yall Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 I was most impressed by how Manuel and Tuel ran a no-huddle offense all day. Some of their early throws looked a little shaky but when they got warmed up they looked like pro QB's making those throws. This. With 2 rookie quarterbacks playing an entire game, I would have expected more false starts, delay of game penalties, and just the occasion spot of confusion and/or bewilderment. The fact that there was virtually none of the above should speak to the preparedness of the players, which in turn is certainly reflective upon the coaching staff. Well done!
Orton's Arm Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Great thread as usual Bill. I have a few thoughts on the QB situation: 1) Preseason play means simplified offenses going up against simplified defenses. Losman and Trent Edwards have both had good to very good preseasons. The nature of preseason helped mask their biggest deficiency--the inability to process large amounts of information quickly. That being said, Manuel looks like he's on or ahead of the schedule the coaches envisioned for him back when he was drafted. Tuel seems to have significantly better accuracy and physical tuels than Fitzpatrick. Kolb should be #3 on the depth chart, or released outright. Tuel should be given a chance to compete for the starting position.
Prickly Pete Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Great thread as usual Bill. I have a few thoughts on the QB situation: 1) Preseason play means simplified offenses going up against simplified defenses. Losman and Trent Edwards have both had good to very good preseasons. No, they didn't.
BuffOrange Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) You can easily be burned by this as well. Just look at the Seahawks playoff loss to Altanta last year. They were in a similar situation at the end of the first half and went for it and didn't get it. They ended up losing by 2. Altanta got the ball very late down by 1. All they needed was a FG. If Seattle takes that FG, Falcons now need a TD. That 3 would have been nice to have at that point. I admit it, I'm old school. I studied under the Tom Landry school of coaching. When it's 4th down, you kick 98% of the time. Take the points especially in the first half. Yah I mean it's super easy to cherry-pick anecdotal examples. The nice thing about old school is that because it's conventional & most announcers were brought up the same way, it's never criticized in the media; and thus there's a huge built in memory/selection bias. I mean most football fans still remember Emmitt Smith getting stuffed on 4th down in Philadelphia in a 1995 reg. season game. But nobody remembers Ron Rivera punting a game away like a wimp in Atlanta last year on 4th&inches with the best short yardage QB in NFL history. People instead blame the Panthers defense for not making a stop - but nobody ever puts that same accountability on the players when an "aggressive" playcall doesn't work out - that's always the coach's fault. Meh, whatever. Edited August 12, 2013 by BuffOrange
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Great thread as usual Bill. I have a few thoughts on the QB situation: 1) Preseason play means simplified offenses going up against simplified defenses. Losman and Trent Edwards have both had good to very good preseasons. The nature of preseason helped mask their biggest deficiency--the inability to process large amounts of information quickly. That being said, Manuel looks like he's on or ahead of the schedule the coaches envisioned for him back when he was drafted. Tuel seems to have significantly better accuracy and physical tuels than Fitzpatrick. Kolb should be #3 on the depth chart, or released outright. Tuel should be given a chance to compete for the starting position. Really? I liked him a lot. But really? Taking into consideration everything. Really?
Orton's Arm Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Really? I liked him a lot. But really? Taking into consideration everything. Really? There are different ways of looking at things. According to conventional wisdom, Kolb should be more reliable than Manuel or Tuel, because Kolb is the veteran. Manuel should be better than Tuel, because Manuel is the first round pick; Tuel a rookie UDFA. Another way of looking at things is to ignore things like contract size, draft status, rookie/veteran status, and all that, and look only at what players show on the field. Nothing else. If you look only at that, then Manuel and Tuel deserve to be competing for the starting spot, and Kolb does not.
JohnC Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 There are different ways of looking at things. According to conventional wisdom, Kolb should be more reliable than Manuel or Tuel, because Kolb is the veteran. Manuel should be better than Tuel, because Manuel is the first round pick; Tuel a rookie UDFA. Another way of looking at things is to ignore things like contract size, draft status, rookie/veteran status, and all that, and look only at what players show on the field. Nothing else. If you look only at that, then Manuel and Tuel deserve to be competing for the starting spot, and Kolb does not. Aren't you being a little quick on making your assessment on Kolb and his place on the roster? There is no doubt that EJ should start if he is prepared enough to handle the position. No one is arguing that the organization isn't invested in him as the franchise qb. However, jumping on the Tuel bandwagon off of the first preseason game in which he played against the scrubs is overreaching. From the little that I watched of this game I liked how Tuel handled himself. He looked like an accurate Fitz. But for me it is too much of a risk not having a veteran qb on the roster Before Kolb joined this team I'm confident that this front office told him that they were going to draft their futrue franchise qb in this draft and that his role was to be supportive of the young prospect. Kolb is smart enough to understand what his role is and what he needs to do to remain on the roster. In my view havng Kolb as a backup would be an asset for Manuel and his development.
Cereal Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 7) This team has some receivers, no? There are too many to keep. Seriously, they were doing this without Stevie Johnson taking away coverage. They can't keep them all, and I hope that they are able to get draft picks for a couple of them. As a Bills Fan, this was actually strange to watch. I've heard this suggested at least one other time as well... Can someone explain how we could possibly turn a surplus of receivers into draft picks? Wouldn't we have to trade them before the 53-man deadline, since after that, any team can poach them (even if we place the extra one or two on the practice squad)? (Or alternatively, keep an extra or two on the 53-man roster, which does not seem common.) By the way, this is a serious question... Thanks!
Bill from NYC Posted August 13, 2013 Author Posted August 13, 2013 From the little that I watched of this game I liked how Tuel handled himself. He looked like an accurate Fitz. John, imo, Tuel looked like a pre-injury Trent Edwards. There are, believe it or not, good things about this. This kid looks to be accurate. And like Fitz with SJ, he appears to have practiced quite a bit with Easley. This is all good imo. I want EJ to start and develop, and I think that Tuel is a great player to have around in case of injury. I've heard this suggested at least one other time as well... Can someone explain how we could possibly turn a surplus of receivers into draft picks? Wouldn't we have to trade them before the 53-man deadline, since after that, any team can poach them (even if we place the extra one or two on the practice squad)? (Or alternatively, keep an extra or two on the 53-man roster, which does not seem common.) By the way, this is a serious question... Thanks! This was only one game, but our receivers were getting open, holding the football, catching first down passes and touchdowns, and running back kicks in an off the charts way. This without SJ to draw away coverage. Players get hurt. If a team really needs a receiver I am hoping that they will look in our direction.
yungmack Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Very pleased with Sunday's results but I think I will wait a teensy while longer before joining the "cut Kolb," or "make Tuel the starter" parade.
Orton's Arm Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Aren't you being a little quick on making your assessment on Kolb and his place on the roster? There is no doubt that EJ should start if he is prepared enough to handle the position. No one is arguing that the organization isn't invested in him as the franchise qb. However, jumping on the Tuel bandwagon off of the first preseason game in which he played against the scrubs is overreaching. From the little that I watched of this game I liked how Tuel handled himself. He looked like an accurate Fitz. But for me it is too much of a risk not having a veteran qb on the roster Before Kolb joined this team I'm confident that this front office told him that they were going to draft their futrue franchise qb in this draft and that his role was to be supportive of the young prospect. Kolb is smart enough to understand what his role is and what he needs to do to remain on the roster. In my view havng Kolb as a backup would be an asset for Manuel and his development. > Aren't you being a little quick on making your assessment on Kolb and his place on the roster? You could be right. I was against the Kolb signing from the beginning, which may mean I'm not giving him a fair shake now. If from this point forward he outplays both Manuel and Tuel, I wouldn't object to his re-inclusion in a competition for the starting spot. > However, jumping on the Tuel bandwagon off of the first preseason game in which he played against the scrubs is overreaching. I was not overreaching. If Tuel continues to play as well as he has, he deserves the chance to compete for the starting spot. I chose the word "compete" deliberately, to imply that he must outplay Manuel if he is to become the starter. > I liked how Tuel handled himself. He looked like an accurate Fitz. I thought Fitz could have been a very good quarterback if he'd only been accurate. If I could change one additional thing about him besides his accuracy, it would be his arm strength. Arm strength does not seem to be an issue for Tuel.
boyst Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Now that I have had time to disgest it I want to say what I might have already said. EJ needs time with these WR's. He needs as many reps as he can get in the preseason. You could see him get better after every minute. I think a lot of what happened with Kaepernick last year was started in preseason. Everyone is thanking Bill for his good job. I also, though, want to thank everyone here for making this a great thread. (except Beerball) (he took it from good thread to great thread)
Doc Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 > Aren't you being a little quick on making your assessment on Kolb and his place on the roster? You could be right. I was against the Kolb signing from the beginning, which may mean I'm not giving him a fair shake now. If from this point forward he outplays both Manuel and Tuel, I wouldn't object to his re-inclusion in a competition for the starting spot. > However, jumping on the Tuel bandwagon off of the first preseason game in which he played against the scrubs is overreaching. I was not overreaching. If Tuel continues to play as well as he has, he deserves the chance to compete for the starting spot. I chose the word "compete" deliberately, to imply that he must outplay Manuel if he is to become the starter. > I liked how Tuel handled himself. He looked like an accurate Fitz. I thought Fitz could have been a very good quarterback if he'd only been accurate. If I could change one additional thing about him besides his accuracy, it would be his arm strength. Arm strength does not seem to be an issue for Tuel. Given it's a rebuilding year, I don't care if Kolb stays or not. If EJ struggles or goes down, I'd rather see Tuel play, not Kolb, unless they're in the thick of the playoff hunt. And even then, it would likely be a mid-game thing with Tuel coming off the bench and his performance the rest of the game would indicate whether the Bills would need to give Kolb a ring. Tuel has no chance of starting barring major struggles by or injury to EJ. The Bills have to pick a starter and give him most of the reps. Tuel is nothing like Fitz. He's not as book smart (wasn't invited to the Combine so has no Wonderlic on record, but few are as smart as Pickspatrick), has better accuracy, and more arm strength. He's also faster (4.6 versus 4.8).
Kelly the Dog Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 This Tuel talk is foolish. He has never even played against second stringers before. There is a reason he wasn't drafted. I loved what I saw from him, too, but there is no way I would want him to play in a regular season game as our starter if EJ went down. That would in all likelihood be an epic disaster.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Lawson tipped the pass that was picked off by Butler. On the other hand, DBs routinely drop easy pop flies right in their hands. Didn't Searcy drop a certain INT yesterday or was it someone else? Butler made a great play and had an outstanding game. I see a lot of complaints about the NFL Network coverage, this technically was NOT NFL Network coverage, this was the Colts broadcast team. It said right in the beginning Colts Football, so naturally that's all they care about is what Indy does. I'm sure the Bills broadcast was the same the other way around. What I liked most about the coverage was how they started talking positive things about the Bills, that normally doesn't happen in preseason games. Very good. I'm mystified that people are criticizing the NFL Network's coverage. It was the Colts Broadcast Network. Now if someone wants to criticize the NFL Network for carrying the Colts broadcasters, that would be a different… and valid criticism. And yes, in fairness, they actually started talking about the Bills and were highly complimentary for at least one half. Missed Woods and Hogan on two third down throws. Should have made both. On the other hand I've seen it mentioned nowhere today that EJ had a TD pass to Fred that didn't come to fruition because Sheppard got away with defensive holding. Now that I have had time to disgest it I want to say what I might have already said. EJ needs time with these WR's. He needs as many reps as he can get in the preseason. You could see him get better after every minute. I think a lot of what happened with Kaepernick last year was started in preseason. Everyone is thanking Bill for his good job. I also, though, want to thank everyone here for making this a great thread. (except Beerball) (he took it from good thread to great thread) Dude, is that lavender or thistle in your avatar? What's happened to you? You're not gonna debut a new look at the home opener are you? No more Stetson?
BillsWatch Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 The game was more lopsided than the score - WTF was up with the officiating? * Fred Jackson had Sheppard all over him during the incompletion that would have been a TD (or a 1st). How was that not PI or defensive holding? Absolutely and announcers did not seem to notice. On the other hand I've seen it mentioned nowhere today that EJ had a TD pass to Fred that didn't come to fruition because Sheppard got away with defensive holding. Matt did but it is a long thread started by a great post by Bill in NYC. Thanks Bill.
eball Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Lawson tipped the pass that was picked off by Butler. Shouldn't you be in rehab?
Last Guy on the Bench Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Everyone is thanking Bill for his good job. I also, though, want to thank everyone here for making this a great thread. Absolutely. In addition to Bill's always engaging take on things, one of the reason's his AFTATGINPO posts get so much traffic is that they consistently generate good discussion and debate. They rarely devolve into pissing contests (although of course there is always a little pissing going on in any internet message board thread). I really enjoy them, and often learn something. Edited August 13, 2013 by Last Guy on the Bench
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