Azalin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 If government taxes a wealthy person and gives the money to a poor person and the poor person uses said money to buy a consumer good the government has created demand...BOOM! See? they're not creating demand. they're taking purchasing power from one consumer and giving it to another. that's not creating anything. and it costs tax dollars to pay bureaucrats to take from one person to give to another, making it a net loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 that money ends up back in the hand of Federal Employee salaries, spent on housing, consumables, etc. How is that any different than regular private employment, if the Government job in question is actually useful/needed? I woudl argue that Government's direct funding of research and new technologies is less productive than Government (again, needed government) employment overall... but that's just me. I get what you're saying that when the government takes money if the form of taxes it doesn't disappear into thin air. But my question is why do we need the middle man? We don't but I know why we do have the middle man. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) I get what you're saying that when the government takes money if the form of taxes it doesn't disappear into thin air. But my question is why do we need the middle man? We don't but I know why we do have the middle man. Do you? Good place to make a Distinction Chef. Oversight for Hospitals and other health related facilties, Government at the State Level: Good Oversight for Food Safety by Government at the State Level: Good Food Assistance, I think charities and other non-profit organization do that better as they know they needs of the local community- do those need to be funded partly by the goodwill of taxpayers? Maybe. But at the very least it would State of Local Taxes. Government Less efficient Tax Collection? With a Flat Tax, it could be mostly automated (maybe it already is)... No Need for 1,000's and 1,000's of collecting jobs. I love generalizations of the top or straight out of my ass, so i am venturing 50% of what Federal Government now does could be delegated to States, privatized or done without. I also happen to 100% agree with we produce alot of People, and not enough Jobs to employ them in a meaningful way. Edited August 22, 2013 by B-Large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Ok, fine, so government does create demand, thank you! For FOOD? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Good place to make a Distinction Chef. Oversight for Hospitals and other health related facilties, Government at the State Level: Good Oversight for Food Safety by Government at the State Level: Good Food Assistance, I think charities and other non-profit organization do that better as they know they needs of the local community- do those need to be funded partly by the goodwill of taxpayers? Maybe. But at the very least it would State of Local Taxes. Government Less efficient Tax Collection? With a Flat Tax, it could be mostly automated (maybe it already is)... No Need for 1,000's and 1,000's of collecting jobs. I love generalizations of the top or straight out of my ass, so i am venturing 50% of what Federal Government now does could be delegated to States, privatized or done without. I also happen to 100% agree with we produce alot of People, and not enough Jobs to employ them in a meaningful way. Well my reply is much simplier. The reason we have a middle man in many areas where it's not needed is that there are a lot of people/industries that have become very wealthy cozying up to our gianormous government. For FOOD? Seriously? Well no, let's think about this. I eat a nice meal. I think about our bloated government and I puke which has now created a demand in my stomach for more food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Well my reply is much simplier. The reason we have a middle man in many areas where it's not needed is that there are a lot of people/industries that have become very wealthy cozying up to our gianormous government. Well no, let's think about this. I eat a nice meal. I think about our bloated government and I puke which has now created a demand in my stomach for more food. Agreed- so is a Ted Cruz really that radical when appears to be a guy willing to challenge the largesse of the social club that is Congress, even at the expense of his own political career? I don't agree with all his policies, but he has even big government Conservatives shaking in their boots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 You don't know economics very well at all Paging Mr Kettle...paging Mr Kettle You have a call on line one from a Mr Pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 not necessarily handicapped. is an IQ of 80 handicapped? is someone with 25th percentile intelligence likely ever to work as a fast food manager? are they likely ever to make more than minimum wagew? by definition, this is 25% of the population and even that number is arbitratry. it may be more like 30-40 that are destined for such work.the current min is $7.25 right? so that's about $1200/mo before taxes. even living alone it's damn near impossible to feed, clothe, transpot and house yourself on that. and a bump in the road or two and your at the title loan place paying 30% interest. the current minimum wage is not a living wage. ridiculous to even argue it. Maybe a couple of more regulations and laws will drive the cost of living down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Maybe a couple of more regulations and laws will drive the cost of living down. Once again let's think about this. If we make everything illegal then eveyone will be in prison and that whole minimum wage thing will be a moot point right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Maybe a couple of more regulations and laws will drive the cost of living down. Not only that, but the world needs ditch diggers too, and ditch digging pays pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Not only that, but the world needs ditch diggers too, and ditch digging pays pretty well. Don't forget the ditch diggers Union Rep, somebody from OSHA to make sure the digger doesn't get hurt, somebody from the Labor Dept to make sure the diggers rights aren't being violated, somebody from the EPA to make sure it's environmentally safe to dig the ditch, and a government contract to advertise the benefits of the hole being dug. And that's just for a hole with a purpose. Imagine the benefits of a hole being dug with Stimulous® funds. We get all the above benefits of a ditch digger plus.. A ditch filler in, a ditch filler in Union Rep, somebody from OSHA to make sure the filler doesn't get hurt, somebody from the Labor Dept to make sure the fillers rights aren't being violated, somebody from the EPA to make sure it's environmentally safe to fill in the ditch, and a government contract to advertise the benefits of filling in the ditch Forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Why ? Why do low skilled jobs and entry level positions not pay more ? (enough to support a family) the question answers itself. . A girl I know quit her new job at geico after just a month, the reason being that by attempting to better herself and family, she bumped up her salary enough to disqualify herself from the public assistance benefits she was enjoying. So instead of her trying to do something with her life, advance in the world and have self pride, she would rather quit and take a lower paying job to qualify for NY benefits again.(discounted childcare, food stamps, wic, and whatever the ny state heathly kids medical benefits are for. She calculated that she lost money by taking the higher paying job with career potential, gave that up for barely above minimum wage. What the !@#$ is wrong here??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 People abusing the welfare state is no reason reform the welfare state A crazy person with a gun is more than enough evidence to restrict the 2nd Amendment Forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 If government taxes a wealthy person and gives the money to a poor person and the poor person uses said money to buy a consumer good the government has created demand...BOOM! See? What, you're afraid the wealthy person isn't going to spend the money? Or are you one of those people whose laughable ignorance leads them to concluded that invested money isn't contributing to the economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Interesting thread as I get ready to pull another graveyard shift as a federal employee. LoL... I am running the quick numbers w/my job and work site: On a job w/regional and national economic implications. @ a site that cost the gov't and taxpayers 6 million to build 50+ years ago. Yet, if closed right now, would cost business 18 million dollars over a 60 day period. Full rehab, to extend another 50+ years would cost an estimated 49 million and presumably rising as the gov't fiddles. That is a hell of a return for my fed wage while getting ready to start this crappy midnight shift. Over the last 50 years, the cost of overhead, wages, maintenance & whatever else has not even exceeded 50 million... Now factor that 10 million in to build the place and we are barely cracking 60 million... 1.6 BILLION in loss to a freeloading red state like Indiana stands to lose in one year w/the shut down of waterbourne shipping infrastructure in the Chicago, Illinois. No wonder Indiana goes to bat for Illinois w/this Asian carp gov't boondoggle looming. The fed has allocated 80 million alone in just the last couple of years on the ghost (carp)! A place like Notre Dame (who delveloped the eDNA detecting technology) are making money hand over fist from the gov't as this testing procedure gets used throughout the rest of the midwest & country. All this money and they they can't even detect if fish are live and swimming or if the positive result came from one of many other reasonable vectors (false positive)! This is really the state of our gov't! Good money after bad money @ the expense of producing (shipping goods to market) with an already built and paid for infrastructure that needs a only a fraction to produce results for another 50 years. That is a million a year invested that would yield 9 million a year for the economy and private industry. 9 times and surely growing... Go figure... Sigh... Edited August 23, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Interesting thread as I get ready to pull another graveyard shift as a federal employee. LoL... I am running the quick numbers w/my job and work site: On a job w/regional and national economic implications. @ a site that cost the gov't and taxpayers 6 million to build 50+ years ago. Yet, if closed right now, would cost business 18 million dollars over a 60 day period. Full rehab, to extend another 50+ years would cost an estimated 49 million and presumably rising as the gov't fiddles. That is a hell of a return for my fed wage while getting ready to start this crappy midnight shift. Over the last 50 years, the cost of overhead, wages, maintenance & whatever else has not even exceeded 50 million... Now factor that 10 million in to build the place and we are barely cracking 60 million... 1.6 BILLION in loss to a freeloading red state like Indiana stands to lose in one year w/the shut down of waterbourne shipping infrastructure in the Chicago, Illinois. No wonder Indiana goes to bat for Illinois w/this Asian carp gov't boondoggle looming. The fed has allocated 80 million alone in just the last couple of years on the ghost (carp)! A place like Notre Dame (who delveloped the eDNA detecting technology) are making money hand over fist from the gov't as this testing procedure gets used throughout the rest of the midwest & country. All this money and they they can't even detect if fish are live and swimming or if the positive result came from one of many other reasonable vectors (false positive)! This is really the state of our gov't! Good money after bad money @ the expense of producing (shipping goods to market) with an already built and paid for infrastructure that needs a only a fraction to produce results for another 50 years. That is a million a year invested that would yield 9 million a year for the economy and private industry. 9 times and surely growing... Go figure... Sigh... What time does your shift start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) he made 10k or about 800/mo. even in rural va, rents are $500-600 for trailers. lets say he had a roomate. so lets say $300 for him. how much you wanna allocate for food and transport, clothes and hygeine? it's gonna be pretty tight if ends meet at all. so that's where the likelihood of subsidy comes from. if you think i meant that the pay for the internship from his cheap employer was directly subsidized, you misunderstood. So you get a part time job to make ends meet. Lets be realistic here also. An awful lot of people in these minimum wage jobs simply refuse to try and strive for better. Not every minimum wage worker is mentally challenged. The ones that have those types of issue should get some help from the government. You can in fact live on these low wages if you are willing to sacrafice. You don't get nice designer clothes, an unlimited cell phone plan, ect. In Chicago we have a St. Vincent DePaul thrift store. I donate stuff to them often. They have very nice clothes there. You can get a very nice used pair of jeans for $2, nice shirts for a few dollars, dress clothes for cheap. Get your self a pay as you go cell phone plan and know those minutes are precious and valuable so don't waste them. You dont get to have a nice lap top computer or ipad with an internet connection, you have to go to the local public library where its free. You don't get cable television. You dont have an automobile or insurance payment every month you buy a monthly bus pass that allows you unlimited rides. You clip coupons to use at the grocery store. You don't get steak at the grocery store. You get beans, rice, eggs, bread, can goods, generic brands of cereal, oat meal, ect. Now you can always try for better and upgrade your life style. The mall I worked at a few years back started off the janitors walking around with a dust pan and broom at $13 per hour with benefits. After about 5 years you were close to $17 per hour. I have a friend that is a security officer at a hospital. Starting pay for a part time security officer is $12 per hour, full time is $15.50 with insurance. My Mom does HR/recruting for a Secruity Company and she says they have Security jobs $10 -$11 per hour and some as high as $14 per hour. All these are entry level jobs that pay more than minimum wage so people can upgrade there life style if they choose. Oh I know what she meant that she didn't know jobs that difficult ever existed. I was delivering newspapers at 12 carrying around a bag of Buffalo Evening (yes evening) News and Batavia Daily on my bike. I had a dog fly through a glass door at me and got stuck in a snow bank and almost run over by a snow plow. I had burn and knife scars on my arms and hands when I was 14. They told her she couldn't drink while working probably so she wouldn't mess up the toilets she cleaned. Did she ask why? If they told me that I'd say "tell you what, I'll drink all day and piss in the toilets and clean them last as I'm leaving." this post ranks up there with one of the funniest I have read on here! Edited August 23, 2013 by tomato can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 What time does your shift start? Graveyard is 3rd shift. Midnight for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 they're not creating demand. they're taking purchasing power from one consumer and giving it to another. that's not creating anything. and it costs tax dollars to pay bureaucrats to take from one person to give to another, making it a net loss. No, two thirds of economic activity is consumer spending and if the wealthy have all the money cars, refrigerators, computers, Iphones etc. will not be bought and all the people that make, sell, deliver and finance those buys will lose their jobs. Rich people don't buy ten iphones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 No, two thirds of economic activity is consumer spending and if the wealthy have all the money cars, refrigerators, computers, Iphones etc. will not be bought and all the people that make, sell, deliver and finance those buys will lose their jobs. Rich people don't buy ten iphones! what the hell are you talking about? can you not even stay on point from one sentence to the next? c'mon....trolls are supposed to be more fun than this. you can't even do that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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