jahnyc Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Another example of really poor planning by the front office. They could not have been surprised by the offers that Levitre received in free agency and they had plenty of time to reach a deal with Levitre well before he became a free agent. Most importantly, the front office lkely knew that Levitre would leave. They also knew that there was not an adequate replacement on the roster, so they needed to find a free agent replacement or select a guard in the draft. Signing a back-up guard from the Steelers is not addressing the situation, and the o-line will suffer this year as a result. There really is no excuse for this. The Bills are more than $20 million under the salary cap and they had time to prepare for and address this situation. I also do not buy into the theory that Bills did not try to re-sign Levitre because they know they would need to re-sign other pending free agents, including Byrd. Looks like there is a good chance we will lose Byrd in the next year or two as well.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 No it's not because urbik, pears, Hairston and legursky are backups. They aren't starters and never will be nfl caliber starting linemen. They are warm bodies to put in when a starter goes down. Levitre is a starter. Too bad it's in tx. Woods is a starter but the OL is so ****ty he has to do too much and it puts him in awkward positions where he gets injured. He'll get hurt again this year being out of position trying to figure out which pos to help urbik or whatever burger flipper gets put at lg where a pro bowler used to live. Glenn showed promise early but sucked donkey balls late. He better get off the fuzzy nut or kolb then the new shiny toy will be wrecked. RT is a lost cause. Nowhere on this team can you find an average RT. It's gonna be year 14 in the ongoing train wreck. Shiny toys are not coming to the rescue no matter how many homers think so. Were two guards an above average tackle and two capable backups away from a solid OL. All the sunshine boys will be disappointed again. 3 wins will be impressive for this shitpile. I will say this, I think Urbik is a starter with Levitre at the other guard. His value decreases without a high quality starter on the other side. Having a rock at LG made the rest of the line a little bit better. Isolated, Levitre isn't an $8M player, but that doesn't take into account his impact on the entire performance of the line.
thewildrabbit Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Dunno why some of you put such low value on the guard position. Because as I see things it was the dominance of a guard that helped OJ get his 2000 yards. The first ever RB in the NFL to hit that 2000 yard mark, and he was a Buffalo Bill. Guard Joe DeLamielleure a 1st round pick, the 6x time NFL pro bowler who was a central figure in that famed "electric co" O line that paved the way for OJ. He is on the Buffalo Bills wall of fame, and also in the NFL hall of fame. Who is Billy Shaw again? A 2nd round pick at guard that played in the AFL for the Buffalo Bills back in the 60's when the Buffalo Bills won 2 AFL championships, and although he never played in the NFL... yet he is still in the pro football NFL hall of fame. A guy who is on the Buffalo Bills wall of fame. Look at the names in that 65 chamionship line Stew Barber, Billy Shaw, Dave Behrman, Al Bemiller, Dick Hudson, and ALL first team all pro Jim Ritcher, a 1st round pick by Chuck Knox in 1980 who went on to play 14 seasons as a guard for the Buffalo Bills. A 2x pro bowler who not only helped Knox get to the playoffs. But he also helped the 90 Bills get to 4 super bowls. In my view he was instrumental in helping RB Thurman Thomas get into the NFL hall of fame. Guard Jim Ritcher and center Kent Hull are both on the Buffalo Bills wall, and in my view should both be in the NFL hall of fame. I think the main reason as to why the Bills have failed to win games is not only their lack of a top QB. Its also the lack of a decent O line to help any of their QB's achieve success. How many #1 picks and high draft picks have been spent on DB's the last 13 years and how much success have they had because of all those DB's? 24 DB's drafted since 2000. Only 16 O linemen taken in that same time period and most of those were later round picks. Exactly how many #1's or #2's of each? 2000 DE-DB 2001 DB-DE / RB 2002 T-WR / DE 2003 RB-DE 2004 WR-QB 2005 WR-TE 2006 DB-DT 2007 RB-LB 2008 DB-WR 2009 DE-C / DB-G 2010 RB-DT 2011 DT-DB 2012 DB-T 2013 QB-WR / ILB 7 DB's selected in the first and second rounds over the last 13 years, and only 4 O line players taken in the first two rounds over that same time period. Mike Williams in 2002. recently Eric Wood, Andy Levitre in 2009, Cordy Glenn in 2012. Think about how many years went by while the bills neglected that line. Somewhere along the lines the Bills keep forgetting what brought them the success of the 60's and 90's, and its not drafting multiple DB's every other year.
K-9 Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Billy Shaw, Joe DeLamielleure, Jim Richter, Andy Levitre. One of these is not like the others. GO BILLS!!! Edited August 5, 2013 by K-9
papazoid Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Billy Shaw, Joe DeLamielleure, Jim Richter, Andy Levitre. One of these is not like the others. GO BILLS!!! only one is still playing ?
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Not worried about the OlinE at all. Edited August 5, 2013 by BuffaloFood
thewildrabbit Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Billy Shaw, Joe DeLamielleure, Jim Richter, Andy Levitre. One of these is not like the others. GO BILLS!!! only one is still playing ? The thing is, just like a QB needs time to develop (3-4 years) sometimes it does take a few years for all NFL players to hit their prime and fully develop their respective skills. Take OG Jim Ritcher for example, a guy who was drafted in the first round in 1980 and 16th overall. Ritcher played on special teams and filled in here and there but didn't actually become a starter until 1983, almost four years after being drafted. Granted they already had guys at guard position on the roster like Conrad Dobler, Reggie McKenzie, Jon Borchardt. Reggie was another very good guard for the Buffalo Bills and only made all pro once in his career. So this is an example of what some other posters have pointed out, that unlike recent coaching staffs, Chuck Knox planned for the future. Basically Knox didn't draft Ritcher for a specific need like a lot of other coaches might have done. He saw a talent and drafted him for the future needs of the team. Recognizing that teams need quality backups on the line, and for special teams. Andy Levitre might not be the very best OG in the NFL at this point in time. But he had one thing in common with those other names, Shaw, Delamielleure, Ritcher, and that is he happened to be very durable in his time with the Bills. Which is exceedingly important in giving a players time to develop his skills and the proper continuity with his fellow linemen. Center Eric Wood might be a better overall player then Levitre at this point. But Levitre is now playing for Tennessee Titan HC Mike Munchak. Who, if ya didn't know was a #1 pick for the Houston Oilers in 1982, a 10x time pro bowl left guard, and is in the pro football hall of fame. So if anyone can help Levitre become a better player I would think it would be Munchak. Now only that, what does it tell you how about the situation knowing Munchak's history of playing LG at such a high level and wanting Andy Levitre for that same position. Strange how the Titans didn't think they were over paying for a guard when they signed Levitre away from Buffalo. Not only that, the Titans also selected Alabama guard Chance Warmack with their #1 pick this year.
NewEra Posted August 5, 2013 Posted August 5, 2013 Not worried about the OlinE at all. Not sure why. I think our Oline play is the 2nd most important factor this year (behind stopping the run). If they don't perform, it's gonna be ugly.
papazoid Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 #1- who's to say any of them will want to sign with buffalo ? #2- spiller thru 2015 and freddy thru 2014 are signed long term already (see below) #3- in order I value Levitre, Wood then Byrd Levitre is an absolute proven stud who is durable. was our BEST OL last year. should have signed him sooner for $7 mil/yr. would rather have him over wood and bryd. Wood is an above average center who is injury prone, but worth keeping long term at $6 mil/yr Byrd is a top ten safety worth at best $8 mil/yr. the main reason he got tagged instead of Levitre is that the safety tag value is significantly lower than OL and the Bills had to protect only one. Spiller is a game breaker. his prospects took a hit with Levitre out. he is already signed long term thru 2015: 8/6/2010: Signed a six-year, $39.3 million contract. The deal contains $20.8 million guaranteed. Another $12.5 million is available through incentives, roughly $12 million of which are available in the final year. Spiller is eligible for an annual $250,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2,623,334, 2014: $1,748,750, 2015: $2,196,663, 2016: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5566/cj-spiller Freddy 5/7/2012: Signed a three-year, $10.805 million contract thru 2014. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus. Another $2.3 million is available through incentives based on stats, Pro Bowls, and playoff berths. Jackson is eligible for an annual $100,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2.15 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus due in March + $150,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2014: $2.45 million (+ $93,750 in per-game roster bonuses), 2015: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4506/fred-jackson Chandler is a lousy blocker and has average hands. he benefited from Fitz inability to throw deep. wouldn't miss him except we have chit behind him. currently TE is weakest position on team. in all of the discussion about how to utilize the bills current avail cap space of about $22 million, don't forget about future increases in the cap for Mario Williams: 2012: $9.8 2013: $12.4 2014: $18.4 2015: $19.0 2016: $19.9 2017: $16.5 2018: UFA http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mario-williams/
eball Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 in all of the discussion about how to utilize the bills current avail cap space of about $22 million, don't forget about future increases in the cap for Mario Williams: 2012: $9.8 2013: $12.4 2014: $18.4 2015: $19.0 2016: $19.9 2017: $16.5 2018: UFA http://www.spotrac.c...mario-williams/ Presuming (and I know it's a big "if") Mario plays well this year and next, I'd certainly expect a re-structuring/extension that eases that cap burden. After all, at that time the Bills are going to need to find $20M+ per season to pay our superstar QB, EJ Manuel.
The Big Cat Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 So Levitre is the only starter not returning next year. And if I was a betting man, I'd put money on Sanders or Marrone's boy Chibane winning the LG spot. Do people really think the line will suffer THAT much by comparison??
Malazan Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 They could not have been surprised by the offers that Levitre received in free agency and they had plenty of time to reach a deal with Levitre well before he became a free agent. So the Bills front office knew, but Levitre and his agent were somehow unaware? Levitre made it clear very early that he was going to test the free agent market and the Bills would need to match the price.
K-9 Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 So the Bills front office knew, but Levitre and his agent were somehow unaware? Levitre made it clear very early that he was going to test the free agent market and the Bills would need to match the price. "Once in a lifetime opportunity." The Bills had NO chance other than to make him the highest paid G in the league BEFORE he hit free agency. And that's way too much for half a guard. GO BILLS!!!
NewEra Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 So Levitre is the only starter not returning next year. And if I was a betting man, I'd put money on Sanders or Marrone's boy Chibane winning the LG spot. Do people really think the line will suffer THAT much by comparison?? I think it might. It seemed to me, like we were really only successful running the ball out of 3-4 WR sets last year. Wen we lined up in a pro set on a 3rd and 1 or 2 and tried to run (which was rare), we got stuffed. Maybe it's just my selective memory kicking in, but I saw our run game as somewhat gimmicky. Catch the defense playing the pass, then run. Marrone may do it the same way. I hope he does, because I don't a lot of faith in the OL right now. Glenn should be good/ above average. LG is scary. Wood is great when healthy. Urbik is solid yet unspectacular. Pears and Hairston at RT are average IMO. I see 2 average OL, 1 great OL (that always gets hurt), Glenn, who we all hope is great, but the verdict is still out and LG which is bad/below average. Seems like it pans out to be an average OL, especially when someone gets hurt. I hate to say it, but its going to happen. It always does. Lets just hope its not glenn or wood and they don't miss extended time. To think that our starting 5 will be the starting 5 all year is a pipe dream to me. I like having Hairston/pears as the back up tackle, but I'm worried about any interior lineman going down. It could be disastrous. Sorry for being negative, but I can't help but think that 1 or 2 OL starters are going to get hurt. At that point, our OL will most likely be a detriment. I know anyone can get hurt. If Gilmore goes down, our CBs will be a detriment. But watching this team over the last 15 years, our OLmen always get hurt. Hopefully Marrone can mask the deficiencies as well as chan did (that's the one thing I think he did well).
DanInUticaTampa Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 So Levitre is the only starter not returning next year. And if I was a betting man, I'd put money on Sanders or Marrone's boy Chibane winning the LG spot. Do people really think the line will suffer THAT much by comparison?? With Marrone being a good Oline coach, and being very hands on with this line, I am not too worried. I think he will get the best out of what he has. I cant imagine the line being that much worse compared to last year with him being so hands on. Though it is hard to imagine them not signing/drafting a new starting guard next season
Nanker Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Sweet farging criminies. Some people worry about every and any thing. They won't be happy with a win this year either. They won't settle for less than a DOMINATING win to satisfy their wounded egos.
eme123 Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Im not sure if this was noted but our current Guards have been going against solid competition in camp. ex. Dareus, Kyle Williams, Carrington
K-9 Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Sweet farging criminies. Some people worry about every and any thing. They won't be happy with a win this year either. They won't settle for less than a DOMINATING win to satisfy their wounded egos. Just wait until a DT blows up our LG and Chris Johnson breaks an 80 yarder over the left side of his line. Never mind that both occurred when Levitre was here, now it will be because he's not here but in Tenny. GO BILLS!!!
NewEra Posted August 6, 2013 Posted August 6, 2013 Sweet farging criminies. Some people worry about every and any thing. They won't be happy with a win this year either. They won't settle for less than a DOMINATING win to satisfy their wounded egos. I do a lot of thinking about this team (like many here). When I discuss the upcoming season with friends, one thing that always pops up is "a lot comes down to the OL. Ej and Cjs performance is predicated on solid OL play. How bad will the Lg play? Will the other OLmen have to help him out so much that it hurts their overall play? Can the interior OL stay healthy for once? Our interior depth is questionable at best." Big questions regarding a big key to our season IMO. It makes me worry. That's all. Ill be very happy with every win this year and aren't expecting to be dominating. No ego. I'm just a little worried that they may underperform compared to years past. That's all. I know many fans that feel the same.
Recommended Posts