3rdand12 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 honest question... Would it do any good to do a little bit of breakdown on how SS and FS differ? If so, in this post, or should I create a thread? Quick summary of it: The SS is probably twice the factor of a FS. The SS protects everything under the umbrella, nothing is to pass through his level - between the hashes extending from the OT's in front of the 10 yards he plays. The FS covers anything beyond 15 yards and in most defenses serves as a safety plug - not letting anyone beat him deep. Byrd is more then a safety valve - as he is allowed to ball hawk. (perhaps I will delve in to Whitner and Wilson - the body guard allowing Byrd to free range the backfield at their own suffering - which is why Whitner "sucked" and Wilson was not that good in his last few years...at least the common perception...) What say ye all? Your studies have been very helpful for me personally. and just plain good reads. I took a slightly different perspect on the value as compared to SS , when the whole Byrd's value to the team was running amok with folks taking sides to the extreme. With last year and Wannstadt's infinite wisdom employed being an anomaly (my words ). Byrdin general lets little get past him when playing true FS. I described him favorably as the last line of the defense in most cases and considerd him quite valuable back then. Lets not get into that again . But i will say.. that I bet Pettine is pretty excited about now. A very good showing by A. Williams in camp and now the Byrd in hand might be a tasty recipe indeed for Pettine to dish out. and i think he will fit right up !
Coach Tuesday Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 really disgusted with this "news organization" and their treatment here. Such pity for Byrd among the writers. Graham actually takes the Bills to task for the roster exemption, suggesting the Bills have designs about witholding game checks -- which they aren't even allowed to do, since he reported in time. It's a really strange way to approach this story, and I have lost respect for him for presenting it that way. Really absurd. While I do not blame Byrd for waiting to sign his tender (I would have done the same thing if i were in his position) -- none of the writers seemed to point out that Byrd had a chance for guarnteed money, that would have paid him among the top at his position in the league -- I'm sure the Bills were offering at least top 10 money, if not top 5. But that wasn't enough for him. He chose NOT to sign for what -- 18 million guaranteed? Instead, he wants to be the top paid in the league. If he happens to get injured, he has himself to blame for leaving all lot of guaranteed money on the table. It need not be pointed out that this is a business. Byrd deserves everything he can get, and not a penny more, but if his feelings are hurt, then he's being immature. The CBA is the CBA and that's the way the world works. I work hard in my life and wish I had more money too. I'm not at risk for injury life like he is, but that's the price you pay for becoming a millionaire. Byrd there are no guarantees in my life, or in yours. Good for you that you're in a fortunate enough position to turn down a contract for 15-18 million guaranteed. But it's amazing that this can gain the sympathy of sports writers like that hack Sullivan... of course, let's not forget that this all comes from a tweet by ian rappaport. i don't know who he is. However, I also vividly remembering him reporting that the Bills front office was scared the Jets were going to take Nassib in the first round, and were considering trading up. anyone remember that brilliant piece of journalism. lesson: not everything being reported is true. I thought the Bills should've been more aggressive in trying to lock him up before the deadline. But this is a really good post.
Heitz Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Interesting - on Sirius this morning they said that per an ESPN report the Bills are trying to trade Byrd! Has anyone seen that report out there??
The Big Cat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Interesting - on Sirius this morning they said that per an ESPN report the Bills are trying to trade Byrd! Has anyone seen that report out there?? I imagine it's speculation based on Werder's speculative tweet. Here we go...
Heitz Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I imagine it's speculation based on Werder's speculative tweet. Here we go... Let's hope. It's just like the initial "There is acrimony between the Byrd and the Bills" - I've only seen that reported by (or reports based off of) one person. Not even sure what "Byrd is mad at the Bills" means. So no more Wednesday Nexflix Night at Russ Brandon's house? No more tailgating with Ralph on the bye week? He can't be mad at the coaching staff, they don't do the deals...
The Big Cat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Let's hope. It's just like the initial "There is acrimony between the Byrd and the Bills" - I've only seen that reported by (or reports based off of) one person. Not even sure what "Byrd is mad at the Bills" means. So no more Wednesday Nexflix Night at Russ Brandon's house? No more tailgating with Ralph on the bye week? He can't be mad at the coaching staff, they don't do the deals... I don't know. So much bad information in situations like these...
papazoid Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 watch how slow Byrd looks, gets passed by 3 players.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 honest question... Would it do any good to do a little bit of breakdown on how SS and FS differ? If so, in this post, or should I create a thread? Quick summary of it: The SS is probably twice the factor of a FS. The SS protects everything under the umbrella, nothing is to pass through his level - between the hashes extending from the OT's in front of the 10 yards he plays. The FS covers anything beyond 15 yards and in most defenses serves as a safety plug - not letting anyone beat him deep. Byrd is more then a safety valve - as he is allowed to ball hawk. (perhaps I will delve in to Whitner and Wilson - the body guard allowing Byrd to free range the backfield at their own suffering - which is why Whitner "sucked" and Wilson was not that good in his last few years...at least the common perception...) What say ye all? I would like to read your thoughts. I suggest a separate thread "Role of FS vs SS" or something
The Big Cat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 watch how slow Byrd looks, gets passed by 3 players. Guy digs out cell phone from 2004 to capture video off TV screen, then uses iPhone to capture video off 2004 cell phone screen...
papazoid Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Guy digs out cell phone from 2004 to capture video off TV screen, then uses iPhone to capture video off 2004 cell phone screen... Oct 21, 2012
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I imagine it's speculation based on Werder's speculative tweet. Here we go... It's like a bad game of telephone, featuring a string of horrible reporters.
Matt in KC Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 I aint usually the grammar police, but shouldn't this thread be titled "Byrd signed tenderly"?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Right, but if the gap is closer to the 2m per year, how many injuries would drop an offer say 25%? And wouldn't showing up last year be just as, or really more risky? Are about 10 other agents of top tier players on the tag likewise in the wrong? We don't know what the bills offered but we know Parker screwed it up? Yea I took the comments to the extreme but what's the least Parker should've told Byrd to take in your book? OK, I'll call this a fair attempt to engage. Look, no one but the Bills, Parker, and Byrd know what the Bills offered and what Byrd turned down. Experience says that info which is leaked, usually omits critical details such as how much is guaranteed, how much is incentivized. and so forth. So I think it's pointless to bandy about hard numbers. Let's start with some fundamentals, if there's disagreement there we can agree to disagree. The NFL is called "not for long" for a reason. These are top-notch athletes, and even injuries which are not career-ending can cause a guy to lose a step, and fall from "game changer, top-5" to "top-15" to "solid starter". The guys who are "game changer, top-5" are the ones who command the big $$. So the goal of every smart player in the "game changer, top-5" range is to lock up a multi-year contract with maximal guaranteed $$ while he's in that category. Multi-year contracts per se don't necessarily mean that much as a player can be injured, lose a step, and get cut - it's the guaranteed money and the signing bonus that really matter to the player's long term financial health. A player on a 1 yr deal, if he plays well, can market himself next year. If he's injured, at best he is likely to be offered 1 yr deals to "see how he comes back" or multi-year at lower $$ and with lower guaranteed money and incentivized provisions. Thus any player on a 1 year contract has his financial future at risk, and a really top-notch agent negotiates to keep his player out of that situation. Parker is known in the business for taking a hardball "my way or the highway" approach that demands every penny he thinks his guy is worth and refuses negotiation or discussion. My point is thatapproach may or may not be in Byrd's long term best interest. If he gets through the season healthy, and playing at a high level, he may hit the jackpot. If he gets injured, hindsight may make one of the Bills offers look like a deal he wished he'd taken and he may feel he'd have been better served by an agent who would take the general offer and negotiate for more guaranteed $$, more signing bonus, or some $$ amount in between his offer and the teams. This is true for all the other franchised players working on a 1 yr deal. It's not that their agents are "wrong", or did a bad job. It's just when you put your client in a position where he has no reasonable alternatives and his financial future is at risk, I don't think you can say he did a great job, or a job that was necessarily in the long term best interests of his client, especially if he is a "hardball guy" known for not negotiating.
The Big Cat Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Oct 21, 2012 Even less excusable! It's like a bad game of telephone, featuring a string of horrible reporters. Exactly. It's pathetic.
JohnC Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) honest question... Would it do any good to do a little bit of breakdown on how SS and FS differ? If so, in this post, or should I create a thread? Quick summary of it: The SS is probably twice the factor of a FS. The SS protects everything under the umbrella, nothing is to pass through his level - between the hashes extending from the OT's in front of the 10 yards he plays. The FS covers anything beyond 15 yards and in most defenses serves as a safety plug - not letting anyone beat him deep. Byrd is more then a safety valve - as he is allowed to ball hawk. (perhaps I will delve in to Whitner and Wilson - the body guard allowing Byrd to free range the backfield at their own suffering - which is why Whitner "sucked" and Wilson was not that good in his last few years...at least the common perception...) What say ye all? You bring up a very insightful issue regarding the role of the FS and SS. There are defenses in which there isn't much to distinguish between the roles of the safeties. And there are defenses where the positions are distincly different. What distinguishes Byrd as a player is that he is a good ballhawk who creates turnovers, regardless of how the defense is set. When he gets his hands on the ball he catches it. McKelvin, as much as any DB on the team, is usually around the ball. What he can't do well is react to the ball and catch it. Is Byrd the top FS in the league? I can't conclusively say yes. What I can comfortably say is that he is a top five FS and he is in his prime. Right now he is a more appealing player on the market than two HOF safeties, Polamalu and Ed Reed, who both are on the downside of their careers. Timing is a critical factor determining value in the market. The mere fact that the Bills are willing to use the franchise tage on Byrd is an acknowledgment that they recognize that he is a top tier player at his position. For the sake of making a point if the Bills next year put the franchise tag on him again they will demonstrate that they are willing to pay him at nearly the top of the market. In essence over two years they will have paid him at near the top of the salary range. If they would consider doing that then why not just get a deal done and solidify the position and move on to address other critical needs.. Salaries go up every year. So what you think is exorbitant this year becomes more exorbitant next year. The Bills have been bad for a solid generation. There comes a point where the perpetual cycle of having a good player--only to lose a good player---and then replace that player you had is self-defeating. How about showing some respect for the customers by being proactive in upgrading the dull product. The Bills have plenty of cap space. This troglodyte franchise has at times had an upside/down approach to running a franchise. I have seen time and time again where this ridiculous front office excessively pay for mediocre talent and ruthlessly guard the coin box when dealing with a good player. Kelsay and Fitz were over paid players. If you over pay for talent at least you are getting the services of a talented player. That certainly is better than over paying for a mediocre player that isn't going to provide much return on the investment. The Bills over paidt he market value for Mario Williams. And I am glad that they did! He can make plays. If the Bills slighly over pay for Byrd, so what! His enlarged salary still comfortably fits within the cap space and the team gets better. The organization's mind-set should be about winning; not quibbling over a lost $$$ that has no appreciable affect on the organization. Edited August 23, 2013 by JohnC
K-9 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 watch how slow Byrd looks, gets passed by 3 players. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4HlLct4Ngk In fairness to Byrd, Chris Johnson makes most other players look slow. But if you want to see Byrd being slow, last year's SF game is a good example. On several plays. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 This is true for all the other franchised players working on a 1 yr deal. It's not that their agents are "wrong", or did a bad job. It's just when you put your client in a position where he has no reasonable alternatives and his financial future is at risk, I don't think you can say he did a great job, or a job that was necessarily in the long term best interests of his client, especially if he is a "hardball guy" known for not negotiating. but hes getting somewhere between a third and a half of the guaranteed dollars of a long term deal already. short of devastating injury, he will still get a large amount of money next year - even a torn acl and he will be offered a deal of 5-6m a year easily, with about 10 guaranteed. that would put him at the close of 2 years with 17m guaranteed dollars even with a relatively serious injury. as very few injuries are legit career enders the day you get them, hes in a relatively low risk situation.
Ludwig van Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Reports are saying there is bad blood between him and the front office. So do we trade him or keep him? If we would make a trade what would you expect for compensation?
AReed Deep For6 Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 If he has his mind made up, than yes. Trade him for whatever you can get and start getting his replacement all the reps. Byrd is awesome, but I'm really tired of his b*s. 2nd rounder at least I'd think.
boyst Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) The reports stem from one report by Werder (who btw, is a Cowboys beat reporter...Cowboys could use a FS, too) and a seperate report of more ambiguity by TGraham. It means very little. In the Byrd signing thread I delve in to it... For Byrd to be traded he would have to have a long term deal. No team wants to trade a high draft pick for one year of service. To get a long term deal Byrd and the trading team would have to agree on a contract - a contract we can bet would be among the highest paid safeties in the league. If the Parker/Byrd team is going to agree to the trade team they are going to get a lot of money. Teams that would be ideal: Panthers, Lions, Bears? Are any of those teams a FS away from making the playoffs? Lions, Bears...both looking up at Minnesota and Green Bay. Panthers? Please. So, lets say Parker/Byrd get the Panthers to agree in principle to pay him $9.5mm/year for 7 years. The big word - principle. No deal can be done before with the Panthers while he is still a Bill. And, now you'll say he could sign the contract with the Bills and have it traded. Sure, but why would the Bills be willing to do that? They wouldn't. The Parker/Byrd camp would have the Panthers balls in a bigger vice then the Bills have Parkers/Byrds. See, if Parker/Byrd do get the richest contract in history that would mean Byrd is that amazing - and being that amazing means he is worth several top draft picks. Something along the lines of a 1st round draft pick, 3rd round, and a 2nd round in 2015. Maybe even two first round picks. The Panther would have to give up 3 very high picks, at the least and $9.5mm a year for a FS. That's not happening. Edited August 23, 2013 by jboyst62
Recommended Posts