EJ hurt knee according to BB.com

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

Buffalo Bills (@buffalobills) tweeted at 0:04 PM on Sun, Aug 18, 2013:

UPDATED, with more to follow: EJ Manuel's surgery complete, chance to be ready Week 1 http://t.co/sRhAq7Kupg

[K-9]

You say this with such gusto!

 

It's been said already, but evidently you missed/ignored it:

 

He probably would have played one series in the fourth game. Which means he's missing may be a half of football he would have gotten in game three.

 

We still haven't heard definitively that he's not practicing.

 

So--assuming he plays in (at most) three of the remaining eight exhibition quarters, please provide--in detail--what non trivial gains he stands to lose out on.

 

If you like, I'll happily share the risks those three quarters also pose.

 

As long as EJ is ready to take all the first team reps during the week they install the gameplan for NE, I'm not too worried about him missing either pre-season game or the practice reps in between.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[chris heff]

 

 

Camp is over, but pre-season practices then move to Orchard Park, yes? So he is missing more than 3 practices, even if only 3 training camp practices.

 

I'm not a doctor and don't want to play one on the web, but something like torn cartilage in the meniscus (the ring of cartilage surrounding the knee socket) would fit the timeline given and other observations (never seen limping, no announcement of injury during the game). EJ probably woke up with his knee swollen like a melon and screaming at every step, had an MRI and voila.

 

There are qualified orthopedic surgeons who can trim torn cartilage and flush pieces out in every major city, esp. one with medical school. Then you want to control and limit activity to build ROM and strengthen the stabilizing muscles while minimizing inflammation for a few weeks. It's not a big deal but one wants to avoid chance of re-injury and get the inflammation down so likely no practice.

Thank you.

 

I get that they move to Orchard Park, but after last preseason game no more contact, right?

[Chef Jim]

 

I have not had the pleasure. I'm just messing with him. This Manuel thing has made me grumpy. I get what people are saying, but I just want to see the kid play. I think it will be more fun than Fitz 2.0.

 

He's out a couple of weeks not in the morgue. Patience my friend patience.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

This is my take,

The first drive sealed the deal for EJ Manuel and the coaching staff decided he is the real deal. After the game EJ had some slight swelling and he had his knee drained which is "minor Surgery", and as a precaution will sit him for the next weeks game. He was never going to play in the 4th preseason game anyhow. This will give him the staff a chance to see if Kolb is a total bust and if they need to pursue a decent backup. This will also disguise who the QB will be when they play the Patriots.

 

This conspiracy scenario is completely plausible IMO.

 

So, 17 pages ago when some of us floated the idea that he/the season will be perfectly fine, only to be brushed off like some idiotic dust mites...

 

I knew I should have gotten one with a HEPA filter.

 

Wow. A standard procedure that (what seems like all) players get regularly, and its gloom and doom for 3/4 of you.

I bet that 2 weeks of Optimism was really tough.

 

Actually it wasn't really 2 weeks. Didn't you see how many people were saying that the pass EJ missed to Hogan against Indy proved that he wasn't any good?

 

So to summarize...

 

- not all knee injuries are the same

- not all knee surgeries/procedures are the same

- not all individuals recover the same

- we have no idea what the injury is, what the procedure was, or how long he'll be out, other than it was "minor".

 

Got it.

 

Thanks Rubes. This was a much-needed post.

 

Agreed esp. the 3rd game which traditionally the "dress rehearsal". For a vet, not so much a big deal. For a rookie, it's significant.

 

Kolb won't be able to complain he didn't get every chance to win the starting shot.

 

Yep.

 

Again we're having a black or white discussion when we're in a grey area. There's no question that a rookie QB will be set back a bit by missing practice reps. It doesn't doom his season but to think it won't have a bit of a negative effect on his short-term development is stupid.

 

Just so I'm clear, you guys think that the Bills will name a rookie QB who has played in 3Q total of preseason games, is coming off an injury and hasn't practiced in two+ weeks the starter for week one? Right.

 

As just posted upthread, according to the Buffalo Bills, EJ has not been ruled out for week one.

[mrags]

 

 

 

Just so I'm clear, you guys think that the Bills will name a rookie QB who has played in 3Q total of preseason games, is coming off an injury and hasn't practiced in two+ weeks the starter for week one? Right.

yes. That's what I'm telling you...IF...

 

Kolb looks like absolute garbage in his remaining time given while EJ is out. (Likely)

 

And as long as EJ gets almost a full week of practice leading up to the game. (Unknown at this point)

 

[bisonbrigade]

Bills will not add another QB to the roster which is a really good sign that EJ should be OK.

[OldTimer1960]

With this injury, my opinion is that Kevin Kolb should be the starting QB for the season or until he is ineffective enough to be pulled. Manuel needed all of the preseason snaps and practices that he could get to have any hope of being properly prepared for NFL defenses (that are game planning). 3 good quarters in the preseason (2 of which were against 2nd and 3rd stringers) doesn't mean that Manuel is ready for when the bullets really fly in the regular season.

 

The investment in EJ is so big and his potential high enough that they should be sure that he is as fully prepared as possible before putting him on the field in the regular season. Of course, he has to be fully healthy too, but from the sounds of the downplayed surgery I think the biggest issue is that he will miss extremely valuable playing time in preseason games and he will miss important practice time.

 

I'd rather watch Kolb - even if he struggles, than see EJ put in too soon, really struggle and have the fan base turn on him early. I like everything that Manuel has shown so far, but the pent-up frustrations of a fan base that wants immediate success after such a long losing streak could cave Manuel's confidence. I really don't want to see that.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

With this injury, my opinion is that Kevin Kolb should be the starting QB for the season or until he is ineffective enough to be pulled. Manuel needed all of the preseason snaps and practices that he could get to have any hope of being properly prepared for NFL defenses (that are game planning). 3 good quarters in the preseason (2 of which were against 2nd and 3rd stringers) doesn't mean that Manuel is ready for when the bullets really fly in the regular season.

 

The investment in EJ is so big and his potential high enough that they should be sure that he is as fully prepared as possible before putting him on the field in the regular season. Of course, he has to be fully healthy too, but from the sounds of the downplayed surgery I think the biggest issue is that he will miss extremely valuable playing time in preseason games and he will miss important practice time.

 

I'd rather watch Kolb - even if he struggles, than see EJ put in too soon, really struggle and have the fan base turn on him early. I like everything that Manuel has shown so far, but the pent-up frustrations of a fan base that wants immediate success after such a long losing streak could cave Manuel's confidence. I really don't want to see that.

 

I understand the point you're making.

 

It basically comes down to "do you trust Marrone and Hackett to make the right decision?"

[Corp000085]

My take, neither kolb nor Manuel play defense, which has the potential to be a top 3 d. With a stout defense, with a returning stevie, game planning for a run heavy, play action attack, and it doesn't really matter who is in at qb.

 

With that said, this injury/procedure thing is only news cause it is preseason. IMO, Guys don't randomly have knee procedures without a glaring injury. Manuel will be fine, and this giant thread will be a blip in a month.

[mrags]

Don't agree OldTimer.

 

If we put Kolb in until he proves he can't do it and pull him for EJ. Then EJ will still have a learning curve against starting caliber NFL defenses. It's no difference if he starts week 1 without reps or week 4 without reps. He won't be the starter practicing with the 1st team at that point in practice. That would be Kolb if he's starting. And it would really be no difference from what he already faces/has faced in practice going forward.

 

The only way to get EJ ready is experience. The only way to get that is to play. I get your point that hell miss 2-3 quarters of preseason football now. But honestly, if it was that big of a deal that he received those 2-3 quarters of ball to be ready, the. He was farther away than we all hoped anyway.

[OldTimer1960]

I understand the point you're making.

 

It basically comes down to "do you trust Marrone and Hackett to make the right decision?"

 

I am not sure. I do think that the team overall is better this year, but I don't think quite ready to compete (seriously) for the playoffs. Given that, I'd just as soon have Manuel continue coming up to speed in practices and meetings and watching and learning as the backup in the games. If Kolb stuggles and the team starts slowly, they can turn to EJ and he'll be the "hero to the rescue" and fans will have a bit more patience with him than if he starts week one and bombs because the best defensive coach in history confuses the heck out of him and the very young receiving corp. Let the veteran take that on and the heat from the fans. If Kolb plays well, then great. If not, Manuel should get patience from the fans.

[Bangarang]

Marrone was asked if he would hesitate in starting EJ week 1 after coming off an injury and he said no.

 

Said that you play the best players and he would treat it the same regardless of the position.

 

I think that tells you everything you need to know about this QB competition and the severity of EJ's injury. Step back from the ledge EJ is starting week 1.

[OldTimer1960]

Don't agree OldTimer.

 

If we put Kolb in until he proves he can't do it and pull him for EJ. Then EJ will still have a learning curve against starting caliber NFL defenses. It's no difference if he starts week 1 without reps or week 4 without reps. He won't be the starter practicing with the 1st team at that point in practice. That would be Kolb if he's starting. And it would really be no difference from what he already faces/has faced in practice going forward.

 

The only way to get EJ ready is experience. The only way to get that is to play. I get your point that hell miss 2-3 quarters of preseason football now. But honestly, if it was that big of a deal that he received those 2-3 quarters of ball to be ready, the. He was farther away than we all hoped anyway.

 

I respectfully submit that he (Manuel) is farther away than we hoped. He isn't Andrew Luck or RG III coming in and in spite of what those two and Russell Wilson did as rookies, it is still true that MOST rookie QBs struggle a lot. You are right, the experience of starting regular season games will be lost, but he can still have valuable class-room learning with the coaches during game planning and film reviews. While it isn't the same as playing, I think it will help.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I am not sure. I do think that the team overall is better this year, but I don't think quite ready to compete (seriously) for the playoffs. Given that, I'd just as soon have Manuel continue coming up to speed in practices and meetings and watching and learning as the backup in the games. If Kolb stuggles and the team starts slowly, they can turn to EJ and he'll be the "hero to the rescue" and fans will have a bit more patience with him than if he starts week one and bombs because the best defensive coach in history confuses the heck out of him and the very young receiving corp. Let the veteran take that on and the heat from the fans. If Kolb plays well, then great. If not, Manuel should get patience from the fans.

 

It seems to boil down to the question, "do we err on the side of caution or do we err on the side of aggression?"

 

That seems to be a big dividing line for opinions.

[Beerball]

I have not had the pleasure. I'm just messing with him. This Manuel thing has made me grumpy. I get what people are saying, but I just want to see the kid play. I think it will be more fun than Fitz 2.0.

and he's just messing with you

[NoSaint]

It doesn't shock me, but a few times in this thread its amazing how much hate is projected on a guy just because someone else is preferred.

 

I get the distinct feeling there are more than a few that would legitimately be upset with a win week one if kolb was the qb and played well.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Marrone was asked if he would hesitate in starting EJ week 1 after coming off an injury and he said no.

 

Said that you play the best players and he would treat it the same regardless of the position.

 

I think that tells you everything you need to know about this QB competition and the severity of EJ's injury. Step back from the ledge EJ is starting week 1.

 

Did you read his whole quote?

 

Because he also said when asked if Manuel could start in week one:

 

"The problem I have in that is again a lot of it is how he comes back and again there goes the variable thing, when he comes back, did he miss time? No one ever really starts where they left off. We saw that with Kevin (Kolb) and we saw that with EJ. The meaning of what I see so you can get a better insight from myself is, so the first game EJ goes in there and you see early on a little of the footwork, a little of the jitters or whatever we want to explain to it. Then all of a sudden he gets in to a rhythm and goes ahead and starts throwing very well and becomes very accurate. Kevin goes in to the next game and I think we kind of forget and take for granted that someone has been there for seven years or played X amount of years, started some games, but there was still a long window from when he played the last time, which was against Buffalo, until he gets on the field. I think you saw the same type of play early on, those jitters doing that and then all of the sudden he settles down. You look at the last 12 passes, I believe it’s 10 for 12, but it’s a very high percentage, but then he settles down. I think you see the play of whoever it is, EJ coming in, the relief pitcher comes in and he’s ready to go. He’s seen the game he’s more relaxed, I think that happens quite a bit. In the same sense both of those guys, you see the same two things. Those are the variables I was looking at when I was looking at those two."

[Chef Jim]

and he's just messing with you

 

Shhhhhhhh.

[mrags]

 

 

I respectfully submit that he (Manuel) is farther away than we hoped. He isn't Andrew Luck or RG III coming in and in spite of what those two and Russell Wilson did as rookies, it is still true that MOST rookie QBs struggle a lot. You are right, the experience of starting regular season games will be lost, but he can still have valuable class-room learning with the coaches during game planning and film reviews. While it isn't the same as playing, I think it will help.

i would argue that considering him missing field time over the 10-14 days (estimated guess at this point based on rumors) that he will emerge himself in the game planning/film reviews, to make up for it. Nothing is the same as experience on the field. But preparedness is huge. This gives him a chance to prepare. Maybe at night he's watching as much as he can of Pats games to prepare. Maybe the coaches are giving him the Pats game, gameplan now to know it inside and out so that when he comes back for the week leading up to the game it's all second nature.

 

There really is countless possibilities. And that does t even take account for the fact that Kolb might look just as bad as he has so far and in that case there really is no argument. If Kolb continues to stick it up like the other night, I'd rather have an inexperienced EJ in there anyway.

 

My guess is the coaches would too because EJs physical attributes alone give us a better chance to win off broken down plays.