Nanker Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Oh I see, so he will fall apart over an additional 8 games. And you have what evidence for this? Arithmetic challenged? Look it up. There are incredibly few RBs that have averaged 20 carries a game over their career.
microscopes Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 You seem to enjoy arguing with people. Why? It's not fun to do, nor is it fun to read. Is there another site where this is the norm? It's typically not, here. What? Is that not how a message board works. Someone says something, someone else responds and so forth? I disagree with his opinion. It's called discourse.
bigK14094 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 On your top ten RB's are you all just listing the best runners or the overall best running backs? What can't Fred Jackson do? His blocking is well above average. His ability to catch and get open down field is clear. His YAC is impressive despite the many short dumps he gets. His running is powerful and he can run the ball anywhere between the sidelines. Overall FJ is still a top 10 back. He may not have 1000 rushing yards to show it but he has shown it in his play Fred a step slower than a few years ago...just saying..time catches up with everybody
microscopes Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Arithmetic challenged? Look it up. There are incredibly few RBs that have averaged 20 carries a game over their career. Certainly. But you allege that he won't last the season. Not a career. But for the record, the top 5 RB's in the league last season all had 20+ carries a game.
Kellyto83TD Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) There is no Credence, Chan was an idiot and his views = a losing record every year he was HC. If CJ gets paid as a starter and has his talent... you get his ass on the field every chance you can....but you be smart about it. I say he needs 20 'Touches' per game. 15 runs, and about 5-8 reception attempts. He is WAY too good not to give him that many touches. For those stupid enough (yeah I said STUPID) to say he needs to RUN the ball 20+ times per game Thurman Thomas played in 182 games with a total of 15.8 rushing attempts per game and about 3 recpeptions per game so 18 touches for his career per say. http://www.pro-footb.../T/ThomTh00.htm CJ is faster than Thurman ever was and I will say more explosive overall. So if you can get him say 13-15 rushing attempts and try to get him 5 or so passes, the kid can be a HUGE difference maker for us. But 20 + carries per game... This aint madden folks! Edited August 7, 2013 by Kellyto83TD
boyst Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Fred has an ability to compensate and surprise people. Many doubted him from the start and he still proves us wrong. He does not have to run at 4.2 40 speed or be able to blow up defenders. He has to move the ball 10 yards. If he ends up with less the 800 all purpose yards I will be shocked - in at least 12 games. I expect him to rush for over 100 yards at least once, too. It is not because web have to - keep CJ from carrying every play. But it is because we can. We can use Fred Jackson to ease the load on Spiller when it will not matter. This time of year the Jackson haters come out of the woodwork like crazy. With their wealth of knowledge in 500 posts they explain so much. Spiller cannot run 100 yards on every play and it is about every 4 touches he only gets 1 yard. Late in the game, early in the game, or any time in between there is no reason we cannot expect a contribution from Fred Jackson. Anyone thinking we can ride Spiller to the sunset need look at Chris Johnson and Tennnessee
NoSaint Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Arithmetic challenged? Look it up. There are incredibly few RBs that have averaged 20 carries a game over their career. 20 a game is about the MAX you would ever want. I have posted it many a time but once you break into that 350-375+ touches range players start to absolutely fall apart often taking a full year to recover. (20 a game for a season is 320) Fred has an ability to compensate and surprise people. Many doubted him from the start and he still proves us wrong. He does not have to run at 4.2 40 speed or be able to blow up defenders. He has to move the ball 10 yards. If he ends up with less the 800 all purpose yards I will be shocked - in at least 12 games. I expect him to rush for over 100 yards at least once, too. It is not because web have to - keep CJ from carrying every play. But it is because we can. We can use Fred Jackson to ease the load on Spiller when it will not matter. This time of year the Jackson haters come out of the woodwork like crazy. With their wealth of knowledge in 500 posts they explain so much. Spiller cannot run 100 yards on every play and it is about every 4 touches he only gets 1 yard. Late in the game, early in the game, or any time in between there is no reason we cannot expect a contribution from Fred Jackson. Anyone thinking we can ride Spiller to the sunset need look at Chris Johnson and Tennnessee freds a good back but hes not top 10 in the league. thats not being a hater at all. hes a good, well rounded, reliable, but not elite. i consider that description a compliment not bashing.
Gugny Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 What? Is that not how a message board works. Someone says something, someone else responds and so forth? I disagree with his opinion. It's called discourse. Yes. Yes, I'm aware of how a message board works, as well as being aware that it's called discourse. Certainly, however, you can acknowledge the difference between a civil conversation and a conversation in which one participant uses condescending phrases and general douchebaggery. Of course, I'm not accusing anyone of any of this. I'm simply pointing out the difference.
mrags Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 20 a game is about the MAX you would ever want. I have posted it many a time but once you break into that 350-375+ touches range players start to absolutely fall apart often taking a full year to recover. (20 a game for a season is 320) freds a good back but hes not top 10 in the league. thats not being a hater at all. hes a good, well rounded, reliable, but not elite. i consider that description a compliment not bashing. im with you on this one. Said perfectly. I'm not a FJ hater. I live the guy. But It's past his time to be the #1 regardless if we had CJ or not. He just can't handle that burden. CJ on the other hand is in his prime and ready to shoulder the load. Does that mean I think we should rush him 300+ times a season? Probably not. But I will say that I expect him to be out there, giving us our best chance to score on as many plays as he can handle. If that's 15 touches a game, or if he can handle more. He will be the one to let us know with his play if its too much. In the meantime, I love that Freddie is our backup RB. Nobody better suited for the job than him IMO. He's getting up there in injuries and years and the limited number of carries should keep him fiery and fresh all season.
yungmack Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 With the O-line seemingly a bit unsettled, a bunch of rookie receivers sure to start, & the QBs being a fragile new-to-the Bills retread & 2 rookies, I would not be surprised if our RBs see a whole lot of blocking work plus loads of screens.
thurst44 Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 What people might be missing here: just b/c CJ is getting a lot of carries, does not mean that FJ will be forgotten. I agree that CJ should clearly be the featured back, and get more touches than last year (and I hated the awkward "let's put one, then the other, in on various drives"), hopefully Freddie will still be on the field at least 50% of the time, either blocking, or making it so that teams can't focus on CJ. One of the reasons I feel Spiller is poised to have a historic season, is that he has Freddie backing him up/blocking for him/adding a counterbalance.
microscopes Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) Fred has an ability to compensate and surprise people. Many doubted him from the start and he still proves us wrong. He does not have to run at 4.2 40 speed or be able to blow up defenders. He has to move the ball 10 yards. If he ends up with less the 800 all purpose yards I will be shocked - in at least 12 games. I expect him to rush for over 100 yards at least once, too. It is not because web have to - keep CJ from carrying every play. But it is because we can. We can use Fred Jackson to ease the load on Spiller when it will not matter. This time of year the Jackson haters come out of the woodwork like crazy. With their wealth of knowledge in 500 posts they explain so much. Spiller cannot run 100 yards on every play and it is about every 4 touches he only gets 1 yard. Late in the game, early in the game, or any time in between there is no reason we cannot expect a contribution from Fred Jackson. Anyone thinking we can ride Spiller to the sunset need look at Chris Johnson and Tennnessee First, Spiller is not Chris Johnson. Second, Chris Johnson has never had a season under 1400 yards or 4 yards per carry so i'm not sure why youre using him as an example of what you don't want to do. Chris Johnson: 2012: 1,475 yards 2011: 1,465 yards 2010: 1,609 yards 2009: 2.509 yards 2008: 1,488 yards Sure looks like they're riding him into the sunset.... Edited August 7, 2013 by AvengedSevenfold
NoSaint Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 First, Spiller is not Chris Johnson. Second, Chris Johnson has never had a season under 1400 yards or 4 yards per carry so i'm not sure why youre using him as an example of what you don't want to do. Chris Johnson: 2012: 1,475 yards 2011: 1,465 yards 2010: 1,609 yards 2009: 2.509 yards 2008: 1,488 yards Sure looks like they're riding him into the sunset.... Just an FYI - always appreciated to note it when using all purpose yards instead of rushing yards.... Especially in a sentence with yards per carry referenced.
Dorkington Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) 2011, Fred Jackson lead the league in YPC among RBs. 2012, he dropped off big time, probably due to injuries. One thing to note, though. CJ and Jackson both benefited from Chan's play calling, there was a lot of open space for them to run in, most of the time. We'll see how Hackett handles the offense this year. Yds from scrimmage per game in 2011, Jackson finished second in the league: http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=Y&yr=2011&lg=NFL&sort=totgame 2012, CJ finished 6th (5th among RBs): http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=Y&yr=2012&lg=NFL&sort=totgame We're in pretty good hands. Edited August 7, 2013 by Dorkington
microscopes Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Just an FYI - always appreciated to note it when using all purpose yards instead of rushing yards.... Especially in a sentence with yards per carry referenced. I see running yards and receiving yards equally as important, but you're right I'll add a footnote.
boyst Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 First, Spiller is not Chris Johnson. Second, Chris Johnson has never had a season under 1400 yards or 4 yards per carry so i'm not sure why youre using him as an example of what you don't want to do. Chris Johnson: 2012: 1,475 yards 2011: 1,465 yards 2010: 1,609 yards 2009: 2.509 yards 2008: 1,488 yards Sure looks like they're riding him into the sunset.... those titans sure have been a power house too. Those beatings they give everyone in the AFC championship game. No one comes close to doing what the Titans do in the playoffs. Teams like Indy, new England, Denver, Atlanta, San Fransisco... they won't ever win until they run the ball! How long until we get the trade Fred Jackson posts?
Gugny Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 2012: 1,475 yards - 13 wins 2011: 1,465 yards - 8 wins 2010: 1,609 yards - 6 wins 2009: 2.509 yards - 9 wins 2008: 1,488 yards - 6 wins Sure looks like they're not winning many games while riding him into the sunset.... Fixed.
mrags Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 those titans sure have been a power house too. Those beatings they give everyone in the AFC championship game. No one comes close to doing what the Titans do in the playoffs. Teams like Indy, new England, Denver, Atlanta, San Fransisco... they won't ever win until they run the ball! How long until we get the trade Fred Jackson posts? yiu won't hear it from me bud. Love him here. Just hope people realize he's not Fred Jackson of 2010-11 anymore.
microscopes Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) those titans sure have been a power house too. Those beatings they give everyone in the AFC championship game. No one comes close to doing what the Titans do in the playoffs. Teams like Indy, new England, Denver, Atlanta, San Fransisco... they won't ever win until they run the ball! How long until we get the trade Fred Jackson posts? I didn't bring up Chris Johnson. YOU did. I was just showing you your faulty comparison. Secondly, Tennessee is not losing because Chris Johnson is putting up close to 1,500 yards a season. They're losing because they don't have a QB and their defense has been suspect at times. Edited August 7, 2013 by AvengedSevenfold
boyst Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 yiu won't hear it from me bud. Love him here. Just hope people realize he's not Fred Jackson of 2010-11 anymore. and that year he was top 3 in the league and an MVP candidate
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