Tiberius Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 It would appear that Progressives value spending throwing money at education and appeasing a large segment (teachers) of their own rather than actually fixing the problems, i.e tenure, political correctness and liberalism. Yes, liberalism is being taught in the schools. If Progressives really cared they would care enough to want to know why charter schools were outperforming public education, rather than wanting to shut them down. The biggest problem for education is the poverty the children come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 the data is less than convincing as to superiority of outcomes vis a vis chater schools. if they're proven to be more effective then they should be considered. but why not first consider international models that have clearly superior outcomes? not directly replying to this statement but a major fact of this issue is that even in the worst states there are superior schools. Make whatever case you want but RDU and Charlotte have some of the best schools in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 not directly replying to this statement but a major fact of this issue is that even in the worst states there are superior schools. Make whatever case you want but RDU and Charlotte have some of the best schools in the region. Are there lots of Northern transplants in those areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 so if bad outcomes are a direct result of demorat policies, explain why so many blue states are at the top of the pile and so many red states are at the bottom. read here how the world's top ranked educational system values teachers: http://www.whichcoun...m-in-the-world/ Valuing teachers, truly valuing them, has exactly 0 to do with how the Democrats and their union contributors have run the public education system for the last 40 years. The only value we currently place on teachers is as: 1. a commodity, from which to draw dues, if you are a Democrat, because those dues pay for your candidates. 2. a babysitter, that you don't pay for unless you pay property tax, which allows you the rest of the day to get high, lay around, watch TV in peace, etc. 3. a gatekeeper, that stands between your kid getting what he "deserves", in terms of grades that he needs to get into college. Thus, all one needs to do is rush the gate to get the grades, and it helps to rush them with lots of other parents. It really helps if you threaten the union control of the system, because then the gate is thrown wide open....by union demands that nobody get bad grades and/or "common core" principles of "one-size-fits-all" grading, because we force everyone onto a one size fits all track, and thus, it's no one's fault if the kid doesn't learn anything other than how to take tests. 4. a means to an end, that provides employers with bodies, that hopefully have some semblance of ability Thus, we don't value them at all in this current system. And, no amount of $ added to the current system, is going to cause us to value them more, or more importantly, value them PROPERLY, as a key element in our lives. In my travels, I've learned that my 7+8th accelerated grade math teacher is now a full-blown alcoholic, but, it doesn't mean I don't value her. She was the first teacher I ever had whose class was relatively difficult, and she refused to let me coast. I learned how to approach hard intellectual work from her. And that's the point: I, the student, values her. Notice how there is no student in 1-4 above? What I would call the "business rules" of the current education system tell me that no amount of money makes it work better. We need to change these rules. If charter schools change the rules, so be it. We need complete change here. We can't keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. That change can't only come from schools. If you look at each of the countries, also look at how their parents operate. Whether it is a cultural thing hardly matters as the behavior of good parents is always: the same. Lack of good parent behavior is a huge problem. The biggest threat to good parent behavior? "Progressive Policies". So, I agree, we need to value teachers properly, but we cannot do that as long as "progressive policies" and our relationship with teachers is dictated by bad actors and those whose agenda is guided primarily by something other than students. We need to change how we value teachers, but that largely depends on what we expect from parents, and that 100% depends on removing the policies that contribute to bad parent behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Are there lots of Northern transplants in those areas? Silly you... Don't you know your history? Carpetbaggers were/are affiliated w/the Republicans. So, it is the northerners that will straighten NC out! Edited April 22, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Silly you... Don't you know your history? Carpetbaggers were/are affiliated w/the Republicans. So, it is the northerners that will straighten NC out! Yeah, my Northern engineer and IT friends who have moved to NC, most of whom are apolitical, and the rest center-left....were alive during Reconstruction. It's all the same history thing...because it all happened...before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Yeah, my Northern engineer and IT friends who have moved to NC, most of whom are apolitical, and the rest center-left....were alive during Reconstruction. It's all the same history thing...because it all happened...before. Jesus Christ, I do not understand EII. Now that he and Gator are buddy buddy I have lost all hope for him. Sorry, Eric, but you have lead me to believe you just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Yeah, my Northern engineer and IT friends who have moved to NC, most of whom are apolitical, and the rest center-left....were alive during Reconstruction. It's all the same history thing...because it all happened...before. Thanks for playing along. Send the memo to boyst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 It is making a big headline here of recent. Harry Reid and his Super PAC are spending tons on Hagan for Senate over Thom Tillis. It's remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/06/14/4975947/nc-teacher-exodus-is-also-about.html#.U6nuJ7F11Ig Here we go Birdbrain. Have it. Because I really want to know why the big mouth in that article opens her trap. Why? Because McCrory is the first Republican to stand up to the teachers unions who could give a crap about the students? Why does this idiot not speak up against the NC Education lottery not doing anything to support schools? Why isn't she bitching about how the lottery is not benefiting anyone but those in the government raiding its coffers and funding their horrible programs? Instead, she tries to cling to some program that I am sure has not benefited anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 46th in the country in teacher pay and driving quickly towards last. 12th in the nation in Cost of Living. Nothing like cherry picking stats because it fits your liberal ideals. North Carolina is in terrible trouble concerning Public Employee Pension Liabilities - which is the real crisis nationwide that's crushing education: http://www.forbes.co...led-experiment/ This is a continuing theme where unions have bankrupted the taxpayer across the public spectrum. They build our schools at a significantly increased cost and then "negotiate" with the public "servants" they put in office for long term, sweet yet unaffordable deals for the public employees that will run them. Then they help pass laws to keep from having to really disclose what's going on and use their "friends" in the media to blame everyone but themselves. Lather, rinse, repeat. The fact that President Obama is still playing the "Bush Bad" card after over 5 YEARS should be a warning light even for you but you're so !@#$ing indoctrinated that you can't see through the bukkake on your visage. The next time you want to find a patsy for the state of education in this country, go ahead and look right in the mirror. You !@#$ing sheep. Everything in life is about balance - something liberals have no understanding of. Giving a central authority full autonomy to control every facet of the game is a recipe for disaster. Learn from history or die from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 12th in the nation in Cost of Living. Silly republican. this is the only point in your post that's salient to the argument. and it's important because it illustrates the need for nc to have a much more competitive pay scale for teacxhers. and insults aren't considered impressive methods of debate. silly, simple conservative. . it's all about priorities. have you ever considered what reasons other than cost might motivate conservative pols to undermine public education?. it's really not that difficult. it really is that sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Silly republican. this is the only point in your post that's salient to the argument. and it's important because it illustrates the need for nc to have a much more competitive pay scale for teacxhers. and insults aren't considered impressive methods of debate. silly, simple conservative. . it's all about priorities. have you ever considered what reasons other than cost might motivate conservative pols to undermine public education?. it's really not that difficult. it really is that sinister. Competitive pay? Compared to who? Explain the sinister part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Competitive pay? Compared to who? Explain the sinister part? really? compared to national standards. merdians, means, etc. educated people are more difficult to lie to, to influence, to make engage in group think, to be complacent on controversial issues, to dissuade freom voting...i could go on but i trust you can come up with some more now that the ball is rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 republican. Wrong. this is the only point in your post that's salient to the argument. Wrong. This is just another one of those things that you "indoctrinated" tards don't get. There's a finite amount of resources available and if you choose to pay people a high wage despite the fact that they no longer perform a service for you, it has a significant downstream effect. That's why the market-based world has gone to a defined contribution system. Pensions are simply unsustainable. and it's important because it illustrates the need for nc to have a much more competitive pay scale for teacxhers. and insults aren't considered impressive methods of debate. silly, simple conservative. . I doubt the pay scale in North Carolina has much to do with getting/retaining teachers or the quality of education. I suspect that the liberal systems in place that don't punish malaise nor reward competence, the socially liberal "programs," and removal of virtually every disciplinary tool from the educator is far more to blame. Keep doing what you're always doing, you'll keep getting what you're always getting. it's all about priorities. have you ever considered what reasons other than cost might motivate conservative pols to undermine public education?. it's really not that difficult. it really is that sinister. Yeah, it's a big conspiracy by the conservatives to keep people down. Even though LIBERALS are clearly the ones who benefit most from a larger number of people needing assistance. How !@#$ing stupid are you? I wish you self-avowed "intelligent" liberals were forced to live amongst those you think you're "helping," instead of just waxing poetically about them at the parties where you get together to sniff each others farts. You'd find out what the ramifications of your stupidity really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 really? compared to national standards. merdians, means, etc. educated people are more difficult to lie to, to influence, to make engage in group think, to be complacent on controversial issues, to dissuade freom voting...i could go on but i trust you can come up with some more now that the ball is rolling. http://youtu.be/rytC4QsIiG8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I doubt the pay scale in North Carolina has much to do with getting/retaining teachers or the quality of education. I suspect that the liberal systems in place that don't punish malaise nor reward competence, the socially liberal "programs," and removal of virtually every disciplinary tool from the educator is far more to blame. Keep doing what you're always doing, you'll keep getting what you're always getting. The squealing you're hearing is, in part, that NC has put a plan in motion to eliminate tenure by 2018, in addition to cutting costs for some programs because the progressives left the state treasury in what can only be described as a Detroit-like state. This has lead protesters in NC to show up every Monday for peaceful protests at the state capital. The name of the protests: Moral Mondays. Because, you see, it's immoral to not keep someone on payroll simply because they've managed to stay on payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 really? compared to national standards. merdians, means, etc. So how does the pay in NC stack up to those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The biggest problem for education is the poverty the children come from. Incorrect. The poverty, much like the low value placed on education, are both symptoms of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) 12th in the nation in Cost of Living. Nothing like cherry picking stats because it fits your liberal ideals. North Carolina is in terrible trouble concerning Public Employee Pension Liabilities - which is the real crisis nationwide that's crushing education: http://www.forbes.co...led-experiment/ This is a continuing theme where unions have bankrupted the taxpayer across the public spectrum. They build our schools at a significantly increased cost and then "negotiate" with the public "servants" they put in office for long term, sweet yet unaffordable deals for the public employees that will run them. Then they help pass laws to keep from having to really disclose what's going on and use their "friends" in the media to blame everyone but themselves. Lather, rinse, repeat. The fact that President Obama is still playing the "Bush Bad" card after over 5 YEARS should be a warning light even for you but you're so !@#$ing indoctrinated that you can't see through the bukkake on your visage. The next time you want to find a patsy for the state of education in this country, go ahead and look right in the mirror. You !@#$ing sheep. Everything in life is about balance - something liberals have no understanding of. Giving a central authority full autonomy to control every facet of the game is a recipe for disaster. Learn from history or die from it. I really wonder if the only thing he looked up or cared to pay attention to was the word bukkake. The squealing you're hearing is, in part, that NC has put a plan in motion to eliminate tenure by 2018, in addition to cutting costs for some programs because the progressives left the state treasury in what can only be described as a Detroit-like state. This has lead protesters in NC to show up every Monday for peaceful protests at the state capital. The name of the protests: Moral Mondays. Because, you see, it's immoral to not keep someone on payroll simply because they've managed to stay on payroll. Moral Mondays still make national news from time to time. Every Monday and Tuesday they make state news here on a few TV stations. They'll usually mention the info objected to and then show someone getting arrested and lead out in handcuffs. Once in a while they find a white little girl to give a quote or just show her holding a sign. It has got so bad that they now have to video tape each arrest and action taken by police. http://www.newsobser...s-continue.html But, as this article points out, it is not about the same old song and dance it is a new fight they are raising: The demonstrators who have been railing against the N.C. legislative policies and agenda of the past two years plan to move their march from the state capital to the voting polls. At a “Moral Monday” demonstration on Monday that drew nearly 1,300 people, according to police estimates, 15 protesters refused to leave the Legislative Building when asked. Their act of civil disobedience, which resulted in arrests and charges of trespass, brought the number of arrests and citations from civil disobedience over the past two years to more than 1,000. “We have exposed the hypocrisy,” the Rev. William J. Barber II, head of the state NAACP and a chief organizer of the protests, told a crowd gathered on Halifax Mall before the arrests. “Now is the time to organize.” Hypocrisy. edit: And for those who read the article and see Dr. Wos mentioned no one ever mentions that for her job she turned down the $128,000 she was due to get and instead accepted a $1 token. Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/06/23/3959530/moral-monday-demonstrators-continue.html#storylink=cpy Edited June 25, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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