BuffaloBill Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Anybody watching this tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Have it DVRed will watch tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Have it DVRed will watch tomorrow. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm 40 minutes in. Very disturbing and well worth watching thus far. The part about Mike Webster is particularly chilling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 So, how much is the league influencing this "change the Redskins name because it is offensive" talk? Now, I am starting to see how deep this collusion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 So, how much is the league influencing this "change the Redskins name because it is offensive" talk? Now, I am starting to see how deep this collusion is. ? Not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying the league is secretly behind the "change the name" movement? It was a pretty powerful piece of work tonight. The NFL certainly does not come off looking very good. Most of the info here has been covered before on HBO's "Inside Sports" over the years... I had never seen the quote from Greg Aiello telling a reporter, of all people, that there is, indeed a link between playing football and ECT, back in 2007. That they can go back and pretend it never happened is inconsicionable to me. The payout (765 million is peanuts in the bigger scheme...the leauge makes billions per season) is sort of a nod and a wink..."here, take this and run along". Roger Goodell has a tough job, but man, I just dislike him more and more every time I hear/see anything about him. Their 785 million dollar payout, while admitting no guilt is just sad. It is a difficult issue....we are all obviously big football fans..but man, I will think twice about voicing the opinion that guys aren't as tough as they used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Anybody watching this tonight? Yes. The NFL does not look good, especially in the matter of who headed their concussion committee and their conclusions, at variance with un-sponsored research. The tobacco analogy seemed a propos there. And in the matter of acknowledging workman's comp for one player but not looking at others, and acknowledging the link in 2007, then continuing to stonewall. At the very least, the initial brain examinations called for a careful survey of all players active and retired to determine how many of them show any symptoms, not dismissal and disparagement of the researchers. On the other hand....I would like to understand how prevalent or not the symptoms actually are. There are confounding factors...drug use legal and illegal, drinking habits, etc. A full study would be helpful here. Do all OLmen show these symptoms? Many of them have quite long careers. Do all people with the Tau tangles found by the researchers have symptoms? When Frontline has a conclusion they want to sell, they don't say anything untrue that I've ever found but they do sometimes neglect to give a fair portrayal of both sides of the question. That so many NFL physicians and the "NFL concussion committee" refused to talk to them is very telling. It's a shame that the ability to do honest and open work that might help people gets tangled up in league politics and CYA. Some of the articles on the Frontline program website are chilling. Edited October 9, 2013 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yes. The NFL does not look good, especially in the matter of who headed their concussion committee and their conclusions, at variance with un-sponsored research. The tobacco analogy seemed a propos there. And in the matter of acknowledging workman's comp for one player but not looking at others, and acknowledging the link in 2007, then continuing to stonewall. At the very least, the initial brain examinations called for a careful survey of all players active and retired to determine how many of them show any symptoms, not dismissal and disparagement of the researchers. On the other hand....I would like to understand how prevalent or not the symptoms actually are. There are confounding factors...drug use legal and illegal, drinking habits, etc. A full study would be helpful here. Do all OLmen show these symptoms? Many of them have quite long careers. Do all people with the Tau tangles found by the researchers have symptoms? When Frontline has a conclusion they want to sell, they don't say anything untrue that I've ever found but they do sometimes neglect to give a fair portrayal of both sides of the question. That so many NFL physicians and the "NFL concussion committee" refused to talk to them is very telling. It's a shame that the ability to do honest and open work that might help people gets tangled up in league politics and CYA. Some of the articles on the Frontline program website are chilling. I said the exact same thing to my wife (who spent a year at Phillip Morris) last night in watching this--"they must have the same lawyers as 'Big Tobacco', since they seem to have taken a large page of their playbook"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I said the exact same thing to my wife (who spent a year at Phillip Morris) last night in watching this--"they must have the same lawyers as 'Big Tobacco', since they seem to have taken a large page of their playbook"..... Mmmmm, off topic but if any of you here are wondering whether or not to take the BPA-in-plastics stuff seriously, guess where many of the Tobacco Research "scientists" are now...would you believe, doing research to show the "safety" of plastics? Follow the money....getting back to football, though, it's sad because of all the families living with a husband/father who has shown unfathomable personality changes and degradation of skills...if they knew what was coming, could they protect themselves by putting the family's finances in capable hands before the disease progressed, and getting counseling to help the wives and children deal with it? I came out of that special with so much respect for some of the wives and families. One of the coldest things was where Goodel locked the wife of one of the disabled players out of a meeting to discuss head injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac4095 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Replying 10/10 1:30 am. for us who missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The show was pretty damning to the NFl. To play devil's advocate: The evidence while very stark is based on a very small sample size. It was also not evident that anything other than hits to the head were explored as potentially causing or contributing to CTE. The NFL has been compared to big tobacco but this is a reach. Tobacco and it's effects were understood across a sample of millions of people over a long period of time. The NFL and BU study is focused on a very small sample size of relatively young men who were all athletes. The NFL did paint itself into a bit of a corner by initially relying on a panel of its own biased and arguably non-qualified individuals to look at the issue. I think they were guilty of of naively believing their own B.S. Once they bought in then their lawyers did what lawyers do which is to dig in on facts, observations and statements which support their side of the issue. Once the NFL did this they created a scenario where they were left open to attack. Their view was narrow. As a result a rebuttal on narrow but very startling evidence became very powerful. With all of this said. If I had a kid I think long and hard about letting her/him play sports where there are repetitive shots to the head. The evidence while maybe not conclusive certainly does strongly suggest that repeated hits to the head can lead to problems later in life. In my opinion the science has to go further to determine if there are other contributing factors. Finally, the Mike Webster story was heart breaking. Aside from the head and brain issues seeing how his entire body was broken down was jarring. No doubt guys with long careers in such physical conditions pay a high price. It does make the idea that they are very highly compensated for it a potentially acceptable quid pro quo. The difficulty is what happens to the guys who are subjected to it but maybe don't see the payday? One would have to question it all on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm sure the league has counseled management to say nothing of substance on the issue not that Belichick would have offered anything to begin with: @AlbertBreer Belichick asked about the Frontline doc/concussion issue, basically deferred to the medical people. "I'm not a doctor," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 ? Not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying the league is secretly behind the "change the name" movement? Why not? It makes complete sense, considering Snyder's anger about the salary cap punishment, and his obvious hatred for Goodell, which is obviously mutual. This is not simply a grass roots enterprise, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not exactly a surprise: @darrenrovell Told it is not expected that the NFL will be reacting to League Of Denial today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) For those who missed it, it's available in full via this link: http://www.pbs.org/w...ague-of-denial/ Additional Video Interviews: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oral-history/league-of-denial/ Edited October 9, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 for those who have still not seen it (me too), a solid story: http://www.npr.org/2013/10/07/229181970/when-it-comes-to-brain-injury-authors-say-nfl-is-in-a-league-of-denial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NobesBLO13 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Replying 10/10 1:30 am. for us who missed. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Listening to WGR this afternoon Schopp & The Bulldog were at Batavia Downs and interviewed Thurman Thomas. In their interview they asked Thurman if he saw this and what followed was pretty amazing stuff: Thurman said that his first concussion was on the sideline from punter Chris Mohr head butting him, Jim Kelly went back into the 1995 Pittsburgh playoff game after being knocked out, and most troubling that Thurman's 12 year old son has had 2 concussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 For those of you who missed it, the full broadcast is available at front line's web site. I just finished watching it and I have to say I lost quite a bit of respect for the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 For those of you who missed it, the full broadcast is available at front line's web site. I just finished watching it and I have to say I lost quite a bit of respect for the league. I agree, but to a certain extent let's simply not throw football under the bus. Concussions happen in a majority of sport; boxing, mma, basketball, lacrosse, hockey, soccer, etc. While football players endure vicious hits, a hockey player endures collisions at speeds greater than football players and professional hockey players play 5 times more games per season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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