PromoTheRobot Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 And from a team building exercise, the problem is exacerbated when we fail to retain said top picks who do pan out instead of flaming out (which has happened entirely too often with the Bills). Well what was the answer with Levitre? $9M a year? Maybe.
billsfan89 Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I think that its clear that this team (Which has cap space to sign a mid level guy) needs to start looking at external guard options. Brandon Moore is still out there and I think there are a few other options that have starting experience. The team can't have holes on the offensive line with a rookie QB. Seems like the longer camp goes on the clearer it becomes that we don't have the starting LG on the roster.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 In the last press conference, Marrone called out Doug Legursky and Colin Brown for pretty much getting torched and not showing what he had hoped would come from that battle. I know that inside guard is not as important as the tackle spot but hearing this from coach doesn't exactly make you feel confident about a new QB coming in into that situation. Looking back when we finish this season I wonder how detrimental the Levitre loss will end up being to the development of the new offense as well as the new QB whoever it ends up being. This also could force an easier decision from Marrone on the QB to go in the direction of the more mobile QB Manuel since he'll be rolling away from the pressure or running for his life possibly. Was he lighting a fire or was he saying man we look like poop nuggets at that position? They made a huge mistake in letting Levitre go, when are they going to learn you don't let the best player at his position go. I recall when Russ took over and Marrone came in where there was a general thought of Guards aren't important in this offense. This total BS, I don't care what the NFL has become or what offense you run the O-line is critical for success, always has been always will be. I hope we don't revert back to the days of Jerrry O, Hangman and mike Williams.
papazoid Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Well what was the answer with Levitre? $9M a year? Maybe. he signed for an average $7.8 mil/year 3/12/2013: Signed a six-year, $46.8 million contract. The deal included a $10.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $2.5 million, 2014-2017: $6.5 million, 2018: $5.8 million, 2019: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5310/andy-levitre i'm in the camp they should have kept Levitre. he will be sorely missed. so now we over $20 mil in cap space and nothing worth while to spend it on.
thebandit27 Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 he signed for an average $7.8 mil/year 3/12/2013: Signed a six-year, $46.8 million contract. The deal included a $10.5 million signing bonus. 2013: $2.5 million, 2014-2017: $6.5 million, 2018: $5.8 million, 2019: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5310/andy-levitre i'm in the camp they should have kept Levitre. he will be sorely missed. so now we over $20 mil in cap space and nothing worth while to spend it on. So based on your last paragraph, you wouldn't find it worth while to spend money on extending any of the following guys: Wood Spiller Freddie Chandler Byrd
PromoTheRobot Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 They made a huge mistake in letting Levitre go, when are they going to learn you don't let the best player at his position go. I recall when Russ took over and Marrone came in where there was a general thought of Guards aren't important in this offense. This total BS, I don't care what the NFL has become or what offense you run the O-line is critical for success, always has been always will be. I hope we don't revert back to the days of Jerrry O, Hangman and mike Williams. So give Levitre $8M/yr and try to sign Byrd for about the same. Then extend Wood and Spiller with what? PTR
Wayne Cubed Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 They made a huge mistake in letting Levitre go, when are they going to learn you don't let the best player at his position go. So give Levitre $8M/yr and try to sign Byrd for about the same. Then extend Wood and Spiller with what? PTR Well his first sentence says it all. Purely an opinion, not to mention you can't resign all your "best" players. It's just not possible in the NFL.
BillsVet Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 The debate about whether or not to retain Levitre boils down to having a suitable replacement on the roster when the player is about to leave. The Bills didn't and now they're signing lower tier UFA's (Caldwell and Legursky) with types like Colin Brown (who's started 2 NFL games). But this is a common denominator of Bills team-building from 2001 to the present. Quite often a player is let go and no one's been groomed to take their spot, unless you count the unproven options the team drafts that year or a player with limited playing experience.
papazoid Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 So based on your last paragraph, you wouldn't find it worth while to spend money on extending any of the following guys: Wood Spiller - Freddie - Chandler Byrd #1- who's to say any of them will want to sign with buffalo ? #2- spiller thru 2015 and freddy thru 2014 are signed long term already (see below) #3- in order I value Levitre, Wood then Byrd Levitre is an absolute proven stud who is durable. was our BEST OL last year. should have signed him sooner for $7 mil/yr. would rather have him over wood and bryd. Wood is an above average center who is injury prone, but worth keeping long term at $6 mil/yr Byrd is a top ten safety worth at best $8 mil/yr. the main reason he got tagged instead of Levitre is that the safety tag value is significantly lower than OL and the Bills had to protect only one. Spiller is a game breaker. his prospects took a hit with Levitre out. he is already signed long term thru 2015: 8/6/2010: Signed a six-year, $39.3 million contract. The deal contains $20.8 million guaranteed. Another $12.5 million is available through incentives, roughly $12 million of which are available in the final year. Spiller is eligible for an annual $250,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2,623,334, 2014: $1,748,750, 2015: $2,196,663, 2016: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5566/cj-spiller Freddy 5/7/2012: Signed a three-year, $10.805 million contract thru 2014. The deal included a $3 million signing bonus. Another $2.3 million is available through incentives based on stats, Pro Bowls, and playoff berths. Jackson is eligible for an annual $100,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2.15 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus due in March + $150,000 in per-game roster bonuses), 2014: $2.45 million (+ $93,750 in per-game roster bonuses), 2015: Free Agent http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4506/fred-jackson Chandler is a lousy blocker and has average hands. he benefited from Fitz inability to throw deep. wouldn't miss him except we have chit behind him. currently TE is weakest position on team.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 The debate about whether or not to retain Levitre boils down to having a suitable replacement on the roster when the player is about to leave. The Bills didn't and now they're signing lower tier UFA's (Caldwell and Legursky) with types like Colin Brown (who's started 2 NFL games). But this is a common denominator of Bills team-building from 2001 to the present. Quite often a player is let go and no one's been groomed to take their spot, unless you count the unproven options the team drafts that year or a player with limited playing experience. That's right, there is a replacement cost that never seems to be figured in. If the Bills LG situation gets as bad as it sounds like it might.....the Bills may find themselves drafting an offensive guard in round 1 next year. We have seen this time and again. And very often that high pick still proves to be less than the player he replaced. McKelvin replacing Clements. McCargo replacing Pat Williams. Poz replacing Fletcher. We have seen it over and over. Is Levitre and $8M/year player? No, but will losing him do more than $8M/yr damage? It very well could. What is the economic value of having your OLine undone by losing one player? Or having your QB injured? Or having to waste money on lesser free agent replacements? Or to use another high pick to replace that player? The Bills were totally unprepared to lose Levitre.
papazoid Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) That's right, there is a replacement cost that never seems to be figured in. If the Bills LG situation gets as bad as it sounds like it might.....the Bills may find themselves drafting an offensive guard in round 1 next year. We have seen this time and again. And very often that high pick still proves to be less than the player he replaced. McKelvin replacing Clements. McCargo replacing Pat Williams. Poz replacing Fletcher. We have seen it over and over. Is Levitre and $8M/year player? No, but will losing him do more than $8M/yr damage? It very well could. What is the economic value of having your OLine undone by losing one player? Or having your QB injured? Or having to waste money on lesser free agent replacements? Or to use another high pick to replace that player? The Bills were totally unprepared to lose Levitre. speaking of McKelvin (who can't play a lick of corner), his $4.25 mil/yr salary would have been better used towards Levitre. Edited August 3, 2013 by papazoid
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) speaking of McKelvin (who can't play a lick of corner), his $4.25 mil/yr salary would have been better used towards Levitre. Abso-frickin-lutely!!!! :worthy: So give Levitre $8M/yr and try to sign Byrd for about the same. Then extend Wood and Spiller with what? PTR Marios Money and RBs can be found anywhere so if Spiller goes then not the biggest deal. Edited August 3, 2013 by Buffalo Barbarian
BillsVet Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 #1- who's to say any of them will want to sign with buffalo ? Here is the latest and greatest straw man argument whenever the topic of re-signing players comes up. Well, has anyone ever attempted to answer why players don't want to play in Buffalo? Is it because they're not offered market value for their services? Is it because they feel there isn't a good enough chance to win? What is it? Basically, anytime someone doesn't re-sign with the Bills we can use the "he didn't want to be here argument" as a means of covering for the franchise. Awfully convenient for those who can't bring themselves to blame the team. And anyway, I don't recall the team making an offer to Levitre, or what the offer to Byrd was, or whether they've engaged Wood in negotiations yet.
Canks Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Doesn't today's injury to Kolb further show the importance of a quality left guard. No way does Levitre allow Kolb to get injured if he's around.
wonderbread Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 No. He was a valuable player but no. His cost was to high.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Doesn't today's injury to Kolb further show the importance of a quality left guard. No way does Levitre allow Kolb to get injured if he's around. Levitre would have punched the crap out of that mat. PTR
shoretalk Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 No, today's injury to Kolb is a reminder not to have wet rubber pads on the ground where players can slip and fall on them. We have been around and around on this board about Levitre. The dollar amount that Tennesee was willing to pay him was far beyond his worth (And, I am a Levitre fan.). Also, it is possible that the Bills' front office was fully aware of his need for off season surgery that would lead to a slow recovery. In an interview with the Titan's PR people that was recorded this week Levitre admits that he is still behind and not yet up to full speed. He says that he will need training camp to get where he needs to be. In addition, he sounds like he is having some difficulty adjusting to a new scheme, which he would have had to do here as well. Wishing him well but more concerned with the front office's delay on getting a contract to our center ... http://www.titansonline.com/media-center/videos/Andy-Levitre-on-Developing-Chemistry-Along-O-Line/5899e57d-8c30-45b5-b368-0ddb6385769f
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