Bills vow Doug Marrone will make them winners

[eball]

Let's focus a little bit on the distinctions and what my comments were about. I don't think the Bills will be the worst team in the league this year. The silver linings on defense are enough to eek out a few more wins. But there are still many questions surrounding this team and no one really knows how the rookie coach will handle the big leagues. History isn't kind to first time coaches.

 

I also get a kick out of the sunshiners' annual lovefest with the team's new direction. I get it, it's a fan site and there's always a reason to be optimistic about your team, especially when this time it looks to be different. But there's nothing in the past performance of this team that should indicate that suddenly the front office has seen the light.

 

What really got me is that the sunshiners love to bash the local press who are paid to be objective in covering the team. Then they bring in opinions of the national press guys under the pretense that the national press doesn't have an axe to grind with OBD and will be more objective. If you look at the history though, the local press has been more right than not when looking into a rear view mirror.

 

I also don't fault Brandon & Co for putting out the positive spin on the eve of the season. It's his job. But I also think the team has gone into overdrive in using the media to push their rebuilding. Please don't try to sell the Yahoo piece as a piece of journalism. It was an extension of the Bills' PR department and people should see the article for what it was. Again, would people give it the same consideration if it was written by Chris Brown or Scott Berchtold?

 

The very fact you feel the need to use the term "sunshiners" exposes your disgust for the "stupid" fans who want to feel good about the way things are moving.

 

If I didn't know any better I'd suggest you're Jerry Sullivan using a pseudonym. He hates the fans also.

[K-9]

Let's focus a little bit on the distinctions and what my comments were about. I don't think the Bills will be the worst team in the league this year. The silver linings on defense are enough to eek out a few more wins. But there are still many questions surrounding this team and no one really knows how the rookie coach will handle the big leagues. History isn't kind to first time coaches.

 

I also get a kick out of the sunshiners' annual lovefest with the team's new direction. I get it, it's a fan site and there's always a reason to be optimistic about your team, especially when this time it looks to be different. But there's nothing in the past performance of this team that should indicate that suddenly the front office has seen the light.

 

What really got me is that the sunshiners love to bash the local press who are paid to be objective in covering the team. Then they bring in opinions of the national press guys under the pretense that the national press doesn't have an axe to grind with OBD and will be more objective. If you look at the history though, the local press has been more right than not when looking into a rear view mirror.

 

I also don't fault Brandon & Co for putting out the positive spin on the eve of the season. It's his job. But I also think the team has gone into overdrive in using the media to push their rebuilding. Please don't try to sell the Yahoo piece as a piece of journalism. It was an extension of the Bills' PR department and people should see the article for what it was. Again, would people give it the same consideration if it was written by Chris Brown or Scott Berchtold?

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I had typed out a lengthy and carefully considered reply, and then I thought, "Phuck it. It'sv a moot point."

 

I'll just say this. Whether the Bills go 0-16 or 19-0 it won't make much of difference in how anyone here conducts their lives. While there may be a faction of younger, naive fans who need to cling to every ray of hope uttered by the Bills organization, the vast majority of us know what the score is. We get it.

 

There was an article some time ago that said that for the 25 year period of 1960-1984, the Bills were the least winning franchise across all four major sports leagues in America. Literally the WORST team in sports. Yet we still loved them and hoped that the next year would be the one. Did that make us stupid?

 

So I don't understand this compulsion for some around here to insult others that choose to remain optimistic. Especially in pre-season when nothing has been proven on the field. It's no skin off anyone's ass if I chose to hope that they win the SB every year. So why would anyone suggest that my choice is a wrong choice?

 

I have my theories and that's why I chose not to elaborate.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Tipster19]

The very fact you feel the need to use the term "sunshiners" exposes your disgust for the "stupid" fans who want to feel good about the way things are moving.

 

If I didn't know any better I'd suggest you're Jerry Sullivan using a pseudonym. He hates the fans also.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I had typed out a lengthy and carefully considered reply, and then I thought, "Phuck it. It'sv a moot point."

 

I'll just say this. Whether the Bills go 0-16 or 19-0 it won't make much of difference in how anyone here conducts their lives. While there may be a faction of younger, naive fans who need to cling to every ray of hope uttered by the Bills organization, the vast majority of us know what the score is. We get it.

 

There was an article some time ago that said that for the 25 year period of 1960-1984, the Bills were the least winning franchise across all four major sports leagues in America. Literally the WORST team in sports. Yet we still loved them and hoped that the next year would be the one. Did that make us stupid?

 

So I don't understand this compulsion for some around here to insult others that choose to remain optimistic. Especially in pre-season when nothing has been proven on the field. It's no skin off anyone's ass if I chose to hope that they win the SB every year. So why would anyone suggest that my choice is a wrong choice?

 

I have my theories and that's why I chose not to elaborate.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Amen! Why can't we just enjoy this team/franchise for what it is and who they are? If Bills' fans want to hold them to championship standards then the Bills will surely fail but if they are accepted for who and what they are then they stand a chance of exceeding your expectations.

[GG]

The very fact you feel the need to use the term "sunshiners" exposes your disgust for the "stupid" fans who want to feel good about the way things are moving.

 

If I didn't know any better I'd suggest you're Jerry Sullivan using a pseudonym. He hates the fans also.

 

Any reason you put stupid in quotes? I never saw anyone in this thread use the term, except you.

[eball]

Any reason you put stupid in quotes? I never saw anyone in this thread use the term, except you.

 

You've implied as much, and you've used the term in other threads. In any event, it's clearly how you feel judging by your posts and "analysis."

 

(note the quotation marks for emphasis)

[papazoid]

if this team went 19-0, i would conduct my life different.

 

for starters, it would be hard to wipe the smile off my face.

[GG]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I had typed out a lengthy and carefully considered reply, and then I thought, "Phuck it. It'sv a moot point."

 

I'll just say this. Whether the Bills go 0-16 or 19-0 it won't make much of difference in how anyone here conducts their lives. While there may be a faction of younger, naive fans who need to cling to every ray of hope uttered by the Bills organization, the vast majority of us know what the score is. We get it.

 

There was an article some time ago that said that for the 25 year period of 1960-1984, the Bills were the least winning franchise across all four major sports leagues in America. Literally the WORST team in sports. Yet we still loved them and hoped that the next year would be the one. Did that make us stupid?

 

So I don't understand this compulsion for some around here to insult others that choose to remain optimistic. Especially in pre-season when nothing has been proven on the field. It's no skin off anyone's ass if I chose to hope that they win the SB every year. So why would anyone suggest that my choice is a wrong choice?

 

I have my theories and that's why I chose not to elaborate.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I also have a very lengthy reply that I will not write, because the ground has been covered in multiple other threads. But as some of the other newly titled "realists" have noted, the ire is directed not at every optimistic fan, but at the select few, who over the years have reflexively defended every move by the organization and have called the more negative posters out for not being true fans.

 

There is a lot of optimism about this team heading into this training camp. But there are major questions as well, and every time someone brings up a rational question about the team or a particular player, they will almost certainly elicit a response from the OBD apologists. It's a familiar outcry. You can't be a real fan if you dare question the professionals who run this football team. Let's jog down memory lane and recall the trashing that Fergy got last August for suggesting that Wanny's defensive schemes may have a glaring weakness. Or how about when people pointed out Bills' early wins in 2011 were built mostly on turnovers and would be hard to sustain over the season?

 

I think the only difference this year is that the "realists" are fighting back more vocally than in the past and it gets feathers ruffled.

 

I am fighting back because people's reputations and professions are getting unduly trashed.

[eball]

I also have a very lengthy reply that I will not write, because the ground has been covered in multiple other threads. But as some of the other newly titled "realists" have noted, the ire is directed not at every optimistic fan, but at the select few, who over the years have reflexively defended every move by the organization and have called the more negative posters out for not being true fans.

 

There is a lot of optimism about this team heading into this training camp. But there are major questions as well, and every time someone brings up a rational question about the team or a particular player, they will almost certainly elicit a response from the OBD apologists. It's a familiar outcry. You can't be a real fan if you dare question the professionals who run this football team. Let's jog down memory lane and recall the trashing that Fergy got last August for suggesting that Wanny's defensive schemes may have a glaring weakness. Or how about when people pointed out Bills' early wins in 2011 were built mostly on turnovers and would be hard to sustain over the season?

 

I think the only difference this year is that the "realists" are fighting back more vocally than in the past and it gets feathers ruffled.

 

I am fighting back because people's reputations and professions are getting unduly trashed.

 

You're also calling posters who don't do what you've suggested above stupid in other threads, simply for not agreeing with your position.

 

But again, thanks for posting, Jerry (or is it Timmah?). We enjoy hearing the TBN perspective on things.

[Best Player Available]

if this team went 19-0, i would conduct my life different.

 

for starters, it would be hard to wipe the smile off my face.

My God man, have you no sympathy for Don Schula and Bob Griese's feelings if that happened?

[K-9]

... I am fighting back because people's reputations and professions are getting unduly trashed.

 

I assume you're talking about your defense of the media?

 

When journalists and other media professionals put their work out there for public consumption, it is going to be critiqued. As would the work of anyone, including players, coaches and other executives of professional sports teams. It's the nature of the beast. If some, like Tim Graham for instance, are constantly chafed at that reality, I suggest they find another profession rather than literally ARGUE with the very consumers they depend on and whose right it is to criticize.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GG]

I assume you're talking about your defense of the media?

 

When journalists and other media professionals put their work out there for public consumption, it is going to be critiqued. As would the work of anyone, including players, coaches and other executives of professional sports teams. It's the nature of the beast. If some, like Tim Graham for instance, are constantly chafed at that reality, I suggest they find another profession rather than literally ARGUE with the very consumers they depend on and whose right it is to criticize.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Yes, I am talking about the defense of the media and yes it started with the jw/Marrone explosion. People reflexively blamed jw for the altercation, yet when more of the story came out, he was the bigger professional than Marrone. But it snowballed from there and the criticism morphed into the usual blaming of the media for the sad state of the franchise. Media criticism is warranted and I don't particularly care for the breakdown of the fourth wall that LA described a few months back. I think that Graham went a little overboard in running with his story, but that's just his petulant nature as we've witnessed first hand. But the guy does produce good stories. I don't think Sullivan is a great sports columnist, but he's very adept at riding the WNY emotions over the Bills and Sabres. But I don't think that the local press have this sinister motivation to write crap about the local teams. That's not what they're paid to do. And that's why Brando & Co resort to spoonfeeding PR outfits to sell the corporate line. How many people on this board do not work for a company that isn't a "a forward-thinking and aggressive organization," or doesn't "Empower people to make important decisions?"

 

I guess that's why I don't see an overriding need to start threads about the media, or to follow them on twitter, or announce to the world that the reporter had the temerity to block me on twitter.

[K-9]

... I guess that's why I don't see an overriding need to start threads about the media or to follow them on twitter, or announce to the world that the reporter had the temerity to block me on twitter.

 

And yet you seem to have an overriding need to respond to them. Not to mention the compulsion to vigorously defend those that are criticized.

 

I'm surprised at your lack of appreciation for the consumer's right to criticize the product they are buying and to scrutinize those that are selling it to them when you have no compunction about doing just that about the product the Bills are selling and to those who are selling it.

 

Anyway, good luck with your fight. I'm sure the local media appreciates it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited August 6, 2013 by K-9

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

I'm sure he will win something, I just don't see enough talent on the Team to compete with the Big Boys of the NFL. It's not Marrone's fault if they can't win. It's management's fault. Overpaying crybabies (Williams) and Not signing good players (Levitre and Byrd). Gotta put good players out there not 1st and 2nd year guys and expecting them to be world beaters!

 

World beaters... Maybe not. But look at the Seahawks, Colts and Skins last season. It's possible for a young team to compete and be a post season contender. Just that would be a full circle change from what has been.

[eball]

And yet you seem to have an overriding need to respond to them. Not to mention the compulsion to vigorously defend those that are criticized.

 

I'm surprised at your lack of appreciation for the consumer's right to criticize the product they are buying and to scrutinize those that are selling it to them when you have no compunction about doing just that about the product the Bills are selling and to those who are selling it.

 

Anyway, good luck with your fight. I'm sure the local media appreciates it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Well said, K-9. Pot, meet kettle.

[CodeMonkey]

if this team went 19-0, i would conduct my life different.

 

for starters, it would be hard to wipe the smile off my face.

If ???? Queue the Senator!

[bills44]

"Realists".

 

Haha.

[GG]

And yet you seem to have an overriding need to respond to them. Not to mention the compulsion to vigorously defend those that are criticized.

 

I'm surprised at your lack of appreciation for the consumer's right to criticize the product they are buying and to scrutinize those that are selling it to them when you have no compunction about doing just that about the product the Bills are selling and to those who are selling it.

 

Anyway, good luck with your fight. I'm sure the local media appreciates it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Maybe it's my lone ranger quest to right a wrong. If I see someone's reputation unfairly trashed, I feel a need to respond to correct the fallacy. Why do you think jw jumps into the fray. Even Graham left here largely not because he was getting trashed, but because a colleague was getting trashed. Same with Lori.

 

As for a consumer's rights to criticize a product, what do you think the critics of the Buffalo Bills have been doing for 12 years? What do you think is the main reason people are increasingly annoyed that this has been the driest spell between winning seasons and playoff appearances in the franchise history. There absolutely is an expectation to criticize an inferior product. But the criticism has to be proper and not misdirected in a scattershot approach.

 

I've been more vocal about it this year, because frankly I got tired of seeing the same pollyannas trash other fans for not having a positive outlook, without providing a tangible reason other than, "Well, this time it's different." You know, the same people who were calling out posters who didn't think that elevating Wannstedt to defensive coordinator was an improvement. The same people who suddenly saw the light and called Wannstedt a disaster a few months later.

 

Who knows, maybe this year is different. But this franchise has done very little over the decade to inspire confidence, and Brandon pulling PR machinations to rouse up the fan base will do nothing to the product on the field.

Edited August 6, 2013 by GG

[yungmack]

I never said that Brandon selling tickets is a bad thing. That's his job and he has been damn good doing it.

Simply stating my opinion that when marketing boy Brandon makes a statement this his shiny new coach is going to take a team that has been bad for 13 seasons and turn them into winners, it is a PR statement to sell tickets. No more, no less. Pretty simple actually.

So your theory is that Brandon knows that Marrone will stink up the joint and is just shuckin' and jivin' to sell tickets? That he has no faith, no hope in Marrone whatsoever and is just tossing the bull to the ignorant fan base?

 

I don't know, but I think Brandon probably believes Marrone is, in fact, going to be a winning coach and return the Bills to the plus side of the ledger. If he doesn't, if he thinks the guy is no good, then he's either terribly cynical or insane. Your opinion only makes sense if he doesn't believe in Marrone.

[K-9]

Maybe it's my lone ranger quest to right a wrong. If I see someone's reputation unfairly trashed, I feel a need to respond to correct the fallacy. Why do you think jw jumps into the fray. Even Graham left here largely not because he was getting trashed, but because a colleague was getting trashed. Same with Lori.

 

As for a consumer's rights to criticize a product, what do you think the critics of the Buffalo Bills have been doing for 12 years? What do you think is the main reason people are increasingly annoyed that this has been the driest spell between winning seasons and playoff appearances in the franchise history. There absolutely is an expectation to criticize an inferior product. But the criticism has to be proper and not misdirected in a scattershot approach.

 

I've been more vocal about it this year, because frankly I got tired of seeing the same pollyannas trash other fans for not having a positive outlook, without providing a tangible reason other than, "Well, this time it's different." You know, the same people who were calling out posters who didn't think that elevating Wannstedt to defensive coordinator was an improvement. The same people who suddenly saw the light and called Wannstedt a disaster a few months later.

 

Who knows, maybe this year is different. But this franchise has done very little over the decade to inspire confidence, and Brandon pulling PR machinations to rouse up the fan base will do nothing to the product on the field.

 

Trashing reputations? Really? I'm quite sure the reputations of those that cover the Bills haven't been trashed, tarnished, or otherwise negatively impacted by the ramblings of posters in a fan forum. I don't even think that's possible. Have they been adversely effected professionally as a result? Are the Bills or anyone else denying them access as a result of the criticism of their work found here?

 

I don't know why John jumps into the fray but I respect his election to do so. John also likes to contribute in other conversations as well so perhaps he finds some redeeming value in being here. I don't know. And as much as I still miss Lori, it was her decision to leave and I respect that, too. However, the more Graham reveals his character through other outlets, the more I'm convinced he left here just to meed out some sort of imagined "I'll show them and take my ball and go home" mentality. He strikes me as extremely thin-skinned while jumping to conclusions about every perceived slight, large or small or non-existent.

 

I don't care if you or anyone else has a positive outlook or not. It's your choice and given the futility of this organization for most of its existence, it's understandable. But there is never a need to decry optimism in others, let alone insult them for it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited August 6, 2013 by K-9

[Ramius]

It is people like you i wish would find another team.

I also wonder what you would do if/when the Bills win a SB. At what point during the season will you go from negative Nancy to bandwagon Bill??

 

BillsVet tends to make himself scarce when the Bills are winning. When we started hot in 2011, he was nowhere to be found on these forums. Until we started losing.