BillsGuyInMalta Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 If you don't count the Jaguars or the Raiders, this is a true statement.
Kipers Hair Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Damn, I'd like to be a pauper on the NFL owners club...though, if an owner is in it (at least partially) for the money, moving the franchise is a smart investment move....
boyst Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 This simply means that Ralph has a great accounting and estate planning team.
weehawk Posted August 14, 2013 Author Posted August 14, 2013 Either not enuf coffee today or too much. Make that third-least valuable team in the NFL. Hopefully it means that it wont be such an uphill battle to get a local buyer once RW passes on, which at this rate will be the year 2025.
jahnyc Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 This is interesting. While not bad compared to the numbers for other teams, our debt to value percentage is higher than I would have expected. I was not aware that the Bills had any debt. Maybe they have loans in connection with the renovations to the RWS? The operating income number is worrisome, considering that the Bills have a relative low debt to value percentage. If the team gets sold and our debt service increases, it will be difficult to generate positive operating income based on these numbers.
SF Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 It is interesting to note that Bills have a higher revenue figure than several teams ahead of them in larger markets. Even with the lowest ticket prices, they still do well. I like having the Bills valued lower, it will be easier for a local buyer to purchase them when the time comes.
hondo in seattle Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 This is interesting. While not bad compared to the numbers for other teams, our debt to value percentage is higher than I would have expected. I was not aware that the Bills had any debt. Maybe they have loans in connection with the renovations to the RWS? The operating income number is worrisome, considering that the Bills have a relative low debt to value percentage. If the team gets sold and our debt service increases, it will be difficult to generate positive operating income based on these numbers. Obviously, anyone bidding on the Bills will consider operating income, debt service, and the long term prospects of the region. That latter worries me regardless of the current debt, revenue or anything else. We really have to hope someone local buys the team who will generate enough profit to justify their heart's longing to keep the team in Buffalo. My hope is that there's already a plan in place and the Wilson estate does not resort to open bidding or makes staying in WNY a requirement. In such a scenario, the sales price will end up making sense and allow the owner some positive cash flow. If the Wilson estate entertains bidders from around the country, you're right, the business case for staying in Buffalo isn't very strong.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I posted this link in a thread a few weeks back;http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2013/07/31/billionaire-saints-owner-tom-benson-to-score-400-million-revenue-boost-from-agreement-with-state/. It really speaks to the different ways that NFL teams generate revenue. If the Bills were to build a new stadium up to today's standards (including naming rights) they would move into that billion dollar territory. They will never generate the sponsorship or suite prices of the larger markets but can offset some of that with the Toronto deal. They can remain economically viable for a long time if/when that deal gets done. That is the single most important thing that will happen in the next 7 years. The closer we get to that opt out period the more likely it becomes that the team could move. We have a solid 5 years (assuming Ralph is alive) still to get this finalized. If he passes sooner I do not see much chance of them relocating. No one is going to buy a team and wait 5-7 to relocate them. They certainly are not paying the $400m to get out of the lease sooner when the option to escape the lease moves to $20something million in year 7 we should be concerned.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 It is interesting to note that Bills have a higher revenue figure than several teams ahead of them in larger markets. Even with the lowest ticket prices, they still do well. I like having the Bills valued lower, it will be easier for a local buyer to purchase them when the time comes. These lists are no different from NFL power rankings. Like anything, the Bills are worth what someone will pay for them. Considering they are just one of 32 members of a very exclusive club, that drives up its value. I predict the Bills will sell for well north of a billion dollars when, sadly, Ralph passes on. PTR
eme123 Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 How does Forbes get an accurate valuation without seeing financial statements? This must be just an educated guess.
Lurker Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 It is interesting to note that Bills have a higher revenue figure than several teams ahead of them in larger markets. Even with the lowest ticket prices, they still do well. I like having the Bills valued lower, it will be easier for a local buyer to purchase them when the time comes. They rank 22nd in revenue, ahead of San Fran, Phoenix and Atlanta. That's pretty amazing when you think about it. (If you believe any of the accounting numbers these teams are showing, however, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like you to consider investing in...)
quinnearlysghost88 Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Our revenue is as high as the 49ers.
SF Bills Fan Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 They rank 22nd in revenue, ahead of San Fran, Phoenix and Atlanta. That's pretty amazing when you think about it. (If you believe any of the accounting numbers these teams are showing, however, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like you to consider investing in...) agreed- NFL teams have generally been reluctant to open the books. The Bills are highly secretive. I recall that many years ago, there was a peek at the books and it was noted that Ralph Wilson paid himself a huge salary as President of the team. Even without a new stadium, if the Bills sold naming rights and raised tickets prices by $10 across the board, they would move up several slots.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Our revenue is as high as the 49ers. Yeah, it's pretty tough to make $ in that dump that they play in. When they get into that new place they will jump a bunch of places.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Yeah, it's pretty tough to make $ in that dump that they play in. When they get into that new place they will jump a bunch of places. Still, it's the Bay Area with a ton of people, a ton of money, & an actual winning team. It's very impressive no matter how you slice it. And the Ralph isn't exactly the Jerry Jones Dome either. And they maybe lower down the list but they are still in the top 25% of all sports teams. Edited August 14, 2013 by C.Biscuit97
Mr. WEO Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 22nd in revenue, but only 30th in margin?? Where is all of that money going? The Bills are rountinely in the top 5 or 10 in this category--banking 30-40 million a year. And how did Indy clear 65 million?? They were losing money just a couple of years ago.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Still, it's the Bay Area with a ton of people, a ton of money, & an actual winning team. It's very impressive no matter how you slice it. And the Ralph isn't exactly the Jerry Jones Dome either. And they maybe lower down the list but they are still in the top 25% of all sports teams. It is impressive for sure; Russ is a mastermind. The Toronto series has been a great thing for the franchise's stability. Winning teams and market size do not necessarily have anything to do with revenue. If you don't have the assets to sell you can't make the money (ie PSL, premium seats, extra concourse signage, different areas of the stadium to sell to sponsors, etc...). You can charge a higher premium for those assets in bigger markets. NY generates $50M a year in suite revenue, Buffalo $7m. That drives the salary cap every year. Buffalo cannot generate much more than that but the cap will continue to rise. This was Ralph's contention with the CBA when everyone thought that he was nuts. Edited August 14, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
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