3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 This is actually a bit of an interesting mini case study going on here. To some, the athlete making millions of dollars is the unreachable peek that they will never obtain and there is a bit of resentment in that. But to others, specifically those so far responding in this thread, they look deeper. Their disdain is towards the NFL and the Teams who make much more money than the player ever will. So in essense, the athlete is the "little guy" and therefore it is much easier to relate to the athlete, being the "little guy", than it is to relate to the NFL or Team. Very interesting discussion so far. AHA. so you have been deciphered. that was easy enough so thank you for being open enough in regard to your perspective s. may i suggest you be patient in the potential conclusions as you delve intio IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microscopes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Here, you are on to something. I don't resent Byrd or any athlete that has made it where he has. We can perhaps resent the value system that leads to him making money that is unattainable for the rest of us, but here we are posting on a football message board in high anticipation of the new season. I have little regard for the owners at this point. I respect what the elder statesmen, including Ralph, did to grow and support the league in its early years, but right now it is an unstoppable money making machine and the owners could hardly be characterized as doing much beyond letting auto-pilot steer this thing into the high seas of profit. You would have to f--- up hard to lose money owning an NFL franchise. The players are the ones who really invest themselves in this game, and they're the ones I'd like to see do well and better their lives. I understand your point of view. I even respect it from a psychological standpoint. But I believe the same can be said for the opposing viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I ask that everyone who responds to a post of mine, please read what I am writing before responding. It's a small request but it would be very beneficial in the long run. I said "concussions are the main reason". Meaning, most of the studies I have seen related to lasting pain after careers is due to chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is a result of repeated concussions. It is not the only reason. But it is more often than not. The assertion that every player lives with pain the rest of their life seems baseless as far as I can tell. The reason we know of Earl Campbell's story is because it is rare, and not the "norm". Unfortunately for Earl, he got addicted to painkillers and was mixing them with alcohol and that can really mess with a person. I believe if that happens Whaley will simply franchise him again. Because he can ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microscopes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 My goodness. Hey, on your way out, look up the word "likely." I'm sorry, but it's not "likely" either. Because he can ? No, because he would get another year of one of the best safeties in the league. I actually agreed with your assessment that they wouldn't do that until a few weeks ago where a few members pointed out the likelihood and the more I looked into it, the more I believed they were correct. Knee and hip replacements, arthritic conditions, addiction to pain killers and other afflictions are common place because their bodies take so much punishment over the course of a career. These guys pay a serious toll for the glory, adulation, and success. Irrespective of your opinion, they certainly deserve to make as much as they can, while they can without ridicule. They deserve to, without ridicule? That is beyond silly in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 They deserve to, without ridicule? That is beyond silly in my opinion. You're entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 This is actually a bit of an interesting mini case study going on here. To some, the athlete making millions of dollars is the unreachable peek that they will never obtain and there is a bit of resentment in that. But to others, specifically those so far responding in this thread, they look deeper. Their disdain is towards the NFL and the Teams who make much more money than the player ever will. So in essense, the athlete is the "little guy" and therefore it is much easier to relate to the athlete, being the "little guy", than it is to relate to the NFL or Team. Very interesting discussion so far. I noticed you have a tendency to proclaim an absolutism when you command only half the knowledge needed for the discussion. The athlete is not the little guy. The athlete is a key participant in the enterprise and deserves to be paid accordingly based on his abilities. But, the league and NFLPA agreed to a set of rules that tip some balance of power regarding select contract negotiation to the owners. Thus I have no problem with the player and the agent exercising every bit of power they have under the established rules to improve their negotiating position for the next negotiation. It is not personal. It is a business. Perhaps you can also break down Bruce Willis's pay compared to the people who watch his movies in the OTW forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 micro - you got some fight in ya, i must say. impressive. right or wrong not revelant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I ask that everyone who responds to a post of mine, please read what I am writing before responding. It's a small request but it would be very beneficial in the long run. I said "concussions are the main reason". Meaning, most of the studies I have seen related to lasting pain after careers is due to chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is a result of repeated concussions. It is not the only reason. But it is more often than not. The assertion that every player lives with pain the rest of their life seems baseless as far as I can tell. The reason we know of Earl Campbell's story is because it is rare, and not the "norm". Unfortunately for Earl, he got addicted to painkillers and was mixing them with alcohol and that can really mess with a person. The addiction to painkillers is the norm. Former NFL players are four times more likely than the rest of the population to abuse painkillers. A quick Google search revealed the following articles, a few with some quantitative research, about what these guys are dealing with post-career. In a couple, players report dealing with multiple severe injuries. http://sportsillustr...ine/MAG1022464/ http://www.cbssports...ing-transitions http://healthland.ti...in-poor-health/ http://sports.espn.g...PainkillersNews http://www.washingto...fetime-of-hurt/ This is all to say nothing of the players with CTE, or players like Steve Gleason whose health issues could be linked to or have been exacerbated by football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I ask that everyone who responds to a post of mine, please read what I am writing before responding. It's a small request but it would be very beneficial in the long run. I said "concussions are the main reason". Meaning, most of the studies I have seen related to lasting pain after careers is due to chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is a result of repeated concussions. It is not the only reason. But it is more often than not. The assertion that every player lives with pain the rest of their life seems baseless as far as I can tell. The reason we know of Earl Campbell's story is because it is rare, and not the "norm". Unfortunately for Earl, he got addicted to painkillers and was mixing them with alcohol and that can really mess with a person. Actually, concussions are not the main reason former players are in pain for the rest of their lives. PCS is probably making more headlines, but there are far more instances of former players living in pain related to muscular and joint injuries than brain trauma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Dear Microsopes. I have and will enjoy your perspect. although you have given yourself away with avatar and words , that just means more good dialogue with the whole members of the forum. Be patient with conclusions good sir . Byrds situation is something that will evolve and define potentially the Whaley regime . but absolutely toss em out there and see who points up the ball ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microscopes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I noticed you have a tendency to proclaim an absolutism when you command only half the knowledge needed for the discussion. The athlete is not the little guy. The athlete is a key participant in the enterprise and deserves to be paid accordingly based on his abilities. But, the league and NFLPA agreed to a set of rules that tip some balance of power regarding select contract negotiation to the owners. Thus I have no problem with the player and the agent exercising every bit of power they have under the established rules to improve their negotiating position for the next negotiation. It is not personal. It is a business. Perhaps you can also break down Bruce Willis's pay compared to the people who watch his movies in the OTW forum. This is the second time you've accused me of not having th knowledge necessary for the opinions I express. The last time, in the Google thread, you didn't reply to my response. I'm not playing your cat and mouse game. micro - you got some fight in ya, i must say. impressive. right or wrong not revelant. I like you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Everything is guaranteed for the season when he signs the tender. And history has shown that players who sit out are more likely, albeit not guaranteed, to get injured. Therefore if his logic is not mitigate risk, then showing up on time would have been beneficial. Back up your claim that he will "be followed by pain that will last the rest of his life". As far as I know, he hasn't received any concussions. Although my memory can be foggy at times. And concussions are the main reason for why football players end up in pain later on in life. That is so categorically wrong I can't believe I am responding to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Actually, concussions are not the main reason former players are in pain for the rest of their lives. PCS is probably making more headlines, but there are far more instances of former players living in pain related to muscular and joint injuries than brain trauma. Indeed. Another GREAT article from a player talking about the absolute brutal nature of the game and its effects on the body: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/13/3179926/dan-le-batard-jason-taylors-pain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microscopes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 The addiction to painkillers is the norm. Former NFL players are four times more likely than the rest of the population to abuse painkillers. A quick Google search revealed the following articles, a few with some quantitative research, about what these guys are dealing with post-career. In a couple, players report dealing with multiple severe injuries. http://sportsillustr...ine/MAG1022464/ http://www.cbssports...ing-transitions http://healthland.ti...in-poor-health/ http://sports.espn.g...PainkillersNews http://www.washingto...fetime-of-hurt/ This is all to say nothing of the players with CTE, or players like Steve Gleason whose health issues could be linked to or have been exacerbated by football. At any one time there are nearly 1700 players in the NFL. Over a decade , there will be over 25,000 NFL players. And you link 5 articles. A couple of them repeated themselves. Point being, you hear about the major cases. You don't hear about the 99% of players who have little or no issues. I'm not sure how this is even a discussion. Factory workers have more inherent risk at present and lifetime than NFL players and are not paid what athletes are. Conclusion, just because you have a job with a greater risk of injury does not mean you deserve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microscopes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Indeed. Another GREAT article from a player talking about the absolute brutal nature of the game and its effects on the body: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/13/3179926/dan-le-batard-jason-taylors-pain.html Did you read the article you linked? Jason is famous for admitting that his pain is largely due to him playing through injuries he shouldn't have. Injuries that doctors advised him not to. That's on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 At any one time there are nearly 1700 players in the NFL. Over a decade , there will be over 25,000 NFL players. And you link 5 articles. A couple of them repeated themselves. Point being, you hear about the major cases. You don't hear about the 99% of players who have little or no issues. I'm not sure how this is even a discussion. Factory workers have more inherent risk at present and lifetime than NFL players and are not paid what athletes are. Conclusion, just because you have a job with a greater risk of injury does not mean you deserve anything. So we're supposed to only focus on the concussion cases because those are the ones we hear about, but ignore the non concussion cases that we don't hear about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microscopes Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Actually, concussions are not the main reason former players are in pain for the rest of their lives. PCS is probably making more headlines, but there are far more instances of former players living in pain related to muscular and joint injuries than brain trauma. You do realize that one of the first signs of CTE is pain and weakness in the muscles and is often misdiagnosed. Right? So we're supposed to only focus on the concussion cases because those are the ones we hear about, but ignore the non concussion cases that we don't hear about? That is not what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 You would have to f--- up hard to lose money owning an NFL franchise. Art Modell says different. kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 You do realize that one of the first signs of CTE is pain and weakness in the muscles and is often misdiagnosed. Right? That is not what I said. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/05/16/do-no-harm-retired-nfl-players-endure-a-lifetime-of-hurt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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