Guard position battle not going so hot

[Fan in Chicago]

It's down to Brown and Legursky. Marrone said they are going to battle it out for the spot.

 

And we have come full circle. This is the same pair that Marrone was unhappy about and caused this thread. So it ends with Marrone exploring options and concluding this is the best battle possible at this time. Kinda depressing.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Fan in Chicago

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

 

 

And we have come full circle. This is the same pair that Marrone was unhappy about and caused this thread. So it ends with Marrone exploring options and concluding this is the best battle possible at this time. Kinda depressing.

Keep your depression to yourself.

[1B4IDie]

I Guarantee the Bills go dumpster diving for Guard in the 52 man cut down since Lurgusky and Brown should be in the dumpster right now.

Hopefully they can find some reinforcements prior to the 52 man cut down though.

[Wayne Cubed]

Damn. Damn. Damn. Levitre is looking great tonight. He's sprung two long Td runs and pulled to open a hole for Green on 4th down. I miss Andy.

 

Not that I want to take anything away from him, but I wouldn't exactely say it was his specific play that sprung the long runs. On the first play, he cut block his guy, meanwhile Roos, took his defender to the other side of the field, which was a great block. I'd say Roos sprung the long run. As for the Green TD, Warmick actually pulled and opened the hole.

 

He looked good, but lets not start giving him credit for everythin that goes well for the Titans. And the sack on Locker, came from the left side...

[papazoid]

 

 

Not that I want to take anything away from him, but I wouldn't exactely say it was his specific play that sprung the long runs. On the first play, he cut block his guy, meanwhile Roos, took his defender to the other side of the field, which was a great block. I'd say Roos sprung the long run. As for the Green TD, Warmick actually pulled and opened the hole.

 

He looked good, but lets not start giving him credit for everythin that goes well for the Titans. And the sack on Locker, came from the left side...

 

Chris Johnson cut back exactly against the great block Levitre threw. the sack on Locker was NOT levitre, he had his man under control. the 4th down conversion ran directly behind a pulling Levitre. Warmack gave up a sack, but was the lead blocker on the long TD that went left.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos

Edited August 9, 2013 by papazoid

[BADOLBILZ]

While I agree OL play is extremely important, I also am not as worried as some over Levitre's departure. Glenn should be better in his 2nd year. Wood is a top notch C. Urbik is above-average at RG. The Pears/Hairston combo at RT is passable. Marrone is an OL coach and will not jeopardize his offense by putting somebody in at LG who can't meet his minimum standards. The nice thing about camp is he's getting a look at several candidates, learning what they can and can't do. They're also being tested by some pretty ridiculous players on the D line.

 

My position is not a popular one among the crowd who bemoans how the Bills have "ignored" the O line, but I think there's some logic behind it.

 

For me, it can be summed up like this: right now, the Bills have 3 starters on their line that have been cut by other organizations. Pears was bad last year, Hairston was a marginal prospect and Urbik is probably average on his best day, not above-average.

 

As for the more gifted lineman, Wood has a rather lengthy injury history and apparently Cordy Glenn isn't having a very good camp as a pass blocker.

 

Perhaps most concerning is that ALL of these guys have had injury problems while in Buffalo, yet Marrone is talking about just carrying 7? They have needed 10 in each of the last 3 years, I understand Marrone is trying to get these guys in better shape?.... but I believe one of the reasons they have needed so many players is that lesser athletes tend to get hurt at this level and the Bills have a history of dumpster diving for OL. They have a money-ball type approach to the OL.....get enough barely passable players, scheme to their strengths and rotate them out when they inevitably get hurt by their superior opponent on the defensive side of the ball.

 

It may work out, but there is plenty of reason to be concerned. And it seems inevitable that the OL will need to be addressed early in the draft next year.....which is ridiculous considering they had three young first and second round picks on the roster at the end of last season. They should have been set for years.

[Wayne Cubed]

Chris Johnson cut back exactly against the great block Levitre threw. the sack on Locker was NOT levitre, he had his man under control. the 4th down conversion ran directly behind a pulling Levitre. Warmack gave up a sack, but was the lead blocker on the long TD that went left.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos

 

The great cut block? It was just a cut block, like I said, watch Roos on the play. And the sack on Locker, I know wasn't on Levitre, it was sarcasm on giving Levitre credit for everything good. The left side of the line as a whole, did a good job on that play.

 

EDIT: His comment was that Levitre "sprung" the play. I'd argue that it wasn't him specifically.

 

EDIt #2: And it's preseason, game 1.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Wayne Cubed

[papazoid]

 

 

The great cut block? It was just a cut block, like I said, watch Roos on the play. And the sack on Locker, I know, wasn't on Levitre, thats my point about giving Levitre credit for everything good. The left side of the line as a whole, did a good job.

 

EDIT: His comment was that Levitre "sprung" the play. I'd argue that it wasn't him specifically.

 

and here is a point I would like to make. Tennessee's top 2 acquisitions were GUARDS, levitre in free agency and warmack in the draft. I think guards are every bit as important as any other position on offense except QB. I say Tennessee improves more than buffalo this coming season. we had a stud in levitre and should have kept him. he is more valuable than byrd and mckelvin put together, who the bills decided to pay instead.

[bowery4]

And we have come full circle. This is the same pair that Marrone was unhappy about and caused this thread. So it ends with Marrone exploring options and concluding this is the best battle possible at this time. Kinda depressing.

Or the motivational ploys are working, we don't know how the coaches look at this (and judging from the fact they haven't really brought in anyone great to compete, I honestly wonder why they would let Andy leave if they think it is a position that isn't kind of plug and fill). Brown impressed me in the past, the guy is a road grater that needed to improve his pass pro. I hope we run a lot especially if EJ starts but kind of no matter who starts.

Edited August 9, 2013 by bowery4

[1B4IDie]

 

 

The great cut block? It was just a cut block, like I said, watch Roos on the play. And the sack on Locker, I know wasn't on Levitre, it was sarcasm on giving Levitre credit for everything good. The left side of the line as a whole, did a good job on that play.

 

EDIT: His comment was that Levitre "sprung" the play. I'd argue that it wasn't him specifically.

 

EDIt #2: And it's preseason, game 1.

You forgot:

Edit #3 Levitre played extremely well. No need to hyper critique because he is no longer on the Bills roster.

[thebandit27]

Chris Johnson cut back exactly against the great block Levitre threw. the sack on Locker was NOT levitre, he had his man under control. the 4th down conversion ran directly behind a pulling Levitre. Warmack gave up a sack, but was the lead blocker on the long TD that went left.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos

 

It's practically the EXACT same play that they've been running for years, with or without Levitre. Have a look at this cut-up from last year's game against Buffalo:

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Playbook-Chris-Johnson-runs-past-the-Bills.html

 

The only difference is that they have a TE smashing down the line to seal off a backside LB as opposed to a FB leading into the hole, which makes sense given that they're playing against a 3-4 alignment as opposed to a 4-3. It's worth noting, since we're breaking down the run, that it's the TE's block that seals the LB's pursuit and springs Johnson, along with his cut around the FS that turns it into a long run. Credit goes to the whole offense, not just the LG.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Not sure i get the debate over levitre's play. It's undisputed that he is an awesome guard.

[Wayne Cubed]

It's practically the EXACT same play that they've been running for years, with or without Levitre. Have a look at this cut-up from last year's game against Buffalo:

 

http://www.nationalf...-the-Bills.html

 

The only difference is that they have a TE smashing down the line to seal off a backside LB as opposed to a FB leading into the hole, which makes sense given that they're playing against a 3-4 alignment as opposed to a 4-3. It's worth noting, since we're breaking down the run, that it's the TE's block that seals the LB's pursuit and springs Johnson, along with his cut around the FS that turns it into a long run. Credit goes to the whole offense, not just the LG.

 

I noticed the TE as well, but because it's such a sore subject and Levitre is a former Bill, some fans are quick to say "I told you so."

[thebandit27]

For me, it can be summed up like this: right now, the Bills have 3 starters on their line that have been cut by other organizations. Pears was bad last year, Hairston was a marginal prospect and Urbik is probably average on his best day, not above-average.

 

Pears had a training camp injury last year and was never healthy. When he was healthy in 2011, he was solid at RT. I also believe you're under-rating Urbik, who's also been solid. Just one example: if you can find video of Fred Jackson's long screen pass TD from 2010's home game vs. Pittsburgh, spot-shadow Urbik on that play. Ditto for Spiller's long screen pass TD vs. the Jets in week 17 of last season. Urbik can play.

 

As for the more gifted lineman, Wood has a rather lengthy injury history and apparently Cordy Glenn isn't having a very good camp as a pass blocker.

 

I agree that Wood needs to start 16 games for this team to have a very good OL. Wood's injuries, however, haven't been ticky-tack stuff; he's just had bad luck. I find it encouraging that--despite his injuries--he has started 47 of 64 regular season games since being drafted. As to Glenn, I won't be concerned until he starts struggling during the season. I was encouraged by his play last season as well.

 

Perhaps most concerning is that ALL of these guys have had injury problems while in Buffalo, yet Marrone is talking about just carrying 7? They have needed 10 in each of the last 3 years, I understand Marrone is trying to get these guys in better shape?.... but I believe one of the reasons they have needed so many players is that lesser athletes tend to get hurt at this level and the Bills have a history of dumpster diving for OL. They have a money-ball type approach to the OL.....get enough barely passable players, scheme to their strengths and rotate them out when they inevitably get hurt by their superior opponent on the defensive side of the ball.

 

It may work out, but there is plenty of reason to be concerned. And it seems inevitable that the OL will need to be addressed early in the draft next year.....which is ridiculous considering they had three young first and second round picks on the roster at the end of last season. They should have been set for years.

 

 

That quote about carrying 7 was misinterpreted by whichever reporter posted it...Marrone was talking about dressing 7 OL on game day, not necessarily carrying 7 on the roster. Also, I don't really think it's fair to say in one sentence that the team "dumpster dives" at OL, and then right afterward talk about the team having 3 high draft picks starting last year. Remember that Urbik was a 3rd round pick as well; he was released by Pittsburgh because he couldn't stay healthy. So if you want to pick nits, technically the team still has 3 high draft picks starting.

 

Not sure i get the debate over levitre's play. It's undisputed that he is an awesome guard.

 

IMO he's a top 10 guard that wanted top 5 money. I'm not a huge fan of paying guards $8M/season, which is why I understood when he signed elsewhere.

[Wayne Cubed]

and here is a point I would like to make. Tennessee's top 2 acquisitions were GUARDS, levitre in free agency and warmack in the draft. I think guards are every bit as important as any other position on offense except QB. I say Tennessee improves more than buffalo this coming season. we had a stud in levitre and should have kept him. he is more valuable than byrd and mckelvin put together, who the bills decided to pay instead.

 

All you can do is wait and see.

[Bill from NYC]

I agree that Wood needs to start 16 games for this team to have a very good OL. Wood's injuries, however, haven't been ticky-tack stuff; he's just had bad luck. I find it encouraging that--despite his injuries--he has started 47 of 64 regular season games since being drafted.

 

Yes, and to his credit, Wood appeared to be playing injured much of the time. Not all of his games were great, and I think that the injuries mattered. Levitre was far more consistent than any Bills blocker in many, many years.

And I get your point in terms of your assertion that you didn't want to spend top 5 guard money on Levitre. But this begs the question, where is this money going? From where I sit, it looks like they are piling up dead cap space for next season (isn't that when they have to spend more cap dollars), and unsuccessfully trying to throw big money at a safety. This mind you with a rookie quarterback.

If this makes sense to you, that's fine. I try, but it looks bizarre from where I sit.

[thebandit27]

Yes, and to his credit, Wood appeared to be playing injured much of the time. Not all of his games were great, and I think that the injuries mattered. Levitre was far more consistent than any Bills blocker in many, many years.

And I get your point in terms of your assertion that you didn't want to spend top 5 guard money on Levitre. But this begs the question, where is this money going? From where I sit, it looks like they are piling up dead cap space for next season (isn't that when they have to spend more cap dollars), and unsuccessfully trying to throw big money at a safety. This mind you with a rookie quarterback.

If this makes sense to you, that's fine. I try, but it looks bizarre from where I sit.

 

I can understand that perspective Bill...admittedly, I can only assume where the money will go, which is to extend guys like Wood, Spiller, Chandler, Carrington, & possibly Byrd, etc., as well as to bring in an impact player or two in free agency next year. That would make sense to me...failing that, I'm not sure I'd understand it either. Truth is, with a new front office & coaching staff, it's impossible to know/predict exactly what they're thinking outside of the seemingly standard approach of "see what we have right now before we commit major dollars to anyone" that happens with a new regime.

[papazoid]

 

 

I can understand that perspective Bill...admittedly, I can only assume where the money will go, which is to extend guys like Wood, Spiller, Chandler, Carrington, & possibly Byrd, etc., as well as to bring in an impact player or two in free agency next year. That would make sense to me...failing that, I'm not sure I'd understand it either. Truth is, with a new front office & coaching staff, it's impossible to know/predict exactly what they're thinking outside of the seemingly standard approach of "see what we have right now before we commit major dollars to anyone" that happens with a new regime.

 

CJ is signed thru 2015.

 

8/6/2010: Signed a six-year, $39.3 million contract. The deal contains $20.8 million guaranteed. Another $12.5 million is available through incentives, roughly $12 million of which are available in the final year. Spiller is eligible for an annual $250,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2,623,334, 2014: $1,748,750, 2015: $2,196,663, 2016: Free Agent

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5566/cj-spiller

[thebandit27]

CJ is signed thru 2015.

 

8/6/2010: Signed a six-year, $39.3 million contract. The deal contains $20.8 million guaranteed. Another $12.5 million is available through incentives, roughly $12 million of which are available in the final year. Spiller is eligible for an annual $250,000 workout bonus throughout the contract's life. 2013: $2,623,334, 2014: $1,748,750, 2015: $2,196,663, 2016: Free Agent

 

http://www.rotoworld...5566/cj-spiller

 

Indeed...my point is simply that he's an elite talent (perhaps the only one on the team), and if he has another monster year--as I think may expect him to--it would make sense to extend him before he's within a year of hitting the open market.

[GG]

Indeed...my point is simply that he's an elite talent (perhaps the only one on the team), and if he has another monster year--as I think may expect him to--it would make sense to extend him before he's within a year of hitting the open market.

 

You are 100% correct. It's what all forward-thinking and aggressive organizations do.