dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) As it turns out, the best offenses in the NFL tend to feature strong TE play. The Bills haven't had good TE play in ages, statistically speaking. In 2012, the Bills TEs had 47 receptions for 584 yards, and they didn't really address the position in the offseason. Plus their one credible TE is 8 plus months removed from ACL surgery. Here is the TE production of the top ten offensive teams in 2012: 1. NE - 115 receptions for 1467 yards 2. New Orleans - 100 for 1065 3. Detroit - 118 for 1221 4. Denver - 98 for 974 5. Washington - 57 for 785 6. Dallas - 126 for 1280 7. Houston - 124 for 1309 8. Atlanta - 99 for 953 9. Tampa Bay - 66 for 618 10. Indy - 73 for 817 My conclusion: to have a consistently effective offense in today's NFL, a strong TE game is basically a must. The Bills haven't had that, and I doubt they'll have that this year. The lack of one is the sort of problem that kills drives. The Bills have been bad for a long time: 2011: 47 catches for 441 yards 2010: 23 for 187 2009: 42 for 374 2008: 58 for 598 (their best season - the vaunted Robert Royal/Derek Schouman/Derek Fine combo) 2007: 56 for 499 (Michael Gaines and Robert Royal each had 25 catches) 2006: 29 for 280 2005: 22 for 156 2004: 34 for 362 2003: 44 for 462 2002: 48 for 491 2001: 54 for 591 (Riemersma's best year - 53 catches) 2000: 42 for 480 I mean, the numbers are just pathetic. They haven't gotten 600 yards from the TE position in this century. Edited September 3, 2013 by dave mcbride
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 PS - I do realize that they spent a seventh round pick on a TE this year ...
BuffaloBill Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 You forget this is a two part equation, if not three. The second for sure is you must have a quality QB to deliver the ball. The potential third is the offensive line has to give time for the plays to develop. The Bills were clearly missing the second piece.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) You forget this is a two part equation, if not three. The second for sure is you must have a quality QB to deliver the ball. The potential third is the offensive line has to give time for the plays to develop. The Bills were clearly missing the second piece. I disagree to an extent. A good TE can mask offensive line problems because TE passes tend to be relatively quick passing plays. The Bills' lack of talent at the TE position has been glaring. Simply compare it to the WR production. WR production isn't great, but it's at least average and they've had some good players in that position over the years. Edited September 3, 2013 by dave mcbride
DallasBillsFan1 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Chan seemed to use Chandler quite a bit, especially in that first game last year (or was it the year before?). It seemed the TE was high on HIS list. Chandler was a stud there for a while. Is he injured? Dude is tall and good at catching ball.
Luxy312 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Bad analysis. Collectively, those teams account for almost all of the top Quarterbacks in the NFL. Show me a list of 10-12 TE's with journeyman QB's delivering them the ball that are performing at the same level. You can't because it doesn't exist. At best, you have a chicken/egg theory argument that you can't really win, when you're only talking about a guy that might catch 100 balls out of 600+ thrown and ignoring another 300-400 carries on the ground.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 Chan seemed to use Chandler quite a bit, especially in that first game last year (or was it the year before?). It seemed the TE was high on HIS list. Chandler was a stud there for a while. Is he injured? Dude is tall and good at catching ball. He looks good to us because he's better than what we've had, but he's a lower tier starting TE even when healthy. He's not that good. Bad analysis. Collectively, those teams account for almost all of the top Quarterbacks in the NFL. Show me a list of 10-12 TE's with journeyman QB's delivering them the ball that are performing at the same level. You can't because it doesn't exist. At best, you have a chicken/egg theory argument that you can't really win, when you're only talking about a guy that might catch 100 balls out of 600+ thrown and ignoring another 300-400 carries on the ground. The Bills haven't gotten 600 yards from the position this century. Let me repeat: this century. Every team listed above got over 600 yards from the TE position last year, but let's extend the analysis to the top 16 teams. 11. SF - 892 yards 12. Carolina - 921 yards 13. GB - 948 yards 14. NY Giants - 661 yards 15. Philadelphia - 870 yards 16. Baltimore - 894 yards Teams in the top half of the league in a random season all managed to do what the Bills haven't been able to do since the last millennium: get 600 yards from the TE position.
ko12010 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Bad analysis. Collectively, those teams account for almost all of the top Quarterbacks in the NFL. Show me a list of 10-12 TE's with journeyman QB's delivering them the ball that are performing at the same level. You can't because it doesn't exist. At best, you have a chicken/egg theory argument that you can't really win, when you're only talking about a guy that might catch 100 balls out of 600+ thrown and ignoring another 300-400 carries on the ground. You also need to factor in offensive philosophy. Again, that's chicken and egg, too, because if you lack talent at TE you're more likely to push your offense in a different direction. We have a lot of offensive weapons besides TE right now. Hopefully Chandler, Smith, and Gragg can contribute, especially in the redzone. We already know Chandler can.
Dean Cain Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 The rise of the TE position is reasons why the Bills have so many safeties on their active roster. Many of Pettine's defensive sets include 3 safeties on the field at any given time.
GG Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I disagree to an extent. A good TE can mask offensive line problems because TE passes tend to be relatively quick passing plays. The Bills' lack of talent at the TE position has been glaring. Simply compare it to the WR production. WR production isn't great, but it's at least average and they've had some good players in that position over the years. I think that you have to almost count David Nelson's numbers with the TE's since his receiving role was more of a TE than a wide out. Even still, I don't know what's been more painful, seeing Bills unable to exploit the middle of the field or watching their opponents do it consistently to the Bills.
RealityCheck Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 As it turns out, the best offenses in the NFL tend to feature strong TE play. The Bills haven't had good TE play in ages, statistically speaking. In 2012, the Bills TEs had 47 receptions for 584 yards, and they didn't really address the position in the offseason. Plus their one credible TE is 8 plus months removed from ACL surgery. Here is the TE production of the top ten offensive teams in 2012: 1. NE - 115 receptions for 1467 yards 2. New Orleans - 100 for 1065 3. Detroit - 118 for 1221 4. Denver - 98 for 974 5. Washington - 57 for 785 6. Dallas - 126 for 1280 7. Houston - 124 for 1309 8. Atlanta - 99 for 953 9. Tampa Bay - 66 for 618 10. Indy - 73 for 817 My conclusion: to have a consistently effective offense in today's NFL, a strong TE game is basically a must. The Bills haven't had that, and I doubt they'll have that this year. The lack of one is the sort of problem that kills drives. The Bills have been bad for a long time: 2011: 47 catches for 441 yards 2010: 23 for 187 2009: 42 for 374 2008: 58 for 598 (their best season - the vaunted Robert Royal/Derek Schouman/Derek Fine combo) 2007: 56 for 499 (Michael Gaines and Robert Royal each had 25 catches) 2006: 29 for 280 2005: 22 for 156 2004: 34 for 362 2003: 44 for 462 2002: 48 for 491 2001: 54 for 591 (Riemersma's best year - 53 catches) 2000: 42 for 480 I mean, the numbers are just pathetic. They haven't gotten 600 yards from the TE position in this century. None of the teams on your list won the Super Bowl last year. You should at least include who the QBs were throwing them the ball and include the QBs total pass yardage for a little bit of context. If the goal is winning a Super Bowl what exactly does gaudy TE pass yardage get you while ignoring over 50 other players that dress?
Doc Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 He looks good to us because he's better than what we've had, but he's a lower tier starting TE even when healthy. He's not that good. The Bills haven't gotten 600 yards from the position this century. Let me repeat: this century. Every team listed above got over 600 yards from the TE position last year, but let's extend the analysis to the top 16 teams. 11. SF - 892 yards 12. Carolina - 921 yards 13. GB - 948 yards 14. NY Giants - 661 yards 15. Philadelphia - 870 yards 16. Baltimore - 894 yards Teams in the top half of the league in a random season all managed to do what the Bills haven't been able to do since the last millennium: get 600 yards from the TE position. Had Chandler not missed almost all of the Miami game and the season ender, he'd have had over 600 yards receiving for the season.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) None of the teams on your list won the Super Bowl last year. You should at least include who the QBs were throwing them the ball and include the QBs total pass yardage for a little bit of context. If the goal is winning a Super Bowl what exactly does gaudy TE pass yardage get you while ignoring over 50 other players that dress? Ravens: 892 yards SF: 894 yards I think that you have to almost count David Nelson's numbers with the TE's since his receiving role was more of a TE than a wide out. Even still, I don't know what's been more painful, seeing Bills unable to exploit the middle of the field or watching their opponents do it consistently to the Bills. He had 31 yards last year, and if memory serves those two catches came from out of the slot. Had Chandler not missed almost all of the Miami game and the season ender, he'd have had over 600 yards receiving for the season. People certainly have excuses for over a decade of failure. 13 seasons running, and no 600 yard seasons for the TE position. This coupled with the fact that the Bills offense has been anemic throughout the entire period save for one half season (2002). Six teams got less than 600 yards from the TE position: Buffalo, Minnesota (Adrian Peterson covers for a lot), Miami, KC, Chicago, and Jax. The rise of the TE position is reasons why the Bills have so many safeties on their active roster. Many of Pettine's defensive sets include 3 safeties on the field at any given time. Yep. You also need to factor in offensive philosophy. Again, that's chicken and egg, too, because if you lack talent at TE you're more likely to push your offense in a different direction. We have a lot of offensive weapons besides TE right now. Hopefully Chandler, Smith, and Gragg can contribute, especially in the redzone. We already know Chandler can. Then maybe the Bills' philosophy is simply wrong. Successful offenses seem to realize how important a TE is. Why the Bills can't figure this out is maddening. Edited September 3, 2013 by dave mcbride
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I think there's something to this. They haven't had a really good one since metzelaars and the numbers prove it. I don't think ya can really blame it on qb, even fitz could throw the short to intermediate routes for the tight end. It's on my draft wish list in 2014 if there's a good one out there. Buddy nix said ya can't fix everything at once. Chandler is adequate at best and will just have to do this year.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Author Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) I think there's something to this. They haven't had a really good one since metzelaars and the numbers prove it. I don't think ya can really blame it on qb, even fitz could throw the short to intermediate routes for the tight end. It's on my draft wish list in 2014 if there's a good one out there. Buddy nix said ya can't fix everything at once. Chandler is adequate at best and will just have to do this year. I agree. Chandler is at least adequate. He's not the answer, though, and the Bills need to address it in the next season or two (preferably next season). Edited September 3, 2013 by dave mcbride
billsfan1959 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Unless I am mistaken, the Bills never got over 400-500 yds from the TE position even with a hall of fame QB (Kelly). I have followed the Bills for a very long time and I cannot recall the last (if any) upper echelon TE? Anyone?
Doc Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 People certainly have excuses for over a decade of failure. 13 seasons running, and no 600 yard seasons for the TE position. This coupled with the fact that the Bills offense has been anemic throughout the entire period save for one half season (2002). Injury is a valid excuse. You chose 600 yards and again Chandler would have achieved that had he not gotten injured.
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