Negativity

[ajzepp]

having read through this comparison of how Bills fans deal with Pre Season frustration i at not surprised at the arguments

For and Against .

my Dad often told me i overthink things. Probably right . But i can see a pinch of that here.

 

In my overthinking , i would like to believe Coach Marrone ran a game plan . to evaluate personnel . His first ups.

 

He gave them no advantages , ala Wannstache . I think he did the same with offense . Tested the wherewithal, endurance and fortitude . He is still pushing them. And not just physically but mentally . Sure they are tired. he knows that. Sure they are starting to get beat on the field he may have well expected it .

They did reduce penalties a bit. while under a lot of pressure , and they did not give up . sure lots of confusion and did not present well .

 

Isnt this what Marrone has nearly preached. How will they deal with adversity , losing getting a beat ing by a much more physical team up front on both sides of the ball.

the overthinker in me thinks he allowed this at some point in the game . not quitting certainly but not coaching for the win this time.

and checking the vets . Who is going to give 110 when its ugly.

The Lions game is now interestinger then before . Another big physical front to work with.

I am still Go Bills. we set one preseason win record back to the 90s and i was of course hoping to get that other one knocked off from the sixties.

Maybe its easier to be Go Bills. maybe for some not so much. but we are all Bills fans eh?

 

This kid has promise . still needs work of course with play calling and the stack and shed stuff . but he is a bright spot for sure

 

I was skeptical of the kid at first, admittedly...but he's truly proved to be a football player, pure and simple. This is going to be a huge year for him. He'll make mistakes, for certain...but I have no doubt that we'll all be able to watch our next "signature" LB evolve over the next four months - hopefully maybe even five.

[3rdand12]

I was skeptical of the kid at first, admittedly...but he's truly proved to be a football player, pure and simple. This is going to be a huge year for him. He'll make mistakes, for certain...but I have no doubt that we'll all be able to watch our next "signature" LB evolve over the next four months - hopefully maybe even five.

too small we thought . talks funny . will he translate to the NFL.

I have hope and some reasonable belief you might be right. Nix and Whaley musta been giddy watching Manuel fall and getting a trade offer. One of the reasons i think the Bills "luck" has turned. slowly but turned

Edited August 25, 2013 by 3rdand12

[stony]

By the way, it's hardly rational to preordain a coaching staff as being better much less even great without any evidence at all and with what limited evidence has already come in suggesting that perhaps they too won't be what we hope.

 

Irrational is to have these hopes, defend those that made those decisions, and then call for their heads if and after things don't work out as such.

 

Those defending the hire of Marrone are no better or more rational than those making the decision if they too fail here.

 

I gotta say, who on earth is unimpressed with the play of a 1st-team D that has allowed the equivalent of well over 400 net yards per game during the limited time that they've been on the field and largely to backup QBs and no-name RBs? Are hopes for a D playing better during the regular season rational?

 

I don't think so, so why try to turn the rationality or irrationality of things on its head?

 

And why is it irrational to simply discuss real issues with a significant basis underlying them?

 

I don't get it. Rationality says that a team that has never won anymore than a wild-card game against a divisional rival outside the Polian era isn't likely to do it given the current circumstances and that the burden of proof is on the team and coaches to prove differently, not for us to once again buy into their decisions without questioning them and rendering support for what could very well be yet the next in a long string of failures.

 

If that's so, then why is it all but anathema to discuss those things?

 

Food for thought.

 

 

 

Did you actually read and try to comprehend what I wrote?

 

It doesn't seem so.

 

 

 

So what, you can't discuss the team's issues without emotionally caving like a woman, or what?

 

Seriously, I'm not trying to incite you here, but what, really, you are incapable of discussing real demonstrable issues with the play of the team to the extent that you deem it rational only to stick your head in the sand to ignore them with absolutely nothing more than simple hopes that they're unfounded?

 

Is that it, do I understand you correctly?

 

Not sure where you work, but when a significant issue arises do you tell your seniors and all of your co-workers not to worry about it because negativity breeds more negativity? Or do you take it for what it is after discussion and rational intellectual treatment and deal with it straight on?

 

How about your homelife? Speaking generically, what, someone's spouse comes to them with a significant issue and they say not to worry about it because thinking about it in that way will only breed more negativity?

 

So ignorance is bliss in essence, would it be fair to sum your position up as such?

 

If all we're going to do here is dicuss the pie-in-the-sky aspects of the team, meaning largely promises made but hardly on track to be kept, while disallowing real discussion of anything else, what's the point of having a forum?

 

I don't think it's a very "rational" perspective on your behalf. Some might even say it's "irrational" all things considered. But then again it's preseason so it's difficult to see what posters are acting "rational" or "irrational" at this point. Most of us aren't in mid-season form, hence the fine line of "irrationality" being walked on this forum. One can hope that the majority of us remain "rational" given it's only preseason and believe it or not, the team is actually 2-1. Would it be "irrational" of me to trumpet the .667% winning percentage the team currently has?

[thebandit27]

Here's my overall take on attitude:

 

A negative person is goin to look at last night's game and see doom and gloom.

 

A positive person will look at the overall play during the preseason and be optimistic.

 

Bottom line: you are your attitude.

[Kemp]

Seriously?

Congrats on being the third poster to be unable to discuss the points made. Obviously you disagree with something but seem unable to make a rational argument against any of the points. None were unreasonable even if you disagree.

[jaybee]

Would it be "irrational" of me to trumpet the .667% winning percentage the team currently has?

 

Nope. Not at all. This is still the same team. Same talent, and a fair amount of it. Just so happens we played poorly yesterday. I'm still going with 9 wins this year. I'll be ecstatic if I'm right too.

[Kemp]

 

I think Kiko Alonso has looked pretty good so far

 

Fine. I remain on the fence about him.

 

Thanks for taking the time to address one of my points.

[K-9]

Here's my overall take on attitude:

 

A negative person is goin to look at last night's game and see doom and gloom.

 

A positive person will look at the overall play during the preseason and be optimistic.

 

Bottom line: you are your attitude.

 

I appreciate this take, but the idea of critical assessment and optimism aren't mutually exclusive. I can say the Bills were manhandled at the POA on the majority of defensive snaps yesterday and remain optimistic.

 

You're right about attitude. It's a personal choice. And one of the few things in our control at all times.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Heitz]

For those freaking over the lack of first downs (or general proficiency) of the O, you do know an undrafted rookie QB was at the helm for most of the game, right?

 

Everyone knows how hard it is for a rookie QB - even one drafter first overall. I dare say no team wins many games with Tuel at QB and Choice at RB...

[Matt in KC]

Congrats on being the third poster to be unable to discuss the points made. Obviously you disagree with something but seem unable to make a rational argument against any of the points. None were unreasonable even if you disagree.

I was optimistic after reading some of the hype put out by the Bills and by those who watched them at camp. That all evaporated.

Congrats. Do you think the first 2 preseason games were... luck?

 

Hated the drafting of Graham. Hate it more, now.

Why? Because of his first game back where he played a quarter? In my opinion, if they are going to rely on speed for play design, they need at least 2 players who can fill the roll in case on gets hurt. That would be TJ and Goodwin.

 

Very disappointed in how Alonso looks so far.

You're annoyed people aren't giving you a rational response to this? What are you disappointed in? I saw my first couple plays where he didn't look great, which is still very good and promising for a rookie.

 

Wondering if Hughes will turn into Maybin 2.0

Why on earth would you think that he'd perform like Maybin or that it would be a Maybin-like situation if he flames out? I'm thrilled with him so far. What does he have, 1+ sacks pre game so far?

 

Wannstedt was not the problem. He played vanilla because vanilla looks like it may have been the best optiin.

Huh? This is the first game they've played more like last year: CBs playing off and nothing too exotic, including disguising the D. That looks like the best option?

 

How can a team go so many seasons without an excellent linebacker?

I'm hopeful for Kiko, and Lawson, and have been happy with how Moats and Bradham are progressing. Downtin has caught my eye a few times late in games as a young guy adjusting to the NFL.

 

How many players would hurt this team if they got hurt? Spiller has a decent backup and RB is the most overrated position on the field.Having a great RB means nothing in the standings.

I have no idea what you are saying. Losing eny players, especially starters would hurt. EJ, Gilmore, Spiller, Kyle, anyone on the o-line, Mario, or Stevie most of all, roughly in that order.

 

Gilmore would hurt. Maybe a couple guys on the D line. SJ. EJ, even though we have no idea what he is.

 

All that said, they have an outside chance at .500 because the NFL is a game of attrition, so if you get luckier than the other guy with injuries you can still compete.

So all this complaining and you think we could get to .500 with some injuries? That is optimistic!

 

i think the Seriously response by yungmack was about right. If you're just trolling for a reaction, congrats, you got me.

[stony]

Pretty funny stuff since he's a relative. Sorry for your disgust.

 

If you want comments that play like shills for the team, you should start a site called "Buffalo Bills, Rainbows, and Lollipops".

 

Then everyone could post things only related to bad bounces and bad calls and injuries to explain away poor management and execution.

 

By the way, which points were ridiculous?

 

IDK, how you whine during your entire post about how bad the team is and then you casually insert a "well, they could be a .500 club." Kind of contradictory, no?

 

Secondly, yeah it's en vogue to suggest that RBs are overrated. But what evidence do you have that good RBs don't make a difference in the league. We all watched a piss-poor team in Minny last season get put upon the shoulders of a RB and get carried into the playoffs. Please don't try and tell me that the Vikings made the postseason based on large part to the amazing talents of Christian Ponder.

 

Last season playoff team's RBs...Lynch, Foster, Ridley, AP, Gore, Rice, A. Morris. Sorry, running games matter, otherwise GB doesn't take Lacy in the 2nd.

 

And lastly, you're wrong saying the team would be fine if Spiller was hurt and Freddy resumed the lead back role. Just wrong.

 

Other than that, enjoy the season. I hope you can find something positive with the team otherwise it's not really worth the stress and gray hairs it seems to be causing you. Go Bills!!

Edited August 25, 2013 by stony

[dayman]

 

And I'll ask again as I did yesterday, why the !@#$ did we extend McKelvin in giving him a significant amount of money? The guy is a disaster and has been since his rookie year.

 

Now now, McKelvin is useful to have. There's good and bad with him, but we might as well have kept him.

[thebandit27]

 

 

I appreciate this take, but the idea of critical assessment and optimism aren't mutually exclusive. I can say the Bills were manhandled at the POA on the majority of defensive snaps yesterday and remain optimistic.

 

You're right about attitude. It's a personal choice. And one of the few things in our control at all times.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Of course. They looked brutal yesterday.

 

I'm still optimistic based on what I've seen throughout the preseason

 

 

 

A realistic person is going to look at last nights game and think '****, this looks like the same old crap I've been watching the past decade'. Bottom line: the team still has a several issues that were exposed yesterday regardless of it being preseason.

 

I was very positive after the first two games of the preseason, but I came crashing down to earth yesterday.

 

And I'll ask again as I did yesterday, why the !@#$ did we extend McKelvin in giving him a significant amount of money? The guy is a disaster and has been since his rookie year.

 

Interesting, I believe a realistic person would look at last nihht's game a realize that it doesn't have a single thing to do with the last 13 seasons, nor does it mean that the team won't be good this year.

[thewildrabbit]

For those freaking over the lack of first downs (or general proficiency) of the O, you do know an undrafted rookie QB was at the helm for most of the game, right?

 

Everyone knows how hard it is for a rookie QB - even one drafter first overall. I dare say no team wins many games with Tuel at QB and Choice at RB...

Looking at the stats for that game I'd think that any Bills fan would be concerned over the huge disparity in all stats between the teams in that game.

Bills only 8 first downs, 3 rushing, 2 passing, 3 penalty is horrid, VS 27 first downs by the Skins with the 3rd & 4th string QB's, and mostly the back up RB.

While I get that the coaching staff wanted a long look at Tuel (an undrafted rookie QB) in passing situations.... that doesn't explain why the Bills were equally bad at running the ball all game long, and the defense was just as pathetic as the offense.

 

 

Last season the Detroit Lions had the 13th ranked defense in yards allowed, and 27 in points allowed. Their D line gave Pats QB Tom Brady fits in week three. I can only wonder if the coaches will make an attempt to run the ball more in this game to help out the QB's. A strong running game would also help keep the defense off the field all game long.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Preseason wins / loss' blah blah

 

the issue is that the Bills looked good the first 2 practice game. They were not very good yesterday.

 

how can you defend a team with ZERO first downs against 3rd and 4th stringers?

[Kemp]

I was optimistic after reading some of the hype put out by the Bills and by those who watched them at camp. That all evaporated.

Congrats. Do you think the first 2 preseason games were... luck?

 

A couple of points. We all know that Game 3 is when teams go hardest with their best personnel in for the longest period, so that game is most indicative of what you have. No, it's not a guarantee of predictability, but it's pretty concerning that Buffalo kept their first string in longer on both O and D and fired blanks. Under those circumastances to perform like that was an enormous disappointment.

 

Hated the drafting of Graham. Hate it more, now.

Why? Because of his first game back where he played a quarter? In my opinion, if they are going to rely on speed for play design, they need at least 2 players who can fill the roll in case on gets hurt. That would be TJ and Goodwin.

 

I hate Graham for two very specific reasons:

 

1. He was a fumbling machine in college.

2. Under one set of metrics, I believe he was the lowest rated WR in the entire NFL last season.

 

Very disappointed in how Alonso looks so far.

You're annoyed people aren't giving you a rational response to this? What are you disappointed in? I saw my first couple plays where he didn't look great, which is still very good and promising for a rookie.

 

My disappointment with him comes from the hype I read here with some proclaiming that he had a good shot of being Defensive Rookie of the Year. I haven't seen anything anywere resembling that so far. Granted, he might end up good, but the hype made me expect more at this point. He hasn't jumped out as of yet. Maybe he will. No one knows. Maybe I overreacted to the hype by being disappointed.

 

Wondering if Hughes will turn into Maybin 2.0

Why on earth would you think that he'd perform like Maybin or that it would be a Maybin-like situation if he flames out? I'm thrilled with him so far. What does he have, 1+ sacks pre game so far?

 

My fear with Hughes is for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Another team gave up on him.

2. While he may be a good pass rushing specialist, in order to serve in that function you better not leave open spaces in the field when you fail. Players can't survive primarily as rushers unless they are elite at it. If they are not, they usually cause more problems then they help. One report on him stated that he was performing very poorly in other phases of the game. This description reminded me of Maybin, whose stench still remains in my nostrils. He could turn out to be good, but at this point I would bet against it. Certainly I could be wrong, just like anyone who thinks he will be a defensive force.

 

 

Wannstedt was not the problem. He played vanilla because vanilla looks like it may have been the best optiin.

Huh? This is the first game they've played more like last year: CBs playing off and nothing too exotic, including disguising the D. That looks like the best option?

 

I never believed Wannstedt was the problem last year. Yeah, I know a lot of you did. I think our personnel on D was grossly overrated last year and that there may not have been a worse group of linebackers in the league. Except for Gilmore, the corners were a disaster, and the defensive line was putrid.

 

How can a team go so many seasons without an excellent linebacker?

I'm hopeful for Kiko, and Lawson, and have been happy with how Moats and Bradham are progressing. Downtin has caught my eye a few times late in games as a young guy adjusting to the NFL.

 

They may work out but I am glad to see your acknowledgment of the insanely poor history of linebackers on this team. It's good that you are hopeful, but that is far from any verifiable proof. I think Moats has been near nothing except for his hit on Farvre. Bradham is fast but appears slow to react, in my opinion, and reaction time is far more important than speed. Kiko is unknown and I have no opinion of Lawson or Downtin as of yet.

 

How many players would hurt this team if they got hurt? Spiller has a decent backup and RB is the most overrated position on the field.Having a great RB means nothing in the standings.

I have no idea what you are saying. Losing eny players, especially starters would hurt. EJ, Gilmore, Spiller, Kyle, anyone on the o-line, Mario, or Stevie most of all, roughly in that order.

 

What I am saying is that there is a lack of very important players on the team whose loss would devastate them, and not because of great depth, but rather because a lack of excellent players.

 

Gilmore would hurt. Maybe a couple guys on the D line. SJ. EJ, even though we have no idea what he is.

 

All that said, they have an outside chance at .500 because the NFL is a game of attrition, so if you get luckier than the other guy with injuries you can still compete.

So all this complaining and you think we could get to .500 with some injuries? That is optimistic!

 

I stated clearly that they could end up .500 if they stay healthy and other teams don't. If that is optimnistic to you, I am confused about what you mean.

 

i think the Seriously response by yungmack was about right. If you're just trolling for a reaction, congrats, you got me.

 

A pity that if someone questions the optimism based on nothing, that makes them a troll. Is someone a troll when they declare that there is a good chance that EJ and KIko will win the respective ROY awards as I saw posted on this site?

 

IDK, how you whine during your entire post about how bad the team is and then you casually insert a "well, they could be a .500 club." Kind of contradictory, no?

 

Secondly, yeah it's en vogue to suggest that RBs are overrated. But what evidence do you have that good RBs don't make a difference in the league. We all watched a piss-poor team in Minny last season get put upon the shoulders of a RB and get carried into the playoffs. Please don't try and tell me that the Vikings made the postseason based on large part to the amazing talents of Christian Ponder.

 

Last season playoff team's RBs...Lynch, Foster, Ridley, AP, Gore, Rice, A. Morris. Sorry, running games matter, otherwise GB doesn't take Lacy in the 2nd.

 

And lastly, you're wrong saying the team would be fine if Spiller was hurt and Freddy resumed the lead back role. Just wrong.

 

Other than that, enjoy the season. I hope you can find something positive with the team otherwise it's not really worth the stress and gray hairs it seems to be causing you. Go Bills!!

 

You really don't believe that the team that is best through the air and plays D wins? Just about everyone realizes this. Running the ball has become secondary. This isn't really an opinion, unless all analysts have the same opinion and are wrong.

[DanInUticaTampa]

 

Very disappointed in how Alonso looks so far.

 

 

I hated the Alonso pick, but he looks great so far.

[Mango]

I didn't get to watch the game until tonight, it actually wasn't AS terrible as the numbers suggest, for one reason. It looked like we left plays on the field in the first quarter. I noticed the D line was being shaken up quite a bit, Dareus and Mario being used sparingly. Not happy at all. A lot of over pursuit, looking for the big play on D, but really aggressive. Mario and Dareus when lined up next to each other, is the best combo at any position on the team.

[Matt in KC]

 

Very disappointed in how Alonso looks so far.

You're annoyed people aren't giving you a rational response to this? What are you disappointed in? I saw my first couple plays where he didn't look great, which is still very good and promising for a rookie.

 

My disappointment with him comes from the hype I read here with some proclaiming that he had a good shot of being Defensive Rookie of the Year. I haven't seen anything anywere resembling that so far. Granted, he might end up good, but the hype made me expect more at this point. He hasn't jumped out as of yet. Maybe he will. No one knows. Maybe I overreacted to the hype by being disappointed.

 

So forget the hype for a minute. He's a second round rookie being asked to captain the defense (radio). So far the's doing a very good job. DROY is crazy speculation before the season starts, though I'm much more forgiving of baseless optimism than pessimism. i don't remember a rookie LB ever catching on so fast for us. He looks like he's ahead of where poz ever was. It took Crowell what... 3-4 years to start looking like he could compete?

 

--------

Wondering if Hughes will turn into Maybin 2.0

Why on earth would you think that he'd perform like Maybin or that it would be a Maybin-like situation if he flames out? I'm thrilled with him so far. What does he have, 1+ sacks pre game so far?

 

My fear with Hughes is for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Another team gave up on him.

2. While he may be a good pass rushing specialist, in order to serve in that function you better not leave open spaces in the field when you fail. Players can't survive primarily as rushers unless they are elite at it. If they are not, they usually cause more problems then they help. One report on him stated that he was performing very poorly in other phases of the game. This description reminded me of Maybin, whose stench still remains in my nostrils. He could turn out to be good, but at this point I would bet against it. Certainly I could be wrong, just like anyone who thinks he will be a defensive force.

 

He looks good to me, like a real disruptor on defense. We paid what for him? (A 3rd round draft pick who wasn't panning out.)

 

---------

Wannstedt was not the problem. He played vanilla because vanilla looks like it may have been the best optiin.

Huh? This is the first game they've played more like last year: CBs playing off and nothing too exotic, including disguising the D. That looks like the best option?

 

I never believed Wannstedt was the problem last year. Yeah, I know a lot of you did. I think our personnel on D was grossly overrated last year and that there may not have been a worse group of linebackers in the league. Except for Gilmore, the corners were a disaster, and the defensive line was putrid.

 

I do agree our LBs were just aweful. But, I blame the coaches more for sticking with players and schemes that just weren't working. That's how I personally decided they needed to go.

 

-------------

How can a team go so many seasons without an excellent linebacker?

I'm hopeful for Kiko, and Lawson, and have been happy with how Moats and Bradham are progressing. Downtin has caught my eye a few times late in games as a young guy adjusting to the NFL.

 

They may work out but I am glad to see your acknowledgment of the insanely poor history of linebackers on this team. It's good that you are hopeful, but that is far from any verifiable proof. I think Moats has been near nothing except for his hit on Farvre. Bradham is fast but appears slow to react, in my opinion, and reaction time is far more important than speed. Kiko is unknown and I have no opinion of Lawson or Downtin as of yet.

 

We'll have to see how it plays out. So far I've really liked how each of those guys as looked this year, minus a few ugly plays against the Redskins.

 

---------

How many players would hurt this team if they got hurt? Spiller has a decent backup and RB is the most overrated position on the field.Having a great RB means nothing in the standings.

I have no idea what you are saying. Losing eny players, especially starters would hurt. EJ, Gilmore, Spiller, Kyle, anyone on the o-line, Mario, or Stevie most of all, roughly in that order.

 

What I am saying is that there is a lack of very important players on the team whose loss would devastate them, and not because of great depth, but rather because a lack of excellent players.

 

I get what you're saying, but not sure what it means really. We have significant depth problems. We cannot survive a single loss on the o-line IMO. Also add Spiller to your list below

 

Gilmore would hurt. Maybe a couple guys on the D line. SJ. EJ, even though we have no idea what he is.

------

 

All that said, they have an outside chance at .500 because the NFL is a game of attrition, so if you get luckier than the other guy with injuries you can still compete.

So all this complaining and you think we could get to .500 with some injuries? That is optimistic!

 

I stated clearly that they could end up .500 if they stay healthy and other teams don't. If that is optimnistic to you, I am confused about what you mean.

 

We're not far off from each other. I think we're a 7 win team, +/- 2 games. No way can /i see us good/lucky enough to win 10 games, or bad/unlucky/injured enough to win 4 or less. I was surprised because you sounded pretty down on the team, but then mentioned .500, which to me is a big promising step forward.

 

----------------------

i think the Seriously response by yungmack was about right. If you're just trolling for a reaction, congrats, you got me.

 

A pity that if someone questions the optimism based on nothing, that makes them a troll. Is someone a troll when they declare that there is a good chance that EJ and KIko will win the respective ROY awards as I saw posted on this site?

 

Optimism based on nothing is normal and healthy, and pleasant, though yes, it can go too far. That said, you're obviously not a troll with these responses, not just saying things to "get my goat" and waste my time. ROY talk is similar in that it baits people into the conversation. If I felt compelled to shoot them down it would probably tick me off. I don't think there's an overly-positive version of term troll, but feel free to make one up.

 

I think we're running out of colors. Thanks for the dialog.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Matt in KC

[gumby]

 

 

Shut yo mouth, Gumby.

 

 

Really?....yo?....who the hell says yo?