chris heff Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I'm sorry but anywhere is better than Orchard Park. I believe the effort to regionalize the team is hamperd by the Ralph's location. I always felt that the selection of Orchard Park, some forty years ago was based on its proximity to Buffalo's more affluent suburbs. Regionalization is the only solution to keeping the Bills in Western NY. Therefore the location of the stadium should be based on accessablility from not only Buffalo, but Rochester, Syracuse, and yes even Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) It seems to me that this has nothing to do with a stadium. They are turning this into a state park. I don't want to make this political. But, I am Republican and vote mostly R across the board, but I always vote for Higgins, because of what he has done for the waterfront. I know he has his haters, including some of my friends, but I argue - who was going anything until he came along? Donn Esmonde agrees: http://www.buffalone...rfront-20130905 There is nothing wrong with using some public money to entice private investments. You get much more in return than what you originally invested in. Leveraging tax dollars to attract outside private money is a smart way to spend public money. As indicated in the Edmonde article the irony is that the catalyst for the acceleration of the waterfront development was when the Bass Pro project finally collapsed. It forced the locals to realize that there was no outside savior that was going to come in and save the day. It forced the local entities to come up with a blueprint and a theme for the land. Ever since they have steadily (not dramatically) added pieces to the point where they have reached the critical mass of action that gives momentum to future action along the water front. As you noted Higgins has done a tremendous job dealing with the complexity of the overlapping and entrenched governances and interests. It took a lot of fortitude and stamina to contend with that scummy muck. It's like trying to run in quick sand. No matter what your political affiliations are you have to respect Higgins for acting in the true meaning of the concept as a public servant. One thing that Higgins is working on and has been for quite awhile is tearing down the Skyway and opening up that land for development. Once that happens it will link the outer and inner harbor. Progress is being made and and as days go by it becomes more visible. Edited September 7, 2013 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 THIS +2 The Thruway along the river IS a joke. Trains however resist climbing grades. Along the water is the lowest most level route. Plus the RR was probably there first Lol Buffalo is one of the flattest cities in the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I'm sorry but anywhere is better than Orchard Park. I believe the effort to regionalize the team is hamperd by the Ralph's location. I always felt that the selection of Orchard Park, some forty years ago was based on its proximity to Buffalo's more affluent suburbs. Regionalization is the only solution to keeping the Bills in Western NY. Therefore the location of the stadium should be based on accessablility from not only Buffalo, but Rochester, Syracuse, and yes even Canada. I agree. If it is really about regionalization to keep the team in WNY, and not some gift designed to enhance the welfare of the residents of the City of Buffalo,I'm not sure if the answer is Canada, or other areas of NYS. If marketing shows you get the biggest bang for the buck by bringing in the Rochester market, then locating it outside of Erie County is the answer, maybe somewhere near the Batavia/LeroyT/Way exits. Plenty of ease of access from the Rochester area and a straight shot down the TWay from Buffalo and Canada. Just make sure there are plenty of remote lots in both Buffalo and Rochester where the Bills could bundle transportation / the tailgate experience with the game day ticket. Both Family atmosphere and Party atmosphere buses, and keep them as separate as possible. Even at the new stadium there should be separation for the families and the partiers as much as possible by it's design and management. The best of both worlds for both segments. Let the beer flow in one part and NO beer in the other part. If Canada gives the marketing a bigger buck, then locate the stadium somewhere along the blighted industrial areas between Buffalo and NF NY. It should not be about what is good for the City of Buffalo, it should be about what will best keep the team in the area and all about the game of Football for the fans. And being located between Buffalo and NF gives easy access to both areas, their attractions, and a whole lot more hotels. Locating it in NF just gives Canada(NF) a bigger boost. Being across the river will be no boost for the US, since NF Canada will drain the boost away from NF NY. Why would anyone choose to stay in NF NY when they can just as easily stay in NF Canada. The choice is easy. As for a Superbowl, it is about the game, not the view. People will come to a Superbowl regardless of the area. The chances of getting one before the probably 25 year average lifespan of a football stadium today is slim anyway. NYC has been the biggest market for years and it just finally got the Superbowl. What are Buffalo's chances of getting it in such a short 25 year timespan if NYC took this long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 There is nothing wrong with using some public money to entice private investments. You get much more in return than what you originally invested in. :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 :lol: :lol: Maybe not in Texas but in many other places local governments have to create incentive zones for development. The town where I live did that along one interstate exit and that few million dollar investment has paid off ten-fold and is still growing. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Anyone ever walk to the FNC during a gale coming off the lake? 50-60 mph winds? Good times. Now imagine trying to tailgate in that... Or trying to kick a field goal in that... Or try to keep that multi-million dollar retractable roof from blowing off. The lake front is about the worst place you could build a new stadium. And when they do build it don't waste hundreds of millions of dollars making it a retractable dome that is rarely used. PTR Where is buffalo, somewhere between northern Siberia and the North Pole? They already schedule the games so there's only one or 2 in December. Besides the winters seem to be getting milder every year. I'm sure tailgating at the Ralph would be at least 40 degrees warmer than on the harbor(sarcasm). And oh gloom and doom the retractable roof is gonna blow right off! Dang engineers! Better do nothing again!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I agree. If it is really about regionalization to keep the team in WNY, and not some gift designed to enhance the welfare of the residents of the City of Buffalo,I'm not sure if the answer is Canada, or other areas of NYS. If marketing shows you get the biggest bang for the buck by bringing in the Rochester market, then locating it outside of Erie County is the answer, maybe somewhere near the Batavia/LeroyT/Way exits. Plenty of ease of access from the Rochester area and a straight shot down the TWay from Buffalo and Canada. Just make sure there are plenty of remote lots in both Buffalo and Rochester where the Bills could bundle transportation / the tailgate experience with the game day ticket. Both Family atmosphere and Party atmosphere buses, and keep them as separate as possible. Even at the new stadium there should be separation for the families and the partiers as much as possible by it's design and management. The best of both worlds for both segments. Let the beer flow in one part and NO beer in the other part. If Canada gives the marketing a bigger buck, then locate the stadium somewhere along the blighted industrial areas between Buffalo and NF NY. It should not be about what is good for the City of Buffalo, it should be about what will best keep the team in the area and all about the game of Football for the fans. And being located between Buffalo and NF gives easy access to both areas, their attractions, and a whole lot more hotels. Locating it in NF just gives Canada(NF) a bigger boost. Being across the river will be no boost for the US, since NF Canada will drain the boost away from NF NY. Why would anyone choose to stay in NF NY when they can just as easily stay in NF Canada. The choice is easy. As for a Superbowl, it is about the game, not the view. People will come to a Superbowl regardless of the area. The chances of getting one before the probably 25 year average lifespan of a football stadium today is slim anyway. NYC has been the biggest market for years and it just finally got the Superbowl. What are Buffalo's chances of getting it in such a short 25 year timespan if NYC took this long? All these new stadiums are about getting you to not tailgate. There is no revenue in making it better for you to enjoy food and beverage you purchased elsewhere. They want you inside spending money. That's why they have multiple restaurants, museums and other attractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Anyone ever walk to the FNC during a gale coming off the lake? 50-60 mph winds? Good times. Now imagine trying to tailgate in that... Or trying to kick a field goal in that... Or try to keep that multi-million dollar retractable roof from blowing off. The lake front is about the worst place you could build a new stadium. And when they do build it don't waste hundreds of millions of dollars making it a retractable dome that is rarely used. PTR Spot on. FWIW, seasons are shifted slightly by the lake (you probably know)... More drastic as you go inland. I think the growing season is a whole month off near Lake Erie from say approx. 40 miles inland @ Wyoming County. That puts the shift favorable for the fall season BUT, you have the wind and moisture over a warm lake. Best place weather wise would be Niagara County (your favored location?)... Niagara and the Niagara Pennisula is better "protected" w/out the Lake's "side-effects." They were raking leaves when that October storm hit in 2006! Even know alee of the lake keeps BFLO "protected" and "tempered"... It is a brutal wind & moisture maker. Just imagine November! Right now December is almost off the table in Orchard Park... Move it to The Lake (Erie) and it almost takes November off the table. Remember, The Lake keeps BFLO cooler in the summer and WARMER in the winter. SNOW does not equate to "cold." Only marginal cold. Nothing like marginally cold fall air moving over a warm lake! Chicago's lakefront is a better location than BFLO's... They just aren't the same! BFLO isn't as blessed. Now in July BFLO is blessed... If they played a summer season, I would say put it by The Lake... Natural A/C! Edited September 7, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 :lol: :lol: https://www.google.com/search?q=global+foundries+1+billion+return+on+investment&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS456US456&oq=global+foundries+1+billion+return+on+investment&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.13667j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#psj=1&q=globalfoundries+billion+return+on+investment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 All these new stadiums are about getting you to not tailgate. There is no revenue in making it better for you to enjoy food and beverage you purchased elsewhere. They want you inside spending money. That's why they have multiple restaurants, museums and other attractions. BINGO! BFLO is the epicenter of the BYO mentality! Dragging coolers around, how is Party on the Plaza working out for that? Heck, head to Darien Lake with your own lunch, cooler, whatnot and they stick you out in the parking lot w/the rusty old shelters next to the stagnant mud swamp & dumpsters... LoL... BFLO is a throw back town... Good or bad... It is what it is. How many people are gonna walk The Canalside and drop serious dough? Lot of people that stayed are like my inlaws... It just ins't in the older crowds blood! Again, it is what it is. I am not being nasty and mean... It is the grim truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 If not in the Falls how about a new stadium by UB? Lot's of access. A little closer to Rochester. The Bulls could share withe Bills. Lot's developement nearby already. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 If not in the Falls how about a new stadium by UB? Lot's of access. A little closer to Rochester. The Bulls could share withe Bills. Lot's developement nearby already. PTR Where does UB play now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Where does UB play now? Amherst, which can be very much protected more than OP and the Lake Front. There is a reason why the natives wouldn't even over winter near the shores! Go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I sure hope they don't stick a stupid stadium there. It should be for a big park, recreation and water craft, etc. I went to Dug's Dive this year and the walking path through there, simply beautiful! So nice, no way should it be for football and a giant ugly stadium to block the view of the lake. Boo!!! If that's the plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Sure has been a while since we had one of these new stadium threads...lol. 1) IMHO if they ever build a new stadium it isn't going to matter where they build it, there is no way a Super Bowl is ever coming! The big corporate bucks want to be someplace so they can blow a lot of money on their clients and live the life of luxury and WNY is not what they are looking for. 2) most likely a new stadium will come with PSL's, let me know how many Bills fans are going to pony up $10,000 for the privilege to buy tickets.3) Who gives a **** about the view? If the team sucks nobody is going to say "well at least we got to see the lake"! 4) PTR's UB idea is intriguing, maybe The Bulls would then go div1 with football and that would get SUNY bucks along with other state funding in the mix. Mike in Horseheads PS- if you want a central location Horseheads would be perfect! Easy access of I-86, lots of farmland to build it on, 2 hours from Syracuse and Rochester, 3 hours from Buffalo and Albany! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Dual useage with UB is smart. Dolphins and The U do it. Those buildings cost like a billion dollars. They need to be used more than eight times a year. By the way that stadium is no where near The U Edited September 7, 2013 by chris heff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Those who are against Orchard Park and tailgating, etc...............Everybody who sits around me from Canada and parts unknown - why do they come to Buffalo for games? The tailgating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR4444 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Serious question: you suppose they paid cash? After a revenue bond issue. and a $2 MM study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 and a $2 MM study and a tax increase.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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