Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Hey, according to 20 years list El Paso is bigger than Boston! Who knew? According to Wikipedia- Not me. Sorry you don't like tables with numbers fact guy. Pretty terrible reader? Is that what it means? Buffalo is a shell of its former self decimated by high taxes, lousy weather, corrupt politicians and a complete whiff on attempting to transition into the new economy. Its an irrelevant place living off a it's success in the 50s and 60s. Pro athletes may follow a job potentially anywhere, but face it, Buffalo is lucky to still have a team. If you are curious how attractive it is to live there for pro athletes, ask how many make it their off season home. Another few years and it won't be in the top 50 most populous metro areas. Facts?? The FACT is no one just measures city population. SMSA, or standard metropolitan statistical area, is the official measure of an areas population. As for Buffalo, its SMSA is just two counties: Erie and Niagara. Erie County is a million all by itself. Rochester is the sprawled out city. Its SMSA is 5 counties large. So sorry to bitchslap your theory around. In fact if we did play your little game and include everyone for 70 miles around, Buffalo would have over 7 million people! One last thing: SMSA's are defined by congress, not by the local chambers of commerce. PTR No one measures city population... Yet somehow the numbers exist? Just like in Green Bay, the fact that there is relatively little to do in the Buffalo area makes it a better location, in some ways, for NFL players. Many players come into the league immature and unaware of how to deal with going from poverty to relatively great wealth. Having fewer distractions during the season,for young players, is a great thing for performance on the field; I suspect that is a huge part of the reason that Green Bay has stayed so successful. As we are doing metro areas green bays is like 50% greater, so not a good benchmark.
mrags Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 20 of Fanhood. You make it sound like the City of Buffalo stole your wife, ran over your dog, and adopted your first born. Jeeze man. It'll all be over soon.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Have fun wasting your life away in traffic. I'd go crazy if I lived anywhere in the Balt/DC area. Living your life around traffic patterns and then still having it not work out. Wasting in traffic? I drive 10 minutes to work each day. The only time I waste away in traffic is when I drive to b-low for thanksgiving because all the people who left are driving home for the holiday. It's really sad. The other thing is having kids there is so much for them to do in a real metro area they'd miss out on on a small town. So much more experiential learning. So many opportunities to see the world as the huge place that it is as opposed to the isolated non-diverse vacuum of upstate western NY. I imagine some pro athletes like the small town feel of buffalo where they are local legends... I guess that could be a selling point? the Bills have the 4th LARGEST NFL market. GTF outta here.... How's that? Oh your including TO in the metro area now. HA! 20 of Fanhood. You make it sound like the City of Buffalo stole your wife, ran over your dog, and adopted your first born. Jeeze man. It'll all be over soon. No I just always found the argument annoying from an economist perspective. I remember in college the buf homers would argue how much better it was than NYC.... And it was just ridiculous. The bottom line is there is one really good thing about living there. It's cheap. It's cheap because people vote about how nice a place it is to live with their home address, which in mass dictates property value. The only people I ever met from there are: 1. People who left because its a dump 2. People who live there but complain about it because its a dump, refusing to leave 3. People who live there and swear it is the greatest place on earth. I have nothing against b-low, it's really sad what its become and maybe snapping out of denial might start to drive change in the right direction some day.
mrags Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Wasting in traffic? I drive 10 minutes to work each day. The only time I waste away in traffic is when I drive to b-low for thanksgiving because all the people who left are driving home for the holiday. It's really sad. The other thing is having kids there is so much for them to do in a real metro area they'd miss out on on a small town. So much more experiential learning. So many opportunities to see the world as the huge place that it is as opposed to the isolated non-diverse vacuum of upstate western NY. I imagine some pro athletes like the small town feel of buffalo where they are local legends... I guess that could be a selling point? GTF outta here.... How's that? Oh your including TO in the metro area now. HA! No I just always found the argument annoying from an economist perspective. I remember in college the buf homers would argue how much better it was than NYC.... And it was just ridiculous. The bottom line is there is one really good thing about living there. It's cheap. It's cheap because people vote about how nice a place it is to live with their home address, which in mass dictates property value. The only people I ever met from there are: 1. People who left because its a dump 2. People who live there but complain about it because its a dump, refusing to leave 3. People who live there and swear it is the greatest place on earth. I have nothing against b-low, it's really sad what its become and maybe snapping out of denial might start to drive change in the right direction some day. where exactly do you live? And how often do you visit Buffalo? And for how long do those visits last? And where do you spend your time when your here? Of you've lived here in the past for how long? How long ago was it? What age were you? A lot of questions, I know, but in order to have a realistic argument about the City of Buffalo I really need to gauge your knowledge of the information you are basing your argument from. Sorry but "people who left because its a dump" is not a good source of information.
uncle flap Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Another few years and it won't be in the top 50 most populous metro areas. Maybe, but that's merely a reflection of simple math- more people in an area will have more babies. Then consider that throughout the south and the midwest, suburban poverty levels are climbing at an exponential rate. Those poor people having babies have limited social mobility. Those areas may be growing in size, but I would argue they are shrinking or stagnant in "quality." So I don't think the argument that more people necessarily equals better city/metro area is really valid. To make a more pertinent comparison, while most rustbelt metro areas have steadily declined in population for decades, Buffalo's has remained the same for 30 years. The city's population is still shrinking, but Erie and Niagara counties have maintained a combined pop of about 1.1 million since 1980. Like I said upthread, Chicago and a few other mega cities are not the standard for pro sport cities, or cities in general. That's like saying a Ford Fusion is a POS because it's not a Ferrari. You can compare a Fusion to a Camry or a Maxima or even a Benz or a Beemer and it might mean something, but to me there's no sense in deeming a car or a city as subpar when one defines "par" as a hole in one. Edited August 9, 2013 by uncle flap
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Wasting in traffic? I drive 10 minutes to work each day. The only time I waste away in traffic is when I drive to b-low for thanksgiving because all the people who left are driving home for the holiday. It's really sad. The other thing is having kids there is so much for them to do in a real metro area they'd miss out on on a small town. So much more experiential learning. So many opportunities to see the world as the huge place that it is as opposed to the isolated non-diverse vacuum of upstate western NY. I imagine some pro athletes like the small town feel of buffalo where they are local legends... I guess that could be a selling point? GTF outta here.... How's that? Oh your including TO in the metro area now. HA! No I just always found the argument annoying from an economist perspective. I remember in college the buf homers would argue how much better it was than NYC.... And it was just ridiculous. The bottom line is there is one really good thing about living there. It's cheap. It's cheap because people vote about how nice a place it is to live with their home address, which in mass dictates property value. The only people I ever met from there are: 1. People who left because its a dump 2. People who live there but complain about it because its a dump, refusing to leave 3. People who live there and swear it is the greatest place on earth. I have nothing against b-low, it's really sad what its become and maybe snapping out of denial might start to drive change in the right direction some day. I went to City Honors, Canisius High School, Played football at Columbia, before finishing my degree at the University of Rochester. You will be hard pressed to get a better education anywhere in the world. I've dated attractive girls while in Buffalo & had a great job here. Other factors forced me to move. But my Buffalo experience was amazing. Maybe the reason yours wasn't as good is more of a reflection on you. And FYI, metro area is how people determine population now. Only idiots use city population. Edited August 9, 2013 by C.Biscuit97
dubs Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 It's great that your move is so promising for you, and for many others. However, from the perspective of a professional athlete, there are plenty of places with nice, and usually nicer, suburbs than the Buffalo area. In the New York tri-state area alone, you have wealthy suburban parts of northern New Jersey, Westchester, and Connecticut (Greenwich isn't far) for professional athletes who prefer a surburban feel. For football players, one could live in a place like Alpine or Saddle River, NJ and commute to the stadium. The same is true of other markets smaller than NYC. Bloomfield Hills, along with some of other suburbs of Detroit, is one of the nicest places in the entire country, even though Detroit proper is a failed city. Oakland has the entire S.F. bay area. Jacksonville has a weather advantage over Buffalo. Quite frankly, there are very few positives for wealthy, young professional athletes in Buffalo over other cities. I do believe that, like Green Bay, the Bills can be a draw for free agents, but let's not delude ourselves and pretend that Buffalo has any major advantages over other cities. That's without even getting into the absurdly high N.Y.S. property and income taxes. I think that's what I meant to get at and then got on a Buffalo is a great place tangent. First and foremost, I think for an athlete it comes down to what's the best situation for them from a football standpoint. Should Buffalo get good again, the city is irrelevant. But I do think for some players that are younger, Buffalo may be a deterrent. For players a little more established, I think maybe they will see that although it doesn't have the glitz and glitter or a major city, it's a fantastic place to live.
dubs Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Wasting in traffic? I drive 10 minutes to work each day. The only time I waste away in traffic is when I drive to b-low for thanksgiving because all the people who left are driving home for the holiday. It's really sad. The other thing is having kids there is so much for them to do in a real metro area they'd miss out on on a small town. So much more experiential learning. So many opportunities to see the world as the huge place that it is as opposed to the isolated non-diverse vacuum of upstate western NY. I imagine some pro athletes like the small town feel of buffalo where they are local legends... I guess that could be a selling point? GTF outta here.... How's that? Oh your including TO in the metro area now. HA! No I just always found the argument annoying from an economist perspective. I remember in college the buf homers would argue how much better it was than NYC.... And it was just ridiculous. The bottom line is there is one really good thing about living there. It's cheap. It's cheap because people vote about how nice a place it is to live with their home address, which in mass dictates property value. The only people I ever met from there are: 1. People who left because its a dump 2. People who live there but complain about it because its a dump, refusing to leave 3. People who live there and swear it is the greatest place on earth. I have nothing against b-low, it's really sad what its become and maybe snapping out of denial might start to drive change in the right direction some day. Look, it's really difficult to talk about a city, any city, in absolute terms. Is Buffalo for everyone, no. If a person would like to inflate their self-worth by being able to say they live in NYC or Los Angeles, then Buffalo isn't the place for them. Your point about property values doesn't make any sense and is wrong. Is Dallas a dump? You can buy a gorgeous, huge house in the Dallas suburbs for about 500k. Very similar and in some ways less expensive than Buffalo. You can' compare Buffalo real estate values to Coastal Cities. It's apples to oranges. Is Buffalo a perfect place? Of course not. Just like every city there are trade offs and frankly there is a lot more the city can do to make it a better place than it is. But I think for people who want a place to raise a family surrounded by good people, a great community, good schools, affordable, and enough entertainment and things to do, it's a very good choice.
biglukes Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Look, it's really difficult to talk about a city, any city, in absolute terms. Is Buffalo for everyone, no. If a person would like to inflate their self-worth by being able to say they live in NYC or Los Angeles, then Buffalo isn't the place for them. Your point about property values doesn't make any sense and is wrong. Is Dallas a dump? You can buy a gorgeous, huge house in the Dallas suburbs for about 500k. Very similar and in some ways less expensive than Buffalo. You can' compare Buffalo real estate values to Coastal Cities. It's apples to oranges. Is Buffalo a perfect place? Of course not. Just like every city there are trade offs and frankly there is a lot more the city can do to make it a better place than it is. But I think for people who want a place to raise a family surrounded by good people, a great community, good schools, affordable, and enough entertainment and things to do, it's a very good choice. Look at all the hockey players who come back to and stay in the area when they're done playing. Getting guys here may be a bit of an issue, but most of the guys end up loving it here. Granted I'm talking more in terms of hockey players, but there have been plenty of Bills as well who really enjoyed their time in Buffalo. There is no perfect place for everyone. Everybody values things differently. Edited August 9, 2013 by biglukes
papazoid Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Wasting in traffic? I drive 10 minutes to work each day. The only time I waste away in traffic is when I drive to b-low for thanksgiving because all the people who left are driving home for the holiday. It's really sad. The other thing is having kids there is so much for them to do in a real metro area they'd miss out on on a small town. So much more experiential learning. So many opportunities to see the world as the huge place that it is as opposed to the isolated non-diverse vacuum of upstate western NY. I imagine some pro athletes like the small town feel of buffalo where they are local legends... I guess that could be a selling point? GTF outta here.... How's that? Oh your including TO in the metro area now. HA! No I just always found the argument annoying from an economist perspective. I remember in college the buf homers would argue how much better it was than NYC.... And it was just ridiculous. The bottom line is there is one really good thing about living there. It's cheap. It's cheap because people vote about how nice a place it is to live with their home address, which in mass dictates property value. The only people I ever met from there are: 1. People who left because its a dump 2. People who live there but complain about it because its a dump, refusing to leave 3. People who live there and swear it is the greatest place on earth. I have nothing against b-low, it's really sad what its become and maybe snapping out of denial might start to drive change in the right direction some day. Toronto is within the home territory of the Buffalo Bills as defined by the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I went to City Honors, Canisius High School, Played football at Columbia, before finishing my degree at the University of Rochester. You will be hard pressed to get a better education anywhere in the world. I've dated attractive girls while in Buffalo & had a great job here. Other factors forced me to move. But my Buffalo experience was amazing. Maybe the reason yours wasn't as good is more of a reflection on you. And FYI, metro area is how people determine population now. Only idiots use city population. Hard pressed to get a better education in the world? Ur Clearly a number 3. I cited the population of the city of buffalo as a shocking stat, where its lass than half of its peak and much smaller that what are considered third rate cities. So the statement using city population is idiotic irrespective of context is well... A very idiotic thing to write, thus it really calls into question the quality of that world class education cited.
OCinBuffalo Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) I read the article and this thread. It's correction time. Mike Schopp is clearly writing from the perspective of never having made any real money. I can get into why, and give examples, and all of that. Waste of time. He simply doesn't know what he doesn't know: the only thing wise people who make real money care about? Ensuring that they continue making real money. Because making real money, over time? That can be turned into wealth. Where they live only matters, if it either increases, or decreases, their chance of making real money. If I told you that I was hiring you in South Dakota, but, paying $255k(or whatever the NFL min is) a year base, no taxes, + a bunch of nice bonuses/benefits? How many of you would drop what you're doing and be ready to meet me in Provo next week? You'd be making real money. Most of you for the first time. Would you care where you lived? If you did that for 5 years, wisely, you'd be set, or at least have a new set of better choices in front of you. People that have never made real money, and haven't learned about the responsibility that comes with wealth, will never understand. More money = more problems? Not really. Only for people who don't know a thing about wealth. Anybody who has a dollar in their pocket knows about money. For those who do know wealth? More money = more solutions. So, yeah, somebody coming from the ghetto, is likely to have no clue about wealth, and will yap endlessly about money. Listen to rap: it's all right there, under your nose. Consider: What happens to lottery winners 80% of the time? They end up flat broke. It might not be because they are dumb. It is because they lack the knowledge + experience = wisdom of turning money into wealth. Of course this isn't absolute. Some people learn quickly. Most don't. However, and NFL/NHL free agent? They've been making real $ for years. Years is the key. However much of an idiot they may/may not have been as a rookie? They learned. They know the drill now. I guarantee that Mario William's decision to go to the Bills, has a hell of a lot more to do with "how likely am I to play every year of this contract, which will allow me to create the maximum amount of wealth" rather than "look, there's deer in Jim Kelly's back yard!" The job is to hang in there, making real money, for as long as possible. Look at Steve Tasker. That's an object lesson in "ensuring that you continue to make real money". Anybody think Steve wishes he played in NYC, for the Jets? Again, it's about wisdom, and about knowing what to do when you start making real money. I was in training with Steve Tasker's first cousin. That's a very wise family, and the results? They are obvious, both tor Steve, and his cousin. Edited August 9, 2013 by OCinBuffalo
bbb Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Wasting in traffic? I drive 10 minutes to work each day. The only time I waste away in traffic is when I drive to b-low for thanksgiving because all the people who left are driving home for the holiday. It's really sad. Only somebody who thinks in terms of city size and not MSA could make the asinine argument that Buffalo traffic is worse than DC. Buffalo is making huge strides - not so much from all the waterfront development, medical campus, etc. - but from the fact that you're gone.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 where exactly do you live? And how often do you visit Buffalo? And for how long do those visits last? And where do you spend your time when your here? Of you've lived here in the past for how long? How long ago was it? What age were you? A lot of questions, I know, but in order to have a realistic argument about the City of Buffalo I really need to gauge your knowledge of the information you are basing your argument from. Sorry but "people who left because its a dump" is not a good source of information. Fair. I live in Maryland. Lived in williamsville from birth '76 to '94 and the off and on til '99. Visit buf 1-2 times per year in aggregate 1.5 to 2 weeks per year since 99 and still have close family there. Typically go to waterfront, Chippewa or hang around Getzville/Williamsville when there. My reason for leaving wasn't anyone of the three I hear from others. I simply knew there was a bigger better world out there and wanted to be part of it. I've lived in South Carolina, Europe and Maryland since, have a great career going as an exec for world class organization. None of which would have likely, I believe, occurred in Buffalo. I'm disappointed at what Buffalo has become vs what it could be. If Buffalonians want to keep the team there, they need to take a hard look in the mirror and throw the bums out, move into the city and revitalize it and start turning the trajectory back.
yungmack Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Hard pressed to get a better education in the world? Ur Clearly a number 3. I cited the population of the city of buffalo as a shocking stat, where its lass than half of its peak and much smaller that what are considered third rate cities. So the statement using city population is idiotic irrespective of context is well... A very idiotic thing to write, thus it really calls into question the quality of that world class education cited. That loss of population is common to all the old "rust belt" cities, particularly along the Great Lakes. A common characteristic is that they peaked in population with the 1950 census. However, the loss of population in the cities was offset by the explosion of the suburbs. The decline in metropolitan population began generally in the 70s with the decline in manufacturing (exiting to the south and to offshore sources) & the decline in unions combined with a vigorous political agenda by so called "conservatives" to gut programs & policies that largely protected the middle class in favor of those that largely benefit the fairly small "big money" investor class.
dubs Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Only somebody who thinks in terms of city size and not MSA could make the asinine argument that Buffalo traffic is worse than DC. Buffalo is making huge strides - not so much from all the waterfront development, medical campus, etc. - but from the fact that you're gone. ha ha... I was questioning that commuting estimate. Maybe it's true, who knows. I think he means that he walks to the commuter rail and is in town within 10 minutes. Definitely reasonable. From my experience, the trade off is a smaller house and living in very close proximity to other (i.e. Condo or somthing akin to South Buffalo homes). What I do know, having lived in NYC, Chicago and Boston, is that rush hour traffic is absolutely terrible for people who drive into work. I used to travel for work for a living and lived in the city of Chicago. It would take me at least 45 minutes to get from O'Hare to downtown. Usually it would take an hour. It's a commute that distancewise, should take about 20 minutes. Edited August 9, 2013 by dubs
bbb Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 ha ha... I was questioning that commuting estimate. Maybe it's true, who knows. I think he means that he walks to the commuter rail and is in town within 10 minutes. Definitely reasonable. From my experience, the trade off is a smaller house and living in very close proximity to other (i.e. Condo or somthing akin to South Buffalo homes). What I do know, having lived in NYC, Chicago and Boston, is that rush hour traffic is absolutely terrible for people who drive into work. I used to travel for work for a living and lived in the city of Chicago. It would take me at least 45 minutes to get from O'Hare to downtown. Usually it would take an hour. It's a commute that distancewise, should take about 20 minutes. Sure, he could be an outlier with some easy commute, but in general what you are saying is how most people have it. I actually think DC/Balt traffic is even worse than the three you mention.
dubs Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Sure, he could be an outlier with some easy commute, but in general what you are saying is how most people have it. I actually think DC/Balt traffic is even worse than the three you mention. When I've been to DC, it's been absolutely the worst. Chicago is on Par. Boston was slightly better because you can at least predict when it will be bad and in what direction. NYC is train or GTFO.
bbb Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 When I've been to DC, it's been absolutely the worst. Chicago is on Par. Boston was slightly better because you can at least predict when it will be bad and in what direction. NYC is train or GTFO. Same here...........And as for NYC, that's what I love about it. You don't have to drive at all. Trains, cabs, etc. is all you need.
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