bbb Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Most of it was stuff that I had heard some of been not the full story, so it was really infuriating. Marlin Briscoe was a great QB in high school and college and of course was turned into a DB by Denver, but not before he said give me 3 days at QB to show my skills........Lou Saban then started him after the starting QB back got hurt. He played great. Set rookie records that still stand - even Elway didn't break them. So, what do the Broncos do - trade him to the Bills as a wide receiver. He played one down the rest of his career at QB. He definitely was an excellent receiver. Warren Moon not even getting invited to a camp, much less not drafted, after his career at UWash. Are you kidding me?!? But, the only part that didn't ring true for me was what James Harris had to say about the Bills. He got drafted in the 8th round. He said that for training camp, they set everybody else up in a hotel (maybe they were at that motel in Blasdell at the time?), but he was sent to a YMCA. Supposedly because he was a black quarterback..........But, there were other black players on the team. Why would they only send the QB to the YMCA? And, then he said that gave him a humiliating job - he had to clean the cleats in the trainers room. This all sounds absurd to me - seeing that they made him the starting QB coming out of that camp.........Is my BS detector calibrated right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Racism sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfan62 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Haven't seen this particular documentary but seeing what else went on back then, I don't know what reason he would have to make up additional bad stuff. Also many of his NFL contemporaries are still around today to call him out on it if he did. Buffalo News article critical of documentary Quotes from James Harris, Marlin Briscoe, Jack Kemp, Jimmie Giles, Doug Williams, Jerry Izenberg, and John Rauch on the same subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Haven't seen this particular documentary but seeing what else went on back then, I don't know what reason he would have to make up additional bad stuff. Also many of his NFL contemporaries are still around today to call him out on it if he did. Buffalo News article critical of documentary Quotes from James Harris, Marlin Briscoe, Jack Kemp, Jimmie Giles, Doug Williams, Jerry Izenberg, and John Rauch on the same subject. To the bolded, great point. Eddie Abramoski would know. He was the Bills trainer from 1960 to 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Abramoski I also doubt that Harris is being untruthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Nice, so was Ralph the racist or Lou? I really wonder now. Seems Lou started Briscoe in Denver so.............. All can really think about those years is man we had the players until 67 and then the team just sucked so bad. I usually put it on RW. Harris did well in LA, I remember hating Shaw. James had such a zip on his ball, he would have done great in Rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) I have to say this is on Lou Saban much more than Ralph. Don't forget that when Saban became head coach of the Bills, one of his first big trades was to get rid of Marlin Briscoe and send him to Miami. Briscoe consistently claimed that Saban's racism actively kept him from playing QB at Denver, and that bad blood between them led to the trade. Coincidentally (?) Saban also unloaded James Harris when he took over in Buffalo, and preferred to struggle along with such titans of the pivot as Leo Hart and Mike Taliaferro backing up the inconsistent Dennis Shaw, while James Harris became an All-Pro in Los Angeles. Edited August 16, 2013 by RJ (not THAT RJ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 To the bolded, great point. Eddie Abramoski would know. He was the Bills trainer from 1960 to 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Abramoski I also doubt that Harris is being untruthful. I remember Eddie , my dad was friend with some of his and I met him a couple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I remember Eddie , my dad was friend with some of his and I met him a couple times. I was a classmate of his daughter in Williamsville schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I have to say this is on Lou Saban much more than Ralph. Don't forget that when Saban became head coach of the Bills, one of his first big trades was to get rid of Marlin Briscoe and send him to Miami. Briscoe consistently claimed that Saban's racism actively kept him from playing QB at Denver, and that bad blood between them led to the trade. Coincidentally (?) Saban also unloaded James Harris when he took over in Buffalo, and preferred to struggled along with such titans of the pivot as Leo Hart and Mike Taliaferro backing up the inconsistent Dennis Shaw, while James Harris became an All-Pro in Los Angeles. Could be, damn, I always had such respect for the man.... I guess, I just don't want to hear it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 While racism may be less overt or present in sports it remains alive and present in larger society. Personally, I think we are developing a stronger sense of classism tied to racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Now this does not necessarily mean that Lou Saban was a racist in some universal sense: he clearly got along well with his players, including OJ, and I can't look into his soul. But he certainly appears to have had a persistent bias against the idea of a black man playing QB, which cannot be separated from racist assumptions about different people and their abilities. It is a flaw that he shared with many people of his time and ours. Doesn't make it right, and also doesn't mean it can be explained away. I for one fervently hope that the success of a young man like EJ can help break down such barriers that still exist in people's minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 . Harris did well in LA, I remember hating Shaw. James had such a zip on his ball, he would have done great in Rich. Shaw was Rookie of the year. Harris had no touch and just about put throws thru guys 10 yards away. He really threw an un-catchable ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Racism sucks. Yes it does, but reveling in racist attitudes from 40 years ago never seems to go out of style. I heard they used to make black people sit in the back of the bus too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Shaw was Rookie of the year. Harris had no touch and just about put throws thru guys 10 yards away. He really threw an un-catchable ball Shaw had Moses and Briscoe making incredible catches, but HIS passes were too soft and defenses caught on to this quick. IIRC, Shaw reportedly made some racist comments that upset the team, which contributed to his trade to St. Louis after '73 for 'Bobby Moore'. Harris' arm strength was ridiculous -and uncatchable on short routes. I knew of the issues RJ speaks of as well, regarding 'the Magician' and Saban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Nice, so was Ralph the racist or Lou? I really wonder now. Seems Lou started Briscoe in Denver so.............. All can really think about those years is man we had the players until 67 and then the team just sucked so bad. I usually put it on RW. Harris did well in LA, I remember hating Shaw. James had such a zip on his ball, he would have done great in Rich. Lou was not the coach of the Bills during Harris' first training camp when he was supposedly segregated and given an intern's job. Haven't seen this particular documentary but seeing what else went on back then, I don't know what reason he would have to make up additional bad stuff. Also many of his NFL contemporaries are still around today to call him out on it if he did. Buffalo News article critical of documentary Quotes from James Harris, Marlin Briscoe, Jack Kemp, Jimmie Giles, Doug Williams, Jerry Izenberg, and John Rauch on the same subject. The News article by Pergament wasn't critical of the doc........This commmentor had the same question I did: Michael Morrison • 8 days ago Um, wait. Did O. J. have to stay in a six dollar a day room at the YMCA, too? Didn't the Bills have plenty of other African American players at the time? I'm just saying there has to be more to the story than just James Harris being singled out as the one guy going to the YMCA. Edited August 16, 2013 by bbb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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