BillsBytheBay Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 As bad as we all think Leo is, is it funny that Pettine has played against him twice a year, for three years, and likes him? I don't know that I would necessarily say he's bad in coverage, at least in terms of keeping up with receivers and staying on their hip/closing quickly enough to make a play. What he does have trouble with is actually making a play. He seems to often be in great position to swat the ball away, or make an interception and it seems like he just misjudges the ball at the last moment. Am I wrong? nope. You're right.
The Big Cat Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 As bad as we all think Leo is, is it funny that Pettine has played against him twice a year, for three years, and likes him? Absolutely not. Through preseason we've seen--in all three phases of the game--what a little coaching can do for talent. This is a chicken vs. egg argument that pops us weekly round here. But in all seriousness, with the exception of a select number of outliers at either end of the spectrum, about 80% of the talent pool in the NFL is roughly the same. So what's the difference between a 2-14 team and a 14-2 team? I'll give you a hint: it aint talent. Talent is something Leodis DOES have. We've always known this. What we haven't had during his tenure thus far: good coaching...until now...hopefully.
Dragonborn10 Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 What other FA CB was available for less money? There is plenty of room under tha cap. He has great speed. We have no one else to play DB opposite Gilmore. We have a host of other worries on this team besides McKelvin. We have no tight ends, 3-4 rookie WR's, a weird mix of LB's, and a SS who can't cover anyone. I would spend your time worrying about those issues and not McKelvin.
Gugny Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 We have no tight ends, 3-4 rookie WR's, a weird mix of LB's, and a SS who can't cover anyone. Ummm ... what?
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 When McKelvin got his roughly 5mil a year, many of us were not happy about it. He was pretty bad in coverage and definitely not someone we wanted as a #2 cover. Most of the rationale was that we actually only paid him 2.5 mil as a cb and 2.5 mil as a returner. From what he showed last year, possibly worth it. Now that we have Goodwin, who I'm going to assume is taking those jobs, is the McKelvin deal still looking okay to you? To me, the only reason it's okay is that we are amazingly shallow at the cb position and don't have any other options at this point. If we did, I'd personally say that the deal was terrible now that we have a possibly even better returned that we are barely paying. I'm pretty sure we could have used that 5 mil to throw at another CB or contributing player. It's all a moot point, but just something I was thinking about They over-estimated the market for free agent cornerbacks. McKelvin was probably looking at half of what he got, but I was just glad that they re-signed a first round cornerback. I never bought that garbage about half of his value being special teams, that ability fades fast, especially with more snaps with the offense/defense. It's going to be one way or another with him, I do not expect him to excel on special teams and be a #2 corner at the same time. As stated, if he is their #2 then he shouldn't be returning kicks anyways.
BillsBytheBay Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 [/size] Absolutely not. Through preseason we've seen--in all three phases of the game--what a little coaching can do for talent. This is a chicken vs. egg argument that pops us weekly round here. But in all seriousness, with the exception of a select number of outliers at either end of the spectrum, about 80% of the talent pool in the NFL is roughly the same. So what's the difference between a 2-14 team and a 14-2 team? I'll give you a hint: it aint talent. Talent is something Leodis DOES have. We've always known this. What we haven't had during his tenure thus far: good coaching...until now...hopefully. it would be awsome to have two first round corners, who play like It
papazoid Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 #1 - McKelvin can't play a lick of cornerback. #2 - he makes $4.25 mil/yr (not $5 mil)3/9/2013: Signed a four-year, $17 million contract. The deal contains $6 million guaranteed -- a $4 million signing bonus and McKelvin's first-year base salary. McKelvin is eligible for an annual $50,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2 million, 2014: $2.1 million (+ $1 million roster bonus), 2015-2016: $3.1 million (+ $750,000 roster bonus), 2017: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4682/leodis-mckelvin #3- his money should have been used on Levitre. #4- now that he is the starting CB, it is unlikely he will return kicks or punts.
BillsBytheBay Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 #1 - McKelvin can't play a lick of cornerback. #2 - he makes $4.25 mil/yr (not $5 mil)3/9/2013: Signed a four-year, $17 million contract. The deal contains $6 million guaranteed -- a $4 million signing bonus and McKelvin's first-year base salary. McKelvin is eligible for an annual $50,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2 million, 2014: $2.1 million (+ $1 million roster bonus), 2015-2016: $3.1 million (+ $750,000 roster bonus), 2017: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4682/leodis-mckelvin #3- his money should have been used on Levitre. #4- now that he is the starting CB, it is unlikely he will return kicks or punts. #1 he can't play the ball in the air, that's it#3 did you see how much $$ Levitre got in Tenn? #4 punts. He'll still do punts
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 #1 - McKelvin can't play a lick of cornerback. I think that's a bit strong. Leodis has always shown the ability to run stride for stride with any receiver in the league. He's often in good position. His problems come when it's time to make a play on the ball. I believe that this can be taught. The speed and hip fluidity to stay with a receiver cannot. I'm hoping that this new coaching staff can do something to improve his ball skills. If they can, McKelvin can still be a good corner in this league.
YoloinOhio Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) When McKelvin got his roughly 5mil a year, many of us were not happy about it. He was pretty bad in coverage and definitely not someone we wanted as a #2 cover. Most of the rationale was that we actually only paid him 2.5 mil as a cb and 2.5 mil as a returner. From what he showed last year, possibly worth it. Now that we have Goodwin, who I'm going to assume is taking those jobs, is the McKelvin deal still looking okay to you? To me, the only reason it's okay is that we are amazingly shallow at the cb position and don't have any other options at this point. If we did, I'd personally say that the deal was terrible now that we have a possibly even better returned that we are barely paying. I'm pretty sure we could have used that 5 mil to throw at another CB or contributing player. It's all a moot point, but just something I was thinking about I think McKelvin is worth the deal beause of the lack of supreme talent at CB across the league. He is very fast and talented, although not as good with coverage/playmaking as what we have seen out of Gilmore which is why he plays the other side and returns punts. I think we will see McKelvin return punts and Flash return kicks. I also want to add that although I also have been frustrated at McKelvin's play sometimes, I wonder how the new defense may help him with the increased pass rush. Before it was like throwing him to the wolves. Edited August 21, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
yungmack Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 I don't know that I would necessarily say he's bad in coverage, at least in terms of keeping up with receivers and staying on their hip/closing quickly enough to make a play. What he does have trouble with is actually making a play. He seems to often be in great position to swat the ball away, or make an interception and it seems like he just misjudges the ball at the last moment. Am I wrong? Nope, that's it right there.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Cromartie was given up by the Chargers & became a pro bowl corner on a better defense. Carlos Rogers was a 1st rounder given up by the Skins. He goes to the 49ers & becomes a pro bowler. You don't give up at elite talent, especially at one of the toughest positions in the game. And he is an absolute game changer on PR. If the Bills had a more competent team, that could win games.
YoloinOhio Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) #1 he can't play the ball in the air, that's it #3 did you see how much $$ Levitre got in Tenn? #4 punts. He'll still do punts I cannot justify the amount of $ Levitre got for a RG. I think Bills did the right thing there. Edited August 21, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
The Big Cat Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 I cannot justify the amount of $ Levitre got for a RG. I think Bills did the right thing there. Right...except...
34-78-83 Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Just re-iterating some previous thoughts, here, but I've always been a believer in McKelvin. The guy has lightning speed and he covers very well. He just needs to turn around to look for the damn ball more. Improved coaching/schemes/pass rush will undoubtedly help McKelvin and Gilmore. I loved the contract extension when it happened and still do. His returning skills are just a sweet bonus. In short .. Goodwin does not make me rethink the McKelvin deal. It's a fair question, though. Go Bills! Well put. agreed
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 I cannot justify the amount of $ Levitre got for a RG. I think Bills did the right thing there. This is the same nonsense that people were flipping out about Tyson Clabo. I really liked Levitre & wanted him back at the right place. But you're RG is not close to the foundation of your franchise. Before this year, guards were never drafted high. There's a reason for that.
Beerball Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 I assume that McKelvin at least keeps punt returns. Color me doubtful. If he plays well at CB I don't think he is a returner. He's got some nagging injuries and there's no reason to 'over expose' him.
YoloinOhio Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Color me doubtful. If he plays well at CB I don't think he is a returner. He's got some nagging injuries and there's no reason to 'over expose' him. I agree with the injury-proneness (word?) but I got a bit nervous with Robert Woods returning punts last week. He is going to be a very important cog in this offense and we have enough bench WRs/DBs to do that. I say throw ol' B Smith out there. Utility man extraodinaire. Edited August 21, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
HeHateMe Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 You would think that one of these years McKelvin would finally learn to react to the ball in the air... I'm not holding my breath. Cover skills are great and everything but mean very little if you can't make a play on the ball... How many times did we see that last year alone?
BillsBytheBay Posted August 21, 2013 Posted August 21, 2013 Color me doubtful. If he plays well at CB I don't think he is a returner. He's got some nagging injuries and there's no reason to 'over expose' him. I don't think you take a chance to score off the field. Leo is a chance to score on every punt. He may not take every punt, but I think you have to use him You would think that one of these years McKelvin would finally learn to react to the ball in the air... I'm not holding my breath. Cover skills are great and everything but mean very little if you can't make a play on the ball... How many times did we see that last year alone? I think someone has already sited examples, contrary to your opinion. Cromarti for one.
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