boyst Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I guess I should just give my opening day tickets away.... cancel the season.
Ronin Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 What if Hackett's reasoning was he KNOWS Manuel can throw the deep pass. He does that so well in practice. What if Hackett wanted to see how he handled the short to intermediate passes because that's where he has struggled at times? Hasn't he over thrown recievers on the short to Intermediate passes? I can only go by what others (Astro) say about camp, but that was a vibe I was getting. Maybe its as simple as that? And maybe not. Far too many things re: the Bills have "what if's" attached to them. What if he understands that Manuel is having the defense reading issues that Draft analysts said he did at FSU and would in the NFL, and he's having to dance around that? Again, what if. If I had to guess, the short game was designed for Manuel simply getting his feet wet. They know that they're dealing w/ a rookie QB, the smartest thing that they can do is ease him into the game in the preseason games, even the last one. Could have been a very smart thing. If they had cut him loose and he had failed at his strengths, perhaps it would have worked against them. Who knows at this point and they're not going to tell you the full truth right now anyway. We'll see. If the first team O and D cannot do better against their first team counterparts however in the other preseason games, it will simply show how far they have to go to put a competitive team on the field. Friday's game is next. Let's see.
YoloinOhio Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Well if they had two of them last year, then they can't be 'once-every-twenty-years' type of rookies, can they? kj Yes, they can. They just happened to both be in the draft the same year. Meaning, those types of QBs typically only come along every 20 years. Not my words, NFL analysts.
HamSandwhich Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 And maybe not. Far too many things re: the Bills have "what if's" attached to them. What if he understands that Manuel is having the defense reading issues that Draft analysts said he did at FSU and would in the NFL, and he's having to dance around that? Again, what if. If I had to guess, the short game was designed for Manuel simply getting his feet wet. They know that they're dealing w/ a rookie QB, the smartest thing that they can do is ease him into the game in the preseason games, even the last one. Could have been a very smart thing. If they had cut him loose and he had failed at his strengths, perhaps it would have worked against them. Who knows at this point and they're not going to tell you the full truth right now anyway. We'll see. If the first team O and D cannot do better against their first team counterparts however in the other preseason games, it will simply show how far they have to go to put a competitive team on the field. Friday's game is next. Let's see. Yes, my origional statement was complete speculation and was not meant to be presented as "fact". Just a devils advocate approach.
Homey D. Clown Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 they weren't holding him back in any way, EJ was having a hard time reading past his 1st and second options, but hey, he's a rookie, and seemed to warm up to game speed, he'll be fine.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 The Skins didn't hold back RG III. Indy didn't hold back Luck. Seattle and SF didnt' hold back their two guys. Carolina didnt' hold back Newton. It seems to me they are going to really restrict or 'baby' EJ and I feel that is going to hurt him more than help. Either we picked the right guy or we didn't. Either these guys can coach him up, or they cant. But it seems to me they don't seem to have as much faith in him as the teams listed above did with their Rookie QB's. Maybe its coaching? Maybe Marrone is afraid to let the kid loose I don't know. What I do know is if they keep this overly conservative **** up, we are going to be the same old predictable Buffalo Bills getting their asses handed to them like in years past. Tuel seemed to me to be allowed to do more, go deep etc. It seems our first string still had issues getting to the QB other than Mario's GREAT jump of the snap count and getting luck. And I want to say I am by far one of the biggest detractors of Mario but when we first started the game and he was screaming at the line to shift down impressed me greatly. I loved the fact he was pissed they didn't and he let them know it after the play esp. since he diagnosed the play correctly and had the line shifted, Indy wouldn't have rushed for a first down. Do we have any CB's or LB's( outside of Alfonso and Gilmore) that can cover anyone? WR's and TE's again WAY too wide open today from Indy's first string. What I saw that was good, EJ took command of the offense and lead them on the 2 minute scoring drive. His best pass was not the TD, it was a few plays earlier when he spun from a pass rush and saw everyone was covered and tossed it into the stands. I loved that play. Shows damn good awareness for a rookie. Tuel. Holy crap!!! Mr. Kolb..please bring your overpriced playbook to the office please! Kid has a gun, accurate and read the D today very well. If we can develop this kid, we have a damn salty backup, something greatly needed in todays NFL. I saw WR's getting open! Is this Buffalo? Goodwin!!! My God this kid is going to be amazing for us. I pray he can get a ton of reps on the offense and contribute there like he does on KO's. as for as ST's go, this kid gets a seam...its over. He could literally become the best KO return man in the NFL and break some records. Hey Devin Hester...take notice son there is a new KO return sheriff in town. Overall, shaky start but one of the better complete pre season games we have seen in a long time. I pray we will see this team continue and get better and better. All I know is for the most part it was damn nice to sit back and Watch a Bills game for once. Huh??? frisco didn't start Kaep til mid season year two. RG3 was def held back by shanny through the first season and I've gotta believe the same of Wilson. I would even expect luck was throttled his first preseason game. Relax man. First half of first preseason game. If the team starts losing games that count because of holding back then we can open a gripe session.
HamSandwhich Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 they weren't holding him back in any way, EJ was having a hard time reading past his 1st and second options, but hey, he's a rookie, and seemed to warm up to game speed, he'll be fine. You sound confident that they weren't holding him back. Do you know something I dont know?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I guess I should just give my opening day tickets away.... cancel the season. Agreed... Let me help you find a home for them.... =)
Beerball Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I guess I should just give my opening day tickets away.... Yippee!!!!!!!!
chris heff Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 The things that bothered me had nothing to do with EJ. I thought EJ had butterflies. In the two minute drill he stopped thinking and just played. Everybody wants to add a but to the drive, so I'll add one or two of my own. Yes the drive was against second and third string, but EJ was not throwing those passes to guys named Spiller, Johnson or Chandler, but to Choice, Woods and Dickerson. What did concern was the CB play McKelvin needs to show up. The other thing was the interior run blocking didn't seem to be anything there. I don't think you can bounce everything outside.
BuffOrange Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I love how fans always assume there is one WR option on every play. "Why does our OC only call deep balls for JP & 4yd passes for Trent!?" C'mon. EJ took the checkdown a lot.
K-9 Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I love how fans always assume there is one WR option on every play. "Why does our OC only call deep balls for JP & 4yd passes for Trent!?" C'mon. EJ took the checkdown a lot. This was why I found it impressive. He let the game come to him, took what was there, and made the D pay. I don't care who it was against or what players he had lined up next to him, he QUARTERBACKED his team during one of those crucial times in a game. There is never anything wrong with taking what's there. It's the key to taking what you want later on. I'm anxious to see our adjustments when Hackett actually starts scripting his first 15 or 20 plays. I get the impression EJ can handle it because there isn't any pass he CAN'T throw effortlessly. No wasted time, no wasted motion. GO BILLS!!!
Homey D. Clown Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 You sound confident that they weren't holding him back. Do you know something I dont know? Yes, the plays called were multiple receiver read options, with the dumpoff as the safety valve, he gave up on his downfield receivers too soon early on, and I am saying it's not a big deal due to his inexperience and some jitters. On the other hand, they were holding back a lot of the offense's complexities for both QBs as was the defensive coordinator. How I ascertained this confidence was by watching where EJ was trying to look as the play developed, and before his receiver's routes even had time to develop, the ball was out to the checkdown. This is not a knock on EJ, I think he played quite well not even counting the 2 minute drill, and I credit my opinion to how well he seemed to carry himself and move on to the next play with more and more confidence. This was the first ever NFL game for him and I thought it was a good start.
HamSandwhich Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Yes, the plays called were multiple receiver read options, with the dumpoff as the safety valve, he gave up on his downfield receivers too soon early on, and I am saying it's not a big deal due to his inexperience and some jitters. On the other hand, they were holding back a lot of the offense's complexities for both QBs as was the defensive coordinator. How I ascertained this confidence was by watching where EJ was trying to look as the play developed, and before his receiver's routes even had time to develop, the ball was out to the checkdown. This is not a knock on EJ, I think he played quite well not even counting the 2 minute drill, and I credit my opinion to how well he seemed to carry himself and move on to the next play with more and more confidence. This was the first ever NFL game for him and I thought it was a good start. Thanks for the insight homey! I'll have to replay the game and see if I can see what you're saying. Sounds like you have a lot of techinical football knowledge. Coach?
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 And Luck had the worse stats of any of the elite rookie QBs. Luck set the NFL rookie passing record....on a team with no O-line and no running game.
HamSandwhich Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Luck set the NFL rookie passing record....on a team with no O-line and no running game. I dont think that was in dispute. Also, he's talking presently, not drudging up the past. Are you not a fan of C Buscuit or something?
Homey D. Clown Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Thanks for the insight homey! I'll have to replay the game and see if I can see what you're saying. Sounds like you have a lot of techinical football knowledge. Coach? Little league coach for several years, good catch BTW, but I recorded the game and spent more time than I care to admit watching those first few series haha!! I do enjoy the offensive side of the ball on a technical level and have spent(wasted) even more time over the years learning what is happening once the ball is snapped...
ColdBlueNorth Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I thought EJ did well, and I would rather see a QB that is able to work within the system and not press for what is not there and make a lot of bone-headed mistakes. That (working with what the defense is giving) approach in and of itself is a maturation progress and bodes well for our young signal-caller. Many come in and throw the playbook away and try to impress their peers by doing too much. What some folks see as baby steps I see as a vanilla offense going up against a vanilla defense playing a lot of cover-2 with safeties over the top. The coaches wanted up-tempo, quick hits. The offense was designed to clear the short zones, isolate your primary receiver underneath against either a safety or a linebacker and take that 4-5 yard gain with whatever YAC they could get. What has worked for New England time and time again with Welker and their TE's should not be scoffed at. Even if this was not the vanilla preseason, the concept remains the same. That concept being that the underneath quick hitters work as long as your QB is able to hit the long one behind defenders or the soft spots between zones and make them pay if they start to put more players in a shallow zone and go man/press single coverage on the outside to bring more defenders into the box. A QB has to make them respect the big play. With the speed the Bills have at receiver on the outside, even if teams go man on the outside I would expect pretty significant cushions and easy yards on quick slants, comeback routes, and hitches this year. If our two outside speedsters make enough plays deep then things will really open up underneath for our inside receiver which seems to be Woods or Johnson, and it will free up Spiller for run and pass. It was Fitz's inability to connect on those longer passes that allowed DCs to simply go man on the outside on us and focus on taking away a lot of the underneath stuff.
Wayne Cubed Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I love how fans always assume there is one WR option on every play. "Why does our OC only call deep balls for JP & 4yd passes for Trent!?" C'mon. EJ took the checkdown a lot. Apparently you missed Marrone's press conference after the game were he acknowledge that he had to speak to Hackett, at the half, about calling more go routes and airing it out. Suppose you'll chalk that up to Marrone lying to save face for his young QB...
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