SJ is a slot-man now

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Since you are so "fact based" and logical please provide your definition of "a #1 WR".

 

This definition is the the core issue under debate here.

 

I think you are saying a #1 is a dominant player that would start on any team, while other say a #1 is a player that would be an NFL starter on A team (one of the best 32)

 

Since there is no formal definition I am aware of, this whole arguement irrespective of basis is to result in an opinion not a fact.

 

Still no enlightenment on this eh? That what I thought.

 

Also Andre was almost always slot when 3 WRs were out. He's like the grand daddy of slot WRs. His claim to fame is as one of the best slot WRs of all time.

 

Other #1 WRs commonly found in the slot.... Depending on the play/offense.., Welker, Steve Smith, Percy Harvin to name a quick few.

[mrags]

 

 

Still no enlightenment on this eh? That what I thought.

 

Also Andre was almost always slot when 3 WRs were out. He's like the grand daddy of slot WRs. His claim to fame is as one of the best slot WRs of all time.

 

Other #1 WRs commonly found in the slot.... Depending on the play/offense.., Welker, Steve Smith, Percy Harvin to name a quick few.

no way fanhood. He clearly stated that Stebie is not a #1. That #1 WRs are too good for the slot. They are all tall, fast, and physical. He's provided proof by his opinion that its fact. There's no more argument here. We should all concede to his awesomeness and just acknowledge that he is the person to listen to when were talking about WRs in the NFL.

[NewEra]

no way fanhood. He clearly stated that Stebie is not a #1. That #1 WRs are too good for the slot. They are all tall, fast, and physical. He's provided proof by his opinion that its fact. There's no more argument here. We should all concede to his awesomeness and just acknowledge that he is the person to listen to when were talking about WRs in the NFL.

 

Agreed

Edited August 5, 2013 by NewEra

[Jauronimo]

Good answer... maybe not. Best answer would be to say him in the slot would be like Welker when he was on the Pats.

 

I don't have the article but I read somewhere that their skill sets (Woods, Johnson) are pretty much interchangeable(other than speed) so they will be learning both positions. SJ is still the #1 receiver in my book. Doesn't matter where they put him, the defense will be watching for him.

It will be interesting to see how teams play us assuming SJ is healthy. Does SJ draw the best cover man to the slot, or will defenses still protect the deep threat and sideline. I'm hoping SJ in the slot means our young burners on the outside will see some more interesting match ups.

[mrags]

 

It will be interesting to see how teams play us assuming SJ is healthy. Does SJ draw the best cover man to the slot, or will defenses still protect the deep threat and sideline. I'm hoping SJ in the slot means our young burners on the outside will see some more interesting match ups.

yup. And when he plays the slot if he takes the opposing teams #1 DB, it's not an argument anymore. He's a #1. But then again, he always has taken the coverage of the oppositions #1 defensive option.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

no way fanhood. He clearly stated that Stebie is not a #1. That #1 WRs are too good for the slot. They are all tall, fast, and physical. He's provided proof by his opinion that its fact. There's no more argument here. We should all concede to his awesomeness and just acknowledge that he is the person to listen to when were talking about WRs in the NFL.

 

Thanks rags... but can you define a #1? Aside from pee-pee?

 

Seriously I read there is some standard definition.

 

The one about Reed not playing slot until late in his career was laugh out loud funny.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

It will be interesting to see how teams play us assuming SJ is healthy. Does SJ draw the best cover man to the slot, or will defenses still protect the deep threat and sideline. I'm hoping SJ in the slot means our young burners on the outside will see some more interesting match ups.

 

EJs deep ball and deep threats on both outsides is going to cause everyone to reinvent the defensive game plan for buf.

 

Will almost have to force a nickel w/2 deep safeties.

 

Then CJ, FJ, Chandler and SJ can just hammer the underneath stuff. One of these guys will be covered with a linebacker!!

[mrags]

 

 

Thanks rags... but can you define a #1? Aside from pee-pee?

 

Seriously I read there is some standard definition.

 

The one about Reed not playing slot until late in his career was laugh out loud funny.

well, it just my opinion, but I'm gonna say that a number one is the teams number one receiving option. At the same time, establishes that the opposing defense constantly matches up their best defensive back with that receiver. Stevie falls into that category IMO. But again, that's only my opinion.

 

That's different from an ELITE WR. IMO there are only a few ELITE WRs in this league. Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald (which is starting to slow down) Brandon Marshall. A few others. These are WRs that are ALWAYS OPEN, no matter who's covering them and where on the field.

 

Again, these are just my opinions.

[Cold Front]

umm no, did you read what I wrote? maybe read it again and youll see why. Its not merely about passes caught. It could be his system and hOF QB maybe. But go ahead and cling to one stat.

 

 

 

very good, take one tiny part of what I wrote, mis-characterize it and pretend your right and intelligent.

 

 

 

not trying to be funny, its hardly funny trying to argue with three or four guys who because they agree with eachother think they are right. Many agree with me and some have ripped you in this very thread, they just dont keep wasting time with people who cant stand to hear counter arguments to their beliefs. You probably backed trent edwards for his whole career here too talking about his concussion and bad O line. If you dont agree fine but the facts are solid and if you want to argue a 1 IS A GUY WHO CATCHES THE MOST BALLS FOR THAT TEAM THAT YEAR then I guess youll be right but many people dont see it that way. You refuse to accept the common definition of a 1,you and the other 3 here ripping me. It doesnt ever make you right.

 

 

 

 

well said, I actually wrote much more in attempting to prove it ith stats and exmples but those are lost on people who cant read more than a line or two and get so angry they start yelling troll and idiot at the poster. You at least get the point. I dont really go for "credibilty" on a web board. The stats I used are all credible, I just presented the truths that no one can argue against.

 

 

thanks for actually looking and having a respectful intelligent comment. My feeling is percentage is worth more than overall drops since some WRs get more passes thrown at them than others. I did say SJ was bad for 3 years and percentage wise, he was. He may have "improved" in 2011 as you say but being among the top 4 last year means its still currently an issue and you have to take into account that he doesnt make big catches when they count. He has some nice one-handed grabs sometimes in games that are blow outs but he has more big time drops.

 

I thought when making my point most responses would be like yours, I was wrong, the 3-4 guys are so blatantly biased and selective in what they read and respond to, its not worth even sharing anything unpopular on this board, no matter how intelligent or what stats back up your point. I guess here you just have to say things like, "sj is the best route runner" "SJ owns Revis!!!" etc. "SJ is way better than victor cruz or Vincent Jackson or Desean Jackson or ....etc etc. Ya the 7th rounder who just got relegated to the slot is WAAAAYYY better than all the other WR except megatron. Here are the last few slot guys who played for Blo

 

D Nelson (slow and released)

R parrish (small but fast and released)

J Reed (slow and released)

 

Did Moulds ever play slot? Did Evans? Andre Reed played a bit but mostly at the end of his career. So why is SJ the slot guy now if hes so good?

 

You should consider changing your name to confounder since you have not demonstrated the ability to enlighten.

 

Stevie is the #1 reciever on this team - barring injury or trade until proven otherwise.

 

In coach Hacketts offense the recievers are asked to know all of the WR positions in order to Attack the defense and exploit mismatches. You would have an argument if on Sept. 8th the offense lined up in a pro set and Stevie was on the bench (uninjured). But since it's TRAINING CAMP... a little practice, whether it's at x, y,or z is to be expected.

 

Your link is worthless- stevie dropped the ball less than some elite wr's, and all of them had better QB's than stevie.

 

stevie had a faster 40 time 4.59 than Jerry Rice 4.71 guess he wasn't a #1 wr.

 

 

And to answer your question yes Reed, Moulds, lined up in the slot during their careers. FWIW in the past the cheatriots have lined up in a pro set with welker on the outside.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

well, it just my opinion, but I'm gonna say that a number one is the teams number one receiving option. At the same time, establishes that the opposing defense constantly matches up their best defensive back with that receiver. Stevie falls into that category IMO. But again, that's only my opinion.

 

That's different from an ELITE WR. IMO there are only a few ELITE WRs in this league. Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald (which is starting to slow down) Brandon Marshall. A few others. These are WRs that are ALWAYS OPEN, no matter who's covering them and where on the field.

 

Again, these are just my opinions.

 

My felling of what a number 1 is falls pretty close to you, not exact, but we'd end up in the same place. One of the best 32 WRs in the game. Not one of the best 5.

[mrags]

 

 

My felling of what a number 1 is falls pretty close to you, not exact, but we'd end up in the same place. One of the best 32 WRs in the game. Not one of the best 5.

id agree with that as well.

[mitchmurraydowntown]

not you. Forgot the 2 threads were merged.

 

oh crap!!!

 

Does that make me Miss July?

 

OK cool.

[enlightener]

You should consider changing your name to confounder since you have not demonstrated the ability to enlighten.

 

Stevie is the #1 reciever on this team - barring injury or trade until proven otherwise.

 

In coach Hacketts offense the recievers are asked to know all of the WR positions in order to Attack the defense and exploit mismatches. You would have an argument if on Sept. 8th the offense lined up in a pro set and Stevie was on the bench (uninjured). But since it's TRAINING CAMP... a little practice, whether it's at x, y,or z is to be expected.

 

Your link is worthless- stevie dropped the ball less than some elite wr's, and all of them had better QB's than stevie.

 

stevie had a faster 40 time 4.59 than Jerry Rice 4.71 guess he wasn't a #1 wr.

 

 

And to answer your question yes Reed, Moulds, lined up in the slot during their careers. FWIW in the past the cheatriots have lined up in a pro set with welker on the outside.

 

wrong wrong and wrong. Do you understand the difference between total drops and drop percentage? Also they stats are based on "catchable balls" so the QB makes no difference if the ball was an easy pass to grab, he didnt grab as high of percentage as almost all starting number 1 WR's on 32 teams for 2 years 2010 and 2012... You cant argue your way out of that. Moulds did not line up in the slot save for a few gadget plays like all WR might do once in a while. He was never a slot WR. I maybe wrong about Reeds Percentage I didnt look it up, nor know if its possible to look it up but no one will argue he didnt play outside as well and had no problem doing so because he was a complete receiver, a true #1. And Jerry being slower in a single 40 measurement is irrelevant. He had a 10+ year history of getting open deep and catching a large amount of deep TDs. He was in the 18 to 20 YPC in his first 5 years. He didnt get close to SJ's YPC until his 12th year! How many deep TDs has SJ caught in the last 3 years as our unquestioned top WR? One, maybe 2?

 

Basically this argument has devolved into you 5 guys being "right" because you wont accept my definition of a #1. Trying to say theres only "elite" WRs or "number 1 on said team" Some people believe, understand and dont pretend to ignore, what other people mean when they call some one a number 1 type WR.

 

Proof- When Evans was here many people including media said they didnt think he could be a number 1. what did they mean??? He couldnt catch the most balls on his team?? People began posting demanding him to be traded even though for many years he was our number one in receptions. Calling him a ONE TRICK PONY (so not a complete WR) So why would that argument be made that he wasnt a "number 1 WR"? Wasnt he our #1? He caught the most balls. So all those posts should never have existed because according to your definition, he was a number 1. So was Lees inability to "go over the middle" the QB's fault or was he just not good at it? Either way it was said by many people in many articles that Lee wasnt a true number 1. But he was, wasnt he? He caught the most balls all those seasons right?

 

So go on with your line of thinking. I predict Sj wont be on the team in 2 years and if Rogers is any good he wont see the field in Pro sets by mid season. (healthy or not)

[thebandit27]

wrong wrong and wrong. Do you understand the difference between total drops and drop percentage? Also they stats are based on "catchable balls" so the QB makes no difference if the ball was an easy pass to grab, he didnt grab as high of percentage as almost all starting number 1 WR's on 32 teams for 2 years 2010 and 2012... You cant argue your way out of that. Moulds did not line up in the slot save for a few gadget plays like all WR might do once in a while. He was never a slot WR. I maybe wrong about Reeds Percentage I didnt look it up, nor know if its possible to look it up but no one will argue he didnt play outside as well and had no problem doing so because he was a complete receiver, a true #1. And Jerry being slower in a single 40 measurement is irrelevant. He had a 10+ year history of getting open deep and catching a large amount of deep TDs. He was in the 18 to 20 YPC in his first 5 years. He didnt get close to SJ's YPC until his 12th year! How many deep TDs has SJ caught in the last 3 years as our unquestioned top WR? One, maybe 2?

 

Basically this argument has devolved into you 5 guys being "right" because you wont accept my definition of a #1. Trying to say theres only "elite" WRs or "number 1 on said team" Some people believe, understand and dont pretend to ignore, what other people mean when they call some one a number 1 type WR.

 

Proof- When Evans was here many people including media said they didnt think he could be a number 1. what did they mean??? He couldnt catch the most balls on his team?? People began posting demanding him to be traded even though for many years he was our number one in receptions. Calling him a ONE TRICK PONY (so not a complete WR) So why would that argument be made that he wasnt a "number 1 WR"? Wasnt he our #1? He caught the most balls. So all those posts should never have existed because according to your definition, he was a number 1. So was Lees inability to "go over the middle" the QB's fault or was he just not good at it? Either way it was said by many people in many articles that Lee wasnt a true number 1. But he was, wasnt he? He caught the most balls all those seasons right?

 

So go on with your line of thinking. I predict Sj wont be on the team in 2 years and if Rogers is any good he wont see the field in Pro sets by mid season. (healthy or not)

 

Ah, ok, so you are just stirring the pot...thanks for making it clear.

[biglukes]

 

 

Ah, ok, so you are just stirring the pot...thanks for making it clear.

Yep, there's the confirmation that he's a troll and nothing else. I mean, that's if there was anybody still on the fence about it.

[mrags]

You still never proved by showing any evidence about his drops in 2010. You even said you couldn't find it, that you "remembered seeing it somewhere". Come on guy.

 

Lee Evans was not a complete receiver in that he almost never did anything but run deep. He either refused to go over the middle or couldn't. Regardless about what you say about Stevie, he has the ability to be considered a #1. He might not be as fast as some of the #1s you point out, but he's not sluggishly slow either. He's made all the catches a #1 WR could make. He's caught them deep (when Fitz' noodle arm could get it to him), he's a master at going over the middle. He's absolutely automatic on 3rd downs on slant routes. He hasn't missed a game in 3 years.

 

Your only argument that can even be considered is that he drops balls. When you've been proven that he doesn't drop as many as some of the "true #1s" that you claim he doesn't match up against.

 

I've got news for you, the more times you get thrown the ball, the more times your gonna drop it. Stevie gets thrown the ball a lot. Hell, TO is statistically the 3rd best WR in the history of the game. He dropped a ton of passes. You've got to be given the opportunity to drop them.

 

I believe Rogers is going to be good. Very good. He does have all the ability to be a #1 in this league. But your absolutely whacko if you think by seasons end Stevie (barring injury) will be passed over for him or any other WR on this team. But of course there will be a handful of plays in certain situations that will happen and of course you'll claim you were right all along.

 

The thought of not having Stevie on this team in 2 years sounds great actually. Not that I don't love having Stevie on this team. But that would only mean that TJ, Woods, Rogers, and Goodwin have all shown to be great WRs. In that case, we are probably a Super Bowl winner and can offload some talent for draft picks because we have the depth behind him. Hey, it's crazy, I know. But since your writing the book on batchit crazy, I feel like it belongs here.

 

My personal opinion here, you are butthurt that Stevie dropped a pass for a sure TD against Pittsburgh (something many other WRs, even "True #1s have done). That and you are probably an old fart that doesn't like kids being in your lawn, or kids and their crazy getups now days. You don't like the shoes Stevie wears, or the way he wears his hats. It maybe its those fake glasses that he's always wearing with no lenses. I'm almost positive that even after a TD, you have nothing but negative things to say because you think he's an idiot, punk kid that doesn't deserve to be here. You probably don't like the celebrations, even though many "True #1s" have many celebrations. Celebrations that cost their team yards. Hell, Megatron and DeSean Jackson have cost their team at least 2 wins each because of celebrations. They are both number 1s aren't they?

 

Maybe we should start an argument that "True #1s" don't make celebrations, or cost their team penalties. I'm guessing that Reggie Wayne would probably be the only WR in that list right now.

 

I'm so sick of this thread. Sick of trolls. I'm begging the OP to close it because this is just getting ridiculous now. Please!!!!! With sugar on top, close this thread MitchMurray

Edited August 6, 2013 by mrags

[Cold Front]

wrong wrong and wrong. Do you understand the difference between total drops and drop percentage? Also they stats are based on "catchable balls" so the QB makes no difference if the ball was an easy pass to grab, he didnt grab as high of percentage as almost all starting number 1 WR's on 32 teams for 2 years 2010 and 2012... You cant argue your way out of that. Moulds did not line up in the slot save for a few gadget plays like all WR might do once in a while. He was never a slot WR. I maybe wrong about Reeds Percentage I didnt look it up, nor know if its possible to look it up but no one will argue he didnt play outside as well and had no problem doing so because he was a complete receiver, a true #1. And Jerry being slower in a single 40 measurement is irrelevant. He had a 10+ year history of getting open deep and catching a large amount of deep TDs. He was in the 18 to 20 YPC in his first 5 years. He didnt get close to SJ's YPC until his 12th year! How many deep TDs has SJ caught in the last 3 years as our unquestioned top WR? One, maybe 2?

 

Basically this argument has devolved into you 5 guys being "right" because you wont accept my definition of a #1. Trying to say theres only "elite" WRs or "number 1 on said team" Some people believe, understand and dont pretend to ignore, what other people mean when they call some one a number 1 type WR.

 

Proof- When Evans was here many people including media said they didnt think he could be a number 1. what did they mean??? He couldnt catch the most balls on his team?? People began posting demanding him to be traded even though for many years he was our number one in receptions. Calling him a ONE TRICK PONY (so not a complete WR) So why would that argument be made that he wasnt a "number 1 WR"? Wasnt he our #1? He caught the most balls. So all those posts should never have existed because according to your definition, he was a number 1. So was Lees inability to "go over the middle" the QB's fault or was he just not good at it? Either way it was said by many people in many articles that Lee wasnt a true number 1. But he was, wasnt he? He caught the most balls all those seasons right?

 

So go on with your line of thinking. I predict Sj wont be on the team in 2 years and if Rogers is any good he wont see the field in Pro sets by mid season. (healthy or not)

 

96 bills starting wr's A.Reed and Q. Early. E moulds was the slot man until he was eventually benched in favor of tasker.

 

Your the one that said stevie lacks speed. I merely pointed out the best wr to ever play the game was slower.

 

How can you blame stevie for the lack of + 20 yard catches. He's had capt.check down, and the bearded potato cannon as qb. With the lack of Qb who could throw deep with any kind of velosity and accuracy, those 3 1,000 yard seasons are amazing. last year 1 or 2 deep passes wow.

 

I never brought up Lee Evans, all he could do was run go routes. He also had qb's who could throw them. So yes while he was our #1, he lacked a complete game. Leading a team in reception's dosen't automatically make you a #1 wr, its takes leadership, ability, as well as production. Stevie has those 3 qualities.

 

As for your prediction lmao. if stevie isn't here in 2 years it will be in a cost saving move because russ is cheap, and woods or someone stepped up and made him expendable. But Stevie would still be a #1 wr just on a different team. Now you are enlightened

Edited August 7, 2013 by Zombieland

[Russ]

 

 

Yes i do understand the difference between drops and drop percentage. Do you? Your quoting drop rate like its gospel. So using your link lets look at drop percentage.

 

stevie 90 catchable balls 11 drops % = 8.18

 

calvin johnson 136 catchable balls 14 drops %= 9.71

welker catchable balls 133 15 drops % 8.87

brandon marshall catchable balls 136 14 drops % =10.08

demaryius thomas catchable 105 11 drops %=9.54

dez bryant catchable 11 drops % =9.36

 

stevie isn't in the the top 5 in drop % among #1 wr in the link you posted

 

It's been a while since I calculated a %, so I apologize if I'm wrong, but aren't your calculations a little off? I think you may have reversed the numerator and the denominator.

[Cold Front]

It's been a while since I calculated a %, so I apologize if I'm wrong, but aren't your calculations a little off? I think you may have reversed the numerator and the denominator.

 

Russ you are correct, and no sorry i was wrong. After a 16 hr double my math was hazy. I calculated the average # of drops per supposedly "catchable balls."

Which would be an actual drop rate and not a percentage.

[mrags]

 

 

Russ you are correct, and no sorry i was wrong. After a 16 hr double my math was hazy. I calculated the average # of drops per supposedly "catchable balls."

Which would be an actual drop rate and not a percentage.

16 hour double. Sounds like you work for the state

 

???