Bills vow Doug Marrone will make them winners

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

Let's go Bills! I can't handle another regime change, only Mush from A Bronx Tale had this much failure. I refuse to think of the Bills as Mush!

[OCinBuffalo]

 

AMEN brother!!!

 

So...you agree that given a combination of:

1. the NFL's forceful tendency to regress toward the mean,

2. the logic we should have learned in 8th grade

3. the stats we should have learned in high school, perhaps college

 

People who expect the Bills to make the playoffs this year, are in fact being the most realistic?

 

Logically and statistically, they are, in fact, being the most realistic. This is due to the REAL statistical trends of the NFL on the whole(not the ones we magically made up in our heads). Historically, using the real(and not magical) definition of the word, the Bills not making the playoffs for this long is an aberration, that we should be expect will be corrected: immediately.

 

Thus, the Bills making the playoffs, this year, is the most rational statistical expectation. If you want to call that "being positive", or, if you want to call that "tuna on rye"? I do not care, becaue it's irrelevant, statistically.

[Beerball]

One of the hallmarks of our 21st century society, as demonstrated on this message board (and specifically in this thread), remains a complete intolerance of contrarian opinion. Those fans who aren't excited about the "new" Bills are deemed negative, told to get another team, and roundly criticized for questioning the happy training camp talk we typically see this time of year.

 

We're left with ad hominem attacks precipitated by those who won't deign to understand why people don't think like them. Brandon can say what he wants, but talk is cheap. Didn't someone once say to show us the baby first?

I'm not through the thread yet, but I don't see any attacks. If you feel that you or someone else is being attacked please use the report function.

 

The interesting thing about this piece is the degree of inside information. Given everything that has happened over the last several weeks, all of the useful information has been from non-local sources, while all of the tabloid pieces have been TBN and the like. Anyone else get the feeling that the locals have bitten the hand that feeds one too many times, and some of their testiness is a reflection of their dwindling access? You could put Marrone's "blowup (hardly)" in the context of one final shot across the bow.

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/159978-please-put-your-game-face-on/

 

They are not lazy. They are uninspired 4th rate journalists on a 3rd rate paper.

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/159978-please-put-your-game-face-on/

 

Great job by Yahoo that shines a light on the lazy work by some of the folks at the Buffalo News.

 

It's so disappointing how certain members of the News' staff would rather spend time making Mario Williams’ foot a big issue rather than taking the time to do some research and give their readers an interesting piece to read.

 

Do we really need these clowns asking the same question 7 different ways so they can try to get a reaction out of Marrone on which they can fixate?

 

Please give us something insightful for a change.

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/159978-please-put-your-game-face-on/

[JohnC]

 

33%? Sheeeet!

 

I'l bet it's less than half of that. I'll run the numbers and get back to us .

 

Without crunching the numbers I would guess it is in the 15%-18% range. Looking forward to see what you come up with. The point is as bad as the record has been it didn't accurately reflect where the franchise ranked in this parity designed system.

 

I'm still optimistic that this new regime is much more capable of turning things around than the prior regimes. This year the critical issue is not about the record so much as it is about finding out what EJ is capable of doing.

[OCinBuffalo]

I'm not through the thread yet, but I don't see any attacks. If you feel that you or someone else is being attacked please use the report function.

Pfft.

 

Let me tell you how this one ends--> When you can't win the argument, argue against having the argument.

 

Or, when you can't win on the content? Start talking about the process.

 

This used to be standard fare over at PPP...no longer.

[Beerball]

My expectations are relative to my team, it's culture and its recent history.

Good point.

[Dorkington]

I refuse. Go back and read the thread, and, specifically look at what I replied to. It will take you 30 seconds.

 

Heh. That's what I thought.

 

I've been participating and reading this thread. I see most everyone is in "wait and see" mode. I see some people who are skeptical of any sale's speech given to us, and I see some that are incredibly optimistic. But apparently it's delved into "OMG YOU GUYZ R IDIOTS FOR THINKING THE BILLS MIGHT SUCK/BE GOOD!!!!"

 

Fun times.

[Beerball]

Pfft.

 

Let me tell you how this one ends--> When you can't win the argument, argue against having the argument.

 

Or, when you can't win on the content? Start talking about the process.

 

This used to be standard fare over at PPP...no longer.

Your point escapes me. If you feel someone has been attacked please point out the post.

[OCinBuffalo]

Heh. That's what I thought.

 

I've been participating and reading this thread. I see most everyone is in "wait and see" mode. I see some people who are skeptical of any sale's speech given to us, and I see some that are incredibly optimistic. But apparently it's delved into "OMG YOU GUYZ R IDIOTS FOR THINKING THE BILLS MIGHT SUCK/BE GOOD!!!!"

 

Fun times.

You thought? What exacty did you think? That I can't point to an example?

 

Why do I have to do your work for you? If you think I haven't responded to those exact words.

 

Prove it.

 

I even told you where to look.

[Dorkington]

WHICH TEAM WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE ?

 

over the course of a Ten Year Period:

 

Team "A" - makes the playoffs 9 of 10 years but does NOT win Super Bowl.

 

Team "B" - misses the playoffs 9 of 10 years but WINS the Super Bowl once.

 

Fun question...

 

I think it really depends on how Team B misses the playoffs. Are they a 8-8/9-7 all the time and finally break through and get to the big one? Or are they a miserable experience of 2 to 7 win teams that are irrelevant way before the season ends?

 

If it's the former, I think I'll take "B". If it's the latter, I'll take "A". I'd much rather watch a team that's relevant every year, than watch a team be horrible every year, then some how get the Superbowl once in there. So, really, it all depends on how Team "B" performs in non Superbowl years, in how I answer the question.

 

Either way, the Bills are:

 

Team "C" - misses the playoffs 10 of 10 years, usually by a fair margin.

 

So I'm not really sure about the relevance of this question to the discussion at hand.

 

 

 

You thought? What exacty did you think? That I can't point to an example?

 

Why do I have to do your work for you? If you think I haven't responded to those exact words.

 

Prove it.

 

I even told you where to look.

 

I asked you a question. My expectation/thought would be that you'd dodge it. And you did. That's really all I need.

 

I stand by my opinion that most everyone here is in the same boat, as far as actual expectations go, but they wear it differently on their emotional sleeves. That's turned into the argument that those who are skeptical are overly negative, and those who are hopeful are overly optimistic.

[OCinBuffalo]

Your point escapes me. If you feel someone has been attacked please point out the post.

I feel the exact opposite. The fact is that BillsVet's post quite literally =

 

I don't like the fact that this argument isn't going the way I'd like it to go, so, not only am I going to say that people are name calling(when nobody is), I'm also going to say that people are intolerant. But worse, I'm going to blame society for this, because lord knows, me losing this argument has to be somebody else's fault....and not mine.

 

Or, in other words: that post is an unmitigated load of crap....and BillsVet is crying message board wolf.

 

I asked you a question. My expectation/thought would be that you'd dodge it. And you did. That's really all I need.

 

I stand by my opinion that most everyone here is in the same boat, as far as actual expectations go, but they wear it differently on their emotional sleeves. That's turned into the argument that those who are skeptical are overly negative, and those who are hopeful are overly optimistic.

Dodge? "You keep using that word. I do no think it means what you think it means."

 

How does: your answer lies clear as day in this thread, if you'd only bother to click on page 2 and scroll down = dodge? I am telling you exactly where to find it. Here's your link, lazy: http://forums.twobil...20#entry2860368

 

Let me explain: dodge means...I don't tell you where to find the answer, and I talk about something else.

 

It doesn't mean I do tell you: 3 times. Hopefully that helps.

 

Carry on.

Edited August 5, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[Dorkington]

 

The Bills are finally doing what top notch organizations do, & not just sports organizations. They now have a mission statement. They stuck to it through the hiring process. They appear to have drafted well. I like the staff they have put together. If you (the collective you) cannot see the change and take some encouragement from it then I'm surprised. What does any of this guarantee? Not a gosh darn thing. But...the process to get where they are today vs. one year ago is sound. That encourages me.

 

Missed this...

 

The Bills had a solid mission statement 3/4 years ago at the beginning of the of the Chan/Nix era as well (at least on paper). I know a whole lot of us were excited about it. Chan's nifty offensive schemes, getting big beefy guys for the defense, running something other than the Tampa 2, and then hiring THE STACHE, oh man, things were looking up. Even the National Media was on our side! And then.... Womp Womp.

 

That's basically been my point. We get sold this wholesale change every few years, and then the results end up being the same. This team kind of reminds me of the team that last had the best shot of the playoffs for the Bills, so it should be fun at least.

 

I guess the silver lining is, we get to be excited about a new attempt at success every few years.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Yeah, well unfortunately for Brandon and the rest of the front office weenies he has about as much credibility as a crack ho at this point.

 

Just shut up and have your team do it Russ! You've been talking for a decade and have been the most miserable team in the league over that stretch while hanging us out to dry based on the litany of all of your empty promises.

 

Here's one, if you really believe it, then put your job on the line Russ!!! How about if he doesn't win you quit?

 

No on likes a quitter...

[Dorkington]

 

I feel the exact opposite. The fact is that BillsVet's post quite literally =

 

I don't like the fact that this argument isn't going the way I'd like it to go, so, not only am I going to say that people are name calling(when nobody is), I'm also going to say that people are intolerant. But worse, I'm going to blame society for this, because lord knows, me losing this argument has to be somebody else's fault....and not mine.

 

Or, in other words: that post is an unmitigated load of crap....and BillsVet is crying message board wolf.

 

 

Dodge? "You keep using that word. I do no think it means what you think it means."

 

How does: your answer lies clear as day in this thread, if you'd only bother to click on page 2 and scroll down = dodge? I am telling you exactly where to find it. Here's your link, lazy: http://forums.twobil...20#entry2860368

 

Let me explain: dodge means...I don't tell you where to find the answer, and I talk about something else.

 

It doesn't mean I do tell you: 3 times. Hopefully that helps.

 

Carry on.

 

Ah, yes.... I'm lazy. Even though I *responded* to that quote already. (Meaning I read it, and what you responded to.)

 

The problem with your original assertion is that you assume 31 teams are "failures" because they didn't win the Superbowl. You back off a little by saying 20 teams are failures.

 

But let's actually look at this. Is a team that doesn't win the Superbowl for 13 years but still makes the playoffs, still has multiple runs of relevancy the same amount of "failure" as the Bills?

 

Numbers only play one part in your argument, you forgot the analysis part. The "negative" people aren't "right" because the Bills haven't won the Superbowl/made the playoffs in the last 13 years, but because of HOW the Bills have "failed".

 

But beyond that, I don't see anyone here claiming that it's impossible for the Bills to succeed under this new direction. I see a lot of people who are SKEPTICAL, and it's fair to be as such due to how our team has been run.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

"We didn't get into this to hope to win and sell hope."

 

That is an awesome quote.

 

Hope is all I have. What will they sell instead?

[Dorkington]

 

 

Hope is all I have. What will they sell instead?

 

It's a silly quote.

 

We don't have a recent winning past to sell. We don't have a record yet this season. So, really, logically speaking, all there is is hope, as one can't actually guarantee success in sports with 100% accuracy.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Dorkington

[Glory Bound]

Yeah, well unfortunately for Brandon and the rest of the front office weenies he has about as much credibility as a crack ho at this point.

 

Just shut up and have your team do it Russ! You've been talking for a decade and have been the most miserable team in the league over that stretch while hanging us out to dry based on the litany of all of your empty promises.

 

Here's one, if you really believe it, then put your job on the line Russ!!! How about if he doesn't win you quit?

After laboring through all you've written in this thread, I've come to the conclusion that you should switch over to decaf.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Brandon, at the very least, had a huge hand in picking Marrone. And so, the new team president needs the new HC to win or it reflects poorly on him.

 

John Madden is that you? I also understand the only way to win a football game is to score more points than the other team!

 

 

It's a silly quote.

 

We don't have a recent winning past to sell. We don't have a record yet this season. So, really, logically speaking, all there is is hope, as one can't actually guarantee success in sports with 100% accuracy.

 

I settle for you've never seen us try harder not to suck than you will this year.

 

 

Missed this...

 

The Bills had a solid mission statement 3/4 years ago at the beginning of the of the Chan/Nix era as well (at least on paper). I know a whole lot of us were excited about it. Chan's nifty offensive schemes, getting big beefy guys for the defense, running something other than the Tampa 2, and then hiring THE STACHE, oh man, things were looking up. Even the National Media was on our side! And then.... Womp Womp.

 

That's basically been my point. We get sold this wholesale change every few years, and then the results end up being the same. This team kind of reminds me of the team that last had the best shot of the playoffs for the Bills, so it should be fun at least.

 

I guess the silver lining is, we get to be excited about a new attempt at success every few years.

 

The one thing we can say is different, is instead of coaches refusing to interview for the job, there were multiple interested candidates considered candidates by a number of suitors. They also embraced the front office youth movement which was so obviously needed.

[Dorkington]

The one thing we can say is different, is instead of coaches refusing to interview for the job, there were multiple interested candidates considered candidates by a number of suitors. They also embraced the front office youth movement which was so obviously needed.

 

Very fair point.

[OCinBuffalo]

Ah, yes.... I'm lazy. Even though I *responded* to that quote already. (Meaning I read it, and what you responded to.)

 

The problem with your original assertion is that you assume 31 teams are "failures" because they didn't win the Superbowl. You back off a little by saying 20 teams are failures.

Oh cool. A live one.

 

Are you really telling me that your reading comprehension is this bad? "Backing off a little"? Wrong. That's called laying out a premise, by laying out a fact, and then, laying out another one, both of which support the premise. How in the Sam hell you read "backing off a little" into that...is well I don't know...delusion?

 

Let's have some fun with you/this: "there are 7 days in a week, (but, now, I'm going to back off a little, and say,) but, there are only 2 days in a weekend". Yes, I backed right off there. Now, in Dorkingtonland, we can infer that there aren't 7 days in a week, or, at least I'm not as committed to there being 7 as I once was, right? Yes, I've "backed off" that.

 

Heeheee...I have to put my damn phone on mute...because I'm LOLing for real here. Can't wait to read the rest of this hilarity you've been so kind to give me....

But let's actually look at this. Is a team that doesn't win the Superbowl for 13 years but still makes the playoffs, still has multiple runs of relevancy the same amount of "failure" as the Bills?

By all means, let's have a look! What else could possibly go wrong, eh, Dorkington?

 

I can't possibly answer that, because it is an entirely subjective measurement.

 

Is there are relevancy scale someplace? Is it like a Madden score? I don't know, perhaps we should consult ESPN (Insert Big City) and ask them if there's a reason why they aren't covering the Bills...and talking about relevancy...at the same time.

 

I mean seriously, your definition of relevancy could be miles away from the next guy's right? So how the hell I am I supposed to determine, never mind compare, "runs of relevancy"? Some people may see 1 SB as all that matters. If they win 1, and never make the playoffs in the other 12 years, so what? The range from these people, to the people that want to make the playoffs every year, and don't care about SB wins, and including everybody in between, with whatever definition they have?

 

See? I have no way of answering this: logically. IF the Bills were to win the SB this year, what does that do for the arguments of the negative people over the last 13? Nothing, Something, Everything? I can't answer that, because it's: subjective.

Numbers only play one part in your argument, you forgot the analysis part. The "negative" people aren't "right" because the Bills haven't won the Superbowl/made the playoffs in the last 13 years, but because of HOW the Bills have "failed".

Reading really isn't your friend, is it?

 

I did not miss the analysis part. In fact I specifically included and referred to it: http://forums.twobil...60#entry2860492 Yes, another link for you, lazy.

 

Me:

Thus, historically, but really, INEVITABLY, every fan of every team, who says their team will not make the playoffs, is more likely to be right, by a factor of 50%, than they are to be wrong. That is true BEFORE anybody considers, or has a chance to say anything about any player, coach, team. That is true for every team, and every fan.

 

Negative fans have Vegas house odds on their side from minute 1. Now, after we take that into account, we can talk about analysis. We cannot however completely ingore it, and pretend that there's a historical "trend" here that is completely unaffected by it. Again, that is magical thinking, and I will not tolerate it.

 

But beyond that, I don't see anyone here claiming that it's impossible for the Bills to succeed under this new direction. I see a lot of people who are SKEPTICAL, and it's fair to be as such due to how our team has been run.

And, if that was what I was responding to, you'd be right. It's not, so you're not.

 

I've already given you a link to exactly what I was responding to, and you are free to re-read it, if you still don't understand.

Edited August 5, 2013 by OCinBuffalo