Bills vow Doug Marrone will make them winners

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Here you go, and here. Not all Yahoo! sports writers are "experts"

 

I disagree with your connect-the-dots theory .

 

Mike Silver, Jeff Passan, Marc Spears, and Dan Wetzel, and Carpenter are all nationally-respected journalists.

 

Carpenter worked at the Washington Post and the Seattle Times.

 

All reporters at all levels are sometimes fed stories but I don't consider the Bills Carpenter piece to be fluff or a marketing/PR manipulation. The piece reports on the blow-by-blow and particular details of the Brandon hire and his head coaching search.

 

Brandon's optimism is to be expected. It was the first head coaching search that he exclusively led and he made the Marrone hire.

 

What do you expect his reaction to be?

[Sisyphean Bills]

I think you've come pretty close to nailing the Nix tenure. The only thing I'll add is that Buddy's relative failure is, in my opinion, largely characterized by the inability to add a franchise QB. The only obvious examples are passing on Kaepernick and Dalton in 2011 and Wilson in 2012, but that's been the issue.

 

If EJ turns out to be the guy, then I think the Nix era will end up a decidedly different animal, assuming Nix gets some of the credit for that pick.

 

Regardless of how Manuel turns out, there will always be a difference between going after what one wants and showing up a day late and a million dollars short.

[thebandit27]

I was not excited when I watched the Bills get beat by the Seahawks in Toronto by a score of 50-17. It might have been fun for you but for me it wasn't very entertaining. I grant you that being entertained isn't always about wins and losses. It has more to do with watching quality performances and competitive games regardless of the outcome. Most people will probably acknowldege that by the time the team enters the second half of the season the enthusiasm does start to wan and talk about the next draft spikes up.

 

There's a decided difference between feeling morose during and immediately after a 30-point beat-down versus using it as a platform to proclaim doom and gloom for the following season.

[papazoid]

 

 

WIN/LOSS RECORD BY YEAR

 

2006 - 7/9

2007 - 7/9

2008 - 7/9

2009 - 6/10 (buddy scout)

2010 - 4/12 (buddy GM)

2011 - 6/10 (buddy GM)

2012 - 6/10 (buddy GM)

 

You are what your record says you are. - Bill Parcells, Former NFL Coach, Superbowl Winner and Hall of Famer

 

#1- Wins & Losses - Nix did NOT improve the Bills in the most important category.

#2- Roster - improved slightly, but so did most of the other 31 NFL teams, some much more than the Bills.

#3- Entertainment - defense was totally dull and predictable. offense had very little long ball threat.

#4- Draft - very average. i'm not particularly impressed considering how high we picked. not much success in 2nd round.

 

 

as far as 2013, my reasons for optimism are #1- an ATTACKING style defense and #2- a QB (EJ) who can throw a nice deep ball.

 

unfortunately, our schedule is so much harder, i'm predicting a 5-11 record. but they will be much more fun to watch.

Edited August 7, 2013 by papazoid

[GG]

I disagree with your connect-the-dots theory .

 

Mike Silver, Jeff Passan, Marc Spears, and Dan Wetzel, and Carpenter are all nationally-respected journalists.

 

Carpenter worked at the Washington Post and the Seattle Times.

 

All reporters at all levels are sometimes fed stories but I don't consider the Bills Carpenter piece to be fluff or a marketing/PR manipulation. The piece reports on the blow-by-blow and particular details of the Brandon hire and his head coaching search.

 

Brandon's optimism is to be expected. It was the first head coaching search that he exclusively led and he made the Marrone hire.

 

What do you expect his reaction to be?

 

It doesn't matter where Carpenter used to work. You do realize that the most realistic career path for many journalists these days is to join a PR firm? Apparently Crapenter found a way where he can write PR stories in the guise of sports columns. Congrats to Yahoo! for tapping a new business line.

 

I fully expect Brandon to be excited and pumped up. Where did I criticize him for that? I'm criticizing his methods though. It also parallels the onslaught of media reaction after the Marrone hire, that even people who've never worked with Marrone had positive things to say. What they did have in common with Marrone was agency representation. How exactly did Shefter get the scoop at 2AM on a Sunday? Brandon is a marketing guy, first and foremost and he's doing his job obviously well, judging by the turnout at camp. Doesn't mean there isn't a little element of hucksterism to it. Maybe he studied PT Barnum in college.

 

The blow by blow particulars in the article were obviously spoon fed by the team, otherwise how would he know which hotel the team stayed at (I also hope Yahoo! got some love from Westin for the prominent product placements). The other thing that got me was the timeline that Carpenter referred to in the story, which hints that Marrone was the top choice all along and the other guys were barely interviewed. That doesn't quite mesh with the reporting that was going on at the time.

 

There's a decided difference between feeling morose during and immediately after a 30-point beat-down versus using it as a platform to proclaim doom and gloom for the following season.

 

No one is proclaiming doom and gloom. In fact there's more optimism about the team than in years. But given the history of this team over the last decade, it makes sense to temper the unbridled enthusiasm until they hit the field against real opponents.

[Gugny]

You are what your record says you are. - Bill Parcells, Former NFL Coach, Superbowl Winner and Hall of Famer

 

#1- Wins & Losses - Nix did NOT improve the Bills in the most important category.

#2- Roster - improved slightly, but so did most of the other 31 NFL teams, some much more than the Bills.

#3- Entertainment - defense was totally dull and predictable. offense had very little long ball threat.

#4- Draft - very average. i'm not particularly impressed considering how high we picked. not much success in 2nd round.

 

 

as far as 2013, my reasons for optimism are #1- an ATTACKING style defense and #2- a QB (EJ) who can throw a nice deep ball.

 

unfortunately, our schedule is so much harder, i'm predicting a 5-11 record. but they will be much more fun to watch.

I respectfully disagree. My explanation:

 

#1- Wins & Losses - Nix did NOT improve the Bills in the most important category.

Nix's failure here was hiring Gailey, so I'll agree with this one.

 

#2- Roster - improved slightly, but so did most of the other 31 NFL teams, some much more than the Bills.

I think it's premature to label Nix's roster-building a failure. Primarily because the coaching was so terrible.

 

#3- Entertainment - defense was totally dull and predictable. offense had very little long ball threat.

Again - this goes back to the Gailey hire, and subsequently, the Wannestadt hire. The offense, last year, was the most exciting I've seen it since the Kelly era.

 

#4- Draft - very average. i'm not particularly impressed considering how high we picked. not much success in 2nd round.

Way too early to judge Nix's drafts, but I don't see where he whiffed much/if at all. Beating the same drum ... it's hard to evaluate the talent when the coaching was so putrid.

[JohnC]

There's a decided difference between feeling morose during and immediately after a 30-point beat-down versus using it as a platform to proclaim doom and gloom for the following season.

 

I wasn't feeling morose. I simply didn't find it entertaining. In general, for me, last season was not very entertaining. The bad performances too much out weighed the good performances.

 

What is the basis for your conclusion that I am using last season as a platform for doom and gloom for the this season? The Bills are in a rebuilding mode. That I readily acknowledge.

Edited August 7, 2013 by JohnC

[uncle flap]

But given the history of this team over the last decade, it makes sense to temper the unbridled enthusiasm until they hit the field against real opponents.

 

I don't think the history over the past decade plays such a huge part in what's happening now.

 

I do agree it's valid to be skeptical and adopt an "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude.

 

What many here are criticizing is not your right to remain skeptical or pessimistic, they/we are criticizing that you and others have taken it upon yourselves to deem those who choose to be optimistic as naive, misinformed, or somehow less intelligent as those who choose to be skeptical.

 

The main point that you're missing is that all of the objective facts do NOT point to one conclusion. You may feel that they do, and others may feel that they don't. It's fine to think that people should curb their enthusiasm, but it's not your job to do it for them.

 

Although I don't see you using inflammatory language, I think it's fairly clear that you imply that those of us who disagree with you are simply incapable of reading the writing on the wall.

 

While one camp will be "right" in the end, why do some feel the need to take issue any and all seemingly positive developments related to the Bills? I alluded to this upthread, but I'll ask here: Is there anything that could happen prior to the games being played to make you optimistic? If the answer is, "No," because you're basing your stance on the past, why bother discussing events in the preseason? Just to knock those who form a different opinion? Or to "go on the record" so you can say you were right all along?

 

Different strokes...

Edited August 7, 2013 by uncle flap

[thebandit27]

 

No one is proclaiming doom and gloom. In fact there's more optimism about the team than in years. But given the history of this team over the last decade, it makes sense to temper the unbridled enthusiasm until they hit the field against real opponents.

 

Of course it makes sense to temper unbridled optimism (not enthusiasm; IMO, if you're a fan of the team, you'll be enthused about seeing them play, but again, just my opinion)...and yes, many posters are indeed proclaiming doom and gloom. I know you've seen the first 2 pages of this thread among others, rife with posters proclaiming to "just prove it on the field"...in early August.

 

My over-riding point: it's okay to be optimistic, excited, reserved, cautious, etc. It's more than a bit silly, IMO, to feel the need to reign in others based on them feeling different. I'm not saying you in particular do it, but a lot of people do, and my observation is that it's almost always the more negative posters that do so.

 

I wasn't feeling morose. I simply didn't find it entertaining. In general, for me, last season was not very entertaining. The bad performances too much out weighed the good performances.

 

What is the basis for your conclusion that I am using last season as a platform for doom and gloom for the this season? The Bills are in a rebuilding mode. That I readily acknowledge.

 

I didn't say that you were. You responded to my comment to BillsVet with an example of why you weren't excited about the team. I clarified what I meant by my comment.

 

That is all.

[GG]

Of course it makes sense to temper unbridled optimism (not enthusiasm; IMO, if you're a fan of the team, you'll be enthused about seeing them play, but again, just my opinion)...and yes, many posters are indeed proclaiming doom and gloom. I know you've seen the first 2 pages of this thread among others, rife with posters proclaiming to "just prove it on the field"...in early August.

 

My over-riding point: it's okay to be optimistic, excited, reserved, cautious, etc. It's more than a bit silly, IMO, to feel the need to reign in others based on them feeling different. I'm not saying you in particular do it, but a lot of people do, and my observation is that it's almost always the more negative posters that do so.

 

I'll defer to my 7-yr old's stock answer, "but they started it first" While there may be some people who are more negative by nature (it is a WNY board after all), if we go through March - August posts over the last five years, you will see the same dynamic. There are a handful of posters who love to jump on threads where anyone brings forth a reasonable risk and who don't buy the company line. As in, What do you mean that Demetrious Bell can't play LT? So what if Maybin only looked good in one half season of play? It's no problem to do a 180 on the defensive front, because we have a SuperBowl winning defensive coordinator running the defense now. Do you really think that message board posters know more than the professionals running this team?

 

Sound familiar? Look no further than the Glenn to LG thread. To some, it's no big deal. To others it's a subtle admission that not addressing the spot in the offseason could be a major mistake, especially when you are going to put a franchise rookie QB behind that line. Yet anyone who questioned the handling of the LG spot was sure to get a snarky response from the usual suspects. I just got tired of the sameness this year.

 

PS - I hate the team so much that I'm going to the home opener for the first time in six years.

[eball]

PS - I hate the team so much that I'm going to the home opener for the first time in six years.

 

Well you can't really cover it for the paper if you're not there...can you?

 

By the way, nobody said you hate the team -- you just hate the fans.

[GG]

Well you can't really cover it for the paper if you're not there...can you?

 

By the way, nobody said you hate the team -- you just hate the fans.

 

Don't get too carried away with your self importance. Hatred would indicate an emotional attachment. Annoyed, as with a fruit fly, is the more apt description.

[eball]

Don't get too carried away with your self importance. Hatred would indicate an emotional attachment. Annoyed, as with a fruit fly, is the more apt description.

 

Don't worry, I'm not under the perception I'm important to this board. But I do get a kick out of highlighting the biases of others, particularly when those folks try to make other posters look or feel stupid.

[BuffOrange]

Let's jog down memory lane and recall the trashing that Fergy got last August for suggesting that Wanny's defensive schemes may have a glaring weakness. Or how about when people pointed out Bills' early wins in 2011 were built mostly on turnovers and would be hard to sustain over the season?

 

The running joke of what's sustainable is definitely in the Sunshiners Hall of Shame. Right up there with "Where are all the Pat Williams fans now?" after the David Carr game, and the "You tards are so impatient with JP".

Interestingly, none of these threads are ever bumped/re-visited; despite those claiming the "doom/gloomers" care more about being right than seeing their team win (unlike the sustainability point which was gleefully mocked after the Redskins game in Toronto).

One of these years I suppose they'll have to be right. The wheel just can't land on black 25 times in a row.

[thebandit27]

I'll defer to my 7-yr old's stock answer, "but they started it first" While there may be some people who are more negative by nature (it is a WNY board after all), if we go through March - August posts over the last five years, you will see the same dynamic. There are a handful of posters who love to jump on threads where anyone brings forth a reasonable risk and who don't buy the company line. As in, What do you mean that Demetrious Bell can't play LT? So what if Maybin only looked good in one half season of play? It's no problem to do a 180 on the defensive front, because we have a SuperBowl winning defensive coordinator running the defense now. Do you really think that message board posters know more than the professionals running this team?

 

Sound familiar? Look no further than the Glenn to LG thread. To some, it's no big deal. To others it's a subtle admission that not addressing the spot in the offseason could be a major mistake, especially when you are going to put a franchise rookie QB behind that line. Yet anyone who questioned the handling of the LG spot was sure to get a snarky response from the usual suspects. I just got tired of the sameness this year.

 

PS - I hate the team so much that I'm going to the home opener for the first time in six years.

 

Ummm, I don't recall implying anything even remotely suggesting that you hate the team...

 

And I tend to disagree with the March-August dynamic...it's at least 50/50

[yungmack]

 

I guess it isn't simple, or you are just being obtuse. But I will try once more. I do not know what Brandon thinks. Either do you I assume. But your assumption that Brandon thinks Marrone will be a good coach is logical and is probably true. But no matter what he thinks, he is only going to make statements that help ticket sales, not hurt them. That's what he gets paid to do, make Mr. Wilson money. So when you hear a marketing person talk like that, it really doesn't mean much. That is my only point. I am saying nothing about what Brandon really thinks because I have no idea.

Why would he make negative statements about Marrone's ability if he believes the guy is the right man for the job? Your argument seems to come down to this: Brandon's job is to "sell tickets" (BTW, the job of any executive in any business), so anything he says is suspect. That's a defensible position. But then things go a couple of klicks further down the highway to where Brandon's remarks aren't just suspect, the guy is a lowdown liar if he says anything positive. Maybe I'm misreading the discussion, but that's my impression after reading all the criticisms.

[CodeMonkey]

One of these years I suppose they'll have to be right. The wheel just can't land on black 25 times in a row.

The way the NFL goes out of it's way to achieve parity among teams, one would have thought 13 times was impossible.

 

Why would he make negative statements about Marrone's ability if he believes the guy is the right man for the job? Your argument seems to come down to this: Brandon's job is to "sell tickets" (BTW, the job of any executive in any business), so anything he says is suspect. That's a defensible position. But then things go a couple of klicks further down the highway to where Brandon's remarks aren't just suspect, the guy is a lowdown liar if he says anything positive. Maybe I'm misreading the discussion, but that's my impression after reading all the criticisms.

No you are basically correct. Being a marketing man he won't, as you stated, say anything negative. So if he won't say anything negative, how can you take it too seriously when he says something positive? This isn't just Brandon I'm talking about, but anyone in sales or marketing .... particularly successful ones like Brandon.

 

As an example, when all of the car companies in the world put ads on TV stating that their particular car is the best thing on the market. Are they all? Ads come from marketing guys people (no reason to be sexist ).

Edited August 7, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[GG]

Don't worry, I'm not under the perception I'm important to this board. But I do get a kick out of highlighting the biases of others, particularly when those folks try to make other posters look or feel stupid.

 

I can't help it if some posters needs things explained to them in extra detail.

 

Ummm, I don't recall implying anything even remotely suggesting that you hate the team...

 

That PS wasn't necessarily directed at you. As you can see, it can get tiring replying to each post, so I lumped the responses into a single post.

[K-9]

Man the kool-aid drinkers are out in force in this thread. Sleep easy guys knowing that Ralph Wilson loves you all.

 

 

I don't have great expectations for this year. Anything better then what Gailey did in his first season would show an improvement.

 

Sunshiners, kool-aid drinkers, etc. etc. Do you not see how that is condescending and insulting to those that see things in a more optimistic light? As if you are privy to some keen insight about the team that the rest of us are just incapable of understanding because we choose to have a positive outlook? Why do you feel compelled to put people down?

 

I have my theories but I thought I'd give you a chance to explain.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

There's a decided difference between feeling morose during and immediately after a 30-point beat-down versus using it as a platform to proclaim doom and gloom for the following season.

 

Use as a platform or bludgeoning tool?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[tennesseeboy]

Right now its not negative...its not positive. Its NOTHING untl they play a few games. We can speculate, and there is probably more room for negative speculation given EJ's performance to date, Mario's constant litany of excuses, and the failure to add much of significance to a six win team. Positive? Manuel has shown some success, we have some new receivers, and a new coach to replace a very bad one. All in all we'll have a better take on this team after 3 or 4 games.