Floridabillsfan1 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I like this signing . He's a solid experienced player and he knows the defense.
DDD Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 He's bringing Kirby the cushion Jackson with him. I thought that distinction belonged to Coy Wire.
Dorkington Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 So if I understand this thread correctly, we should have not signed him, because we should have kept George Wilson, or signed a future hall of famer?
CardinalScotts Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 So if I understand this thread correctly, we should have not signed him, because we should have kept George Wilson, or signed a future hall of famer? ya ha keep George Wilson- sometimes you wonder what the hell people watch
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) I will take Leonhard over the terrible Duke and Meeks combo. But even well on the back nine, Wilson is the better player by a considerable margin. Especially for a defense where safeties have the same set of responsibilities. Wilson had 150 tackles the past couple years playing in an ill-managed defense but his best position was FS and he was miscast because the Bills already had a FS in Byrd. Leonhard is just a centerfielder. It's hard to count him out......the Bills should have never cut him in the first place.....but I just don't see him being able to hold up in run defense or cover a TE as well as Wilson. He's the kind of guy who fits as a reserve on a very good team who can come in at the end and cherry pick a game sealing interception. Giving you four quarters of football....not so much. That said....I expect him will just spell Byrd on once in a while.....I fully expect Byrd to play thru his PF. The thing about Wilson is that his stats were actually pretty good last year (according to Pro Football Focus). If he doesn't drop those sure INTs against the Titans and the Rams - both of which would have won the game for the Bills - I don't see him getting cut at all. They look like terrible plays by him, but it must be said that he was in perfect position on both and he did at least end up defensing the passes. Edited September 3, 2013 by dave mcbride
K-9 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 The thing about Wilson is that his stats were actually pretty good last year (according to Pro Football Focus). If he doesn't drop those sure INTs against the Titans and the Rams - both of which would have won the game for the Bills - I don't see him getting cut at all. They look like terrible plays by him, but it must be said that he was in perfect position on both and he did at least end up defensing the passes. I beg to differ. Dropped INTs don't look like bad plays so much as missed opportunities. At least he was in a position to make a play. His bad plays were every time he was not in a position to make a play. Which was quite often last season and even the year before. He's gotten progressively worse in coverage and progressively slower in covering his deep half. Just not the same player he was a few years ago. GO BILLS!!!
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) I beg to differ. Dropped INTs don't look like bad plays so much as missed opportunities. At least he was in a position to make a play. His bad plays were every time he was not in a position to make a play. Which was quite often last season and even the year before. He's gotten progressively worse in coverage and progressively slower in covering his deep half. Just not the same player he was a few years ago. GO BILLS!!! I'm trying to find the link where he was rated pretty highly on a play-by-play basis last season. It's hard for me to tell on TV how well he's actually playing. More shortly ... EDIT: PFF now charges for that. Unfortunately, I don't subscribe. You'll have to take my word for it that he was rated highly last year. Of course, that doesn't mean that the stats adequately reflected reality. Edited September 3, 2013 by dave mcbride
FLFan Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Yes but it's BADOLBEELZ's (the all-caps name says it all) "informed opinion" that the Skins "kept him" and thus it was a great move. LOL! The Skins had no choice. They were/are in salary cap jail because of the punishment for abusing the system during the strike year. They had no money to sign anyone of any serious note so keeping their mostly washed up players was the best they could do.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 The Skins had no choice. They were/are in salary cap jail because of the punishment for abusing the system during the strike year. They had no money to sign anyone of any serious note so keeping their mostly washed up players was the best they could do. Interesting - forgot about that.
K-9 Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I'm trying to find the link where he was rated pretty highly on a play-by-play basis last season. It's hard for me to tell on TV how well he's actually playing. More shortly ... It it's PFF, save yourself the trouble. No disrespect, but their analyses lack context and I just don't put much stock into what they say. For the same reason player agents don't cite PFF's rankings when negotiating contracts. PFF is great food for fodder for fans, but little else. At least for me. GO BILLS!!!
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 It it's PFF, save yourself the trouble. No disrespect, but their analyses lack context and I just don't put much stock into what they say. For the same reason player agents don't cite PFF's rankings when negotiating contracts. PFF is great food for fodder for fans, but little else. At least for me. GO BILLS!!! I think it was PFF, but it may have been Football Outsiders. I just can't remember. I prefer FO to PFF, but both analyze every play rather than just the notable plays that we mere fans tend to focus on.
Kevin Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Yeah. And though I--by no means--think AW back to CB is a good thing, it beats our present alternative, no? I think that's exactly what is going to happen. I would rather see Aaron Williams at safety but if they only have McKelvin at corner then unfortunately Williams is really the only choice to put at corner cause the rest were absolutely horrendous. I have a bad feeling this secondary's gonna get torched Sunday.
hondo in seattle Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 He started 13 games(played 16) for the #2 Ravens defense in 2008. He started 16 games for the #1 Jets defense in 2009. He started 11 games(played 11) for the #3 Jets defense in 2010. He started 13 games(played 13) for the #5 Jets defense in 2011. He started 1 games(played 16) for the #2 Broncos defense in 2012. Unless he's hit the wall early I'd say this would be a good move. good stuff
BADOLBILZ Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 The Skins had no choice. They were/are in salary cap jail because of the punishment for abusing the system during the strike year. They had no money to sign anyone of any serious note so keeping their mostly washed up players was the best they could do. Yea, I know the DC area non-'Skins fans are sensitive to Redskins praise but the point isn't to extoll the work of Shanahan and Dan Snyder. They didn't do anything extraordinary in keeping useful veterans. It doesn't take a genius to know that you can't expect to replace a number of good veteran players with UDFA's and genuine scrap heap players.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 good stuff I'm not opposed to the move, but Eddie Robinson does come to mind -- a guy that that his former DC (Gregg Williams) loved. Another guy who comes to mind: Pierson Prioleau.
GG Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I'm not opposed to the move, but Eddie Robinson does come to mind -- a guy that that his former DC (Gregg Williams) loved. Another guy who comes to mind: Pierson Prioleau. I hop you mean that - one was a quality role player who served a function as long as he wasn't needed to be the focal spot of the defense. While the other was not.
dave mcbride Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I hop you mean that - one was a quality role player who served a function as long as he wasn't needed to be the focal spot of the defense. While the other was not. My point is that these coaches grow attached to older players who made calls for them in previous stints, and think that they can make up for lost abilities with knowledge of how the D is supposed to run. It often doesn't work, but I'll reserve judgment on Leonhard. Prioleau isn't the best example given that he wasn't old when he left the Bills - 27. He followed Williams to DC, Jax, and finally NO.
GG Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 My point is that these coaches grow attached to older players who made calls for them in previous stints, and think that they can make up for lost abilities with knowledge of how the D is supposed to run. It often doesn't work, but I'll reserve judgment on Leonhard. Prioleau isn't the best example given that he wasn't old when he left the Bills - 27. He followed Williams to DC, Jax, and finally NO. I don't disagree. The only positive I can gleam from this is Pettine probably feels good about his front seven that he won't be reliant on Leonard to be anything more than his on the field assistant coach who'll be in the perfect position for a half dozen turnovers that bounce his way.
FutureBillsGM Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 Leonard listed as 2nd string safety on Bills depth chart ahead of Williams/Meeks.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 3, 2013 Posted September 3, 2013 I don't disagree. The only positive I can gleam from this is Pettine probably feels good about his front seven that he won't be reliant on Leonard to be anything more than his on the field assistant coach who'll be in the perfect position for a half dozen turnovers that bounce his way. Except that Leonard has about half a dozen turnovers in the last five years combined. He has 10 total in his 8 year career according to ESPN stats: 8 INT and 2 Forced Fumbles. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9266/jim-leonhard Pro Football Reference says 8 INT and 3 FF.
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