City residents do not want a park in their neighborhood...

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

...because a park will bring "undesirables" and increase crime:

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/07/29/neighbours_fight_parkette_at_jane_and_sheppard_hume.html

[John Adams]

The amount of whining people do in their communities is unreal. I am working a million different angles to get more green space at parking lots and rundown schools for playing fields that thousands of local kids in my community could use. The township cost is negligible--we have the money pretty much in order. But the second one resident complains about having kids yelling while they are playing soccer at 11am on a Saturday, all the politicians pu$$y out and won't back the plan. I only wish this was true but the politicians refuse to take even the most obvious stands if there's one vocal complainer, ie, douchenozzle.

 

And that's the unlit fields. To get lights installed that would have automatic shutoffs at 8pm--again so kids could practice from 6-8 at night--would take an act of god. Because god forbid there be a lit field from 6-8pm in the Fall that would affect 6 houses. And by affect, I mean that they would look out on a lit field, not that the lights would shine into their house.

[IDBillzFan]

The amount of whining people do in their communities is unreal. I am working a million different angles to get more green space at parking lots and rundown schools for playing fields that thousands of local kids in my community could use. The township cost is negligible--we have the money pretty much in order. But the second one resident complains about having kids yelling while they are playing soccer at 11am on a Saturday, all the politicians pu$$y out and won't back the plan. I only wish this was true but the politicians refuse to take even the most obvious stands if there's one vocal complainer, ie, douchenozzle.

 

And that's the unlit fields. To get lights installed that would have automatic shutoffs at 8pm--again so kids could practice from 6-8 at night--would take an act of god. Because god forbid there be a lit field from 6-8pm in the Fall that would affect 6 houses. And by affect, I mean that they would look out on a lit field, not that the lights would shine into their house.

 

This is absolutely mind-boggling. What you're trying to do is so important and so valuable to any community. That local politicians don't have the nutsack to serve the greater good of their community is embarrassing, especially when all the hard work is being done BY the community.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Actually, I agree with the folks in protesting the construction of the park in the OP. I've seen this happen in my own community, and crime rates have increased because of it.

 

This ill-conceived mess was constructed along the border of two wealthy towns in Rhode Island. It joins two of the poorer cities in the state with higher crime populations. As can be expected, the easy, off road gateway often serves as a "cover of night" crime path for the less than desirables who live in the bookend cities.

[NoSaint]

its amazing sometimes. locally theres a park that many had kind of co-opted into a neighborhood dog park - couple of blocks long and probably a section of about 30 yards by 30 yards max was being used by dogs. its an area that before the dogs was littered with homeless and strung out users and you could find any number associated issues daily (paraphernalia, passed out people etc...). with the dogs it was constantly being kept clean and was a community gathering spot... best condition i had ever seen the area in. a single neighbor moved into a house overlooking the park and complained and now its back to no mutts but lots of sketchy people.

 

Actually, I agree with the folks in protesting the construction of the park in the OP. I've seen this happen in my own community, and crime rates have increased because of it.

 

This ill-conceived mess was constructed along the border of two wealthy towns in Rhode Island. It joins two of the poorer cities in the state with higher crime populations. As can be expected, the easy, off road gateway often serves as a "cover of night" crime path for the less than desirables who live in the bookend cities.

 

and that can definitely be the flip side - i wont fault an area if this is a real concern. for it to be a successful community space, the community has to want it. its a shame if one or two vocal people ruin it for the rest but i will agree not all green space is good green space.

Edited July 29, 2013 by NoSaint

[John Adams]

This is absolutely mind-boggling. What you're trying to do is so important and so valuable to any community. That local politicians don't have the nutsack to serve the greater good of their community is embarrassing, especially when all the hard work is being done BY the community.

 

I could show you email strings where the local State Congresscritter (I live just outside his district so I don't even get the pleasure of voting against him) told me that if I could convince the 2 d-bag neighbors, he'd be 100% behind it. And the local township people whose support I really need won't move without the State Congressdick's approval even though they are all 100% for it. They are afraid to go against him and the party (Dems in this district).

 

So I figured, as DC Tom admires the move, if Obama could make a beer summit work, maybe I should try it. I live 2 blocks from these people and I invite them out to a local bar for wings and a beer. One guy says that I can't buy him off and he doesn't want a park. Tells me never to contact him again. OK. The other guy doesn't respond. So I call the no-response guy and he sounds like he hasn't left his house in 40 years, wheezing and spitting into the phone "I don't want no kids making noise" is his quote. He then went back to gnawing on his dead mother's femur. The guy's completely nucking futs but he's loud and annoying. His neighbors all hate him because he's a packrat. But there it is.

 

I haven't given up but it's truly mind-boggling. There are no concerns about it becoming a drug or homeless haven. We literally want to take an old parking lot and building that the township now owns and cannot get rid of (it's now owned this lot for 17 years) and turn it into green space. Nothing crazy. We will do the work although we have requested a price break on the value of the land and are willing to share the land with the local parks commission but we will do all the work to prepare and maintain it. None of that part of the plan has any objection to it. It's just the neighbors issue.

 

That's the big project. The smaller one: lighting a field until 8pm is 100x more contentious. The 3 neighbors on that one say that we are trying to turn their local park into a stadium and they have rallied behind that cry. Meanwhile, there's no seating and we just want practice space on fall evenings.

[DC Tom]

This is absolutely mind-boggling. What you're trying to do is so important and so valuable to any community. That local politicians don't have the nutsack to serve the greater good of their community is embarrassing, especially when all the hard work is being done BY the community.

 

Valuable? It sounds like an attempt to create an inhumane suburban wasteland...

[4merper4mer]

I could show you email strings where the local State Congresscritter (I live just outside his district so I don't even get the pleasure of voting against him) told me that if I could convince the 2 d-bag neighbors, he'd be 100% behind it. And the local township people whose support I really need won't move without the State Congressdick's approval even though they are all 100% for it. They are afraid to go against him and the party (Dems in this district).

 

So I figured, as DC Tom admires the move, if Obama could make a beer summit work, maybe I should try it. I live 2 blocks from these people and I invite them out to a local bar for wings and a beer. One guy says that I can't buy him off and he doesn't want a park. Tells me never to contact him again. OK. The other guy doesn't respond. So I call the no-response guy and he sounds like he hasn't left his house in 40 years, wheezing and spitting into the phone "I don't want no kids making noise" is his quote. He then went back to gnawing on his dead mother's femur. The guy's completely nucking futs but he's loud and annoying. His neighbors all hate him because he's a packrat. But there it is.

 

I haven't given up but it's truly mind-boggling. There are no concerns about it becoming a drug or homeless haven. We literally want to take an old parking lot and building that the township now owns and cannot get rid of (it's now owned this lot for 17 years) and turn it into green space. Nothing crazy. We will do the work although we have requested a price break on the value of the land and are willing to share the land with the local parks commission but we will do all the work to prepare and maintain it. None of that part of the plan has any objection to it. It's just the neighbors issue.

 

That's the big project. The smaller one: lighting a field until 8pm is 100x more contentious. The 3 neighbors on that one say that we are trying to turn their local park into a stadium and they have rallied behind that cry. Meanwhile, there's no seating and we just want practice space on fall evenings.

 

I think you should keep trying because it is good for the kids but if soccer isn't quiet and boring enough for these people then I doubt anything will ever be.

 

Anyway I think the beer summit was a good idea. Maybe try to find something that interests the ornery neighbors but it sounds like that won't work.

 

I think your best shot is to find three or more other neighbors in favor of the park that are willing to be louder than the two dissenting neighbors and then sick those people on the congresscritter.

[Buff_bills4ever]

Best way to prevent crime in a park is to get people down there after hours. Maybe you could try to get a few local businesses or entrepreneurs together to see if they'd be interested in putting up a small shop or two (Ice cream stand, burger shack, hobby shop, whatever) that would get people down there after dark?

[IDBillzFan]

I could show you email strings where the local State Congresscritter (I live just outside his district so I don't even get the pleasure of voting against him) told me that if I could convince the 2 d-bag neighbors, he'd be 100% behind it. And the local township people whose support I really need won't move without the State Congressdick's approval even though they are all 100% for it. They are afraid to go against him and the party (Dems in this district).

 

I'd take it to the local newspaper. Bring the guy's email. See if the paper will bite; maybe they'll call the congressman for a comment. What's the worst that can happen? They still say no?

[John Adams]

I'd take it to the local newspaper. Bring the guy's email. See if the paper will bite; maybe they'll call the congressman for a comment. What's the worst that can happen? They still say no?

 

Embarrassing the Congressman is not the route to success. That's my PPP way of being but out here in the real world, I know that won't work. We might win this skirmish but then our non-profit creates an enemy. Not worth it.

 

Funny thing to whoever suggested that we just drown out the negative voices. You're right of course. The pro-park people outnumber the jagoffs at least 5-1. But that's the problem: People (politicians) are afraid of the loudmouths. If this politician does nothing, then it's status quo. No one is really that upset with him. If he takes a stand and pisses off some big mouthed losers, they will get vocal about this and a million other things so the pols get afraid and shift the burden on to someone like me (and our soccer club) to figure out how to basically convince everyone. Then he will show up for the photo op. I already went through one of these neighborhood park things and that's exactly how the first one (much smaller) went. I got the "convince the neighborhood and I'll back you" speech. I convinced the neighborhood then he came in and patted his back when we opened the park. It was fine but it's really quite a sleazefest. And honestly, this guy is a nobody who is going nowhere but even in our tinly little township, all the commissioners have to suck his dong just to do simple brainer things like creating more greenspace at no cost to taxpayers.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John Adams

[DC Tom]

Funny thing to whoever suggested that we just drown out the negative voices. You're right of course. The pro-park people outnumber the jagoffs at least 5-1. But that's the problem: People (politicians) are afraid of the loudmouths.

 

That's why embarrassing them works.

 

And LA's not really talking about "embarrassing" them - it's not like he's suggesting you fake sexting messages from the guy. Just call attention to the fact that he's not representing the constituency's interest, but the loudmouths'.

[GG]

Embarrassing the Congressman is not the route to success. That's my PPP way of being but out here in the real world, I know that won't work. We might win this skirmish but then our non-profit creates an enemy. Not worth it.

 

Funny thing to whoever suggested that we just drown out the negative voices. You're right of course. The pro-park people outnumber the jagoffs at least 5-1. But that's the problem: People (politicians) are afraid of the loudmouths. If this politician does nothing, then it's status quo. No one is really that upset with him. If he takes a stand and pisses off some big mouthed losers, they will get vocal about this and a million other things so the pols get afraid and shift the burden on to someone like me (and our soccer club) to figure out how to basically convince everyone. Then he will show up for the photo op. I already went through one of these neighborhood park things and that's exactly how the first one (much smaller) went. I got the "convince the neighborhood and I'll back you" speech. I convinced the neighborhood then he came in and patted his back when we opened the park. It was fine but it's really quite a sleazefest. And honestly, this guy is a nobody who is going nowhere but even in our tinly little township, all the commissioners have to suck his dong just to do simple brainer things like creating more greenspace at no cost to taxpayers.

 

Sounds like he may have a career as a building contractor in PA.

[Joe Miner]

Embarrassing the Congressman is not the route to success. That's my PPP way of being but out here in the real world, I know that won't work. We might win this skirmish but then our non-profit creates an enemy. Not worth it.

 

Funny thing to whoever suggested that we just drown out the negative voices. You're right of course. The pro-park people outnumber the jagoffs at least 5-1. But that's the problem: People (politicians) are afraid of the loudmouths. If this politician does nothing, then it's status quo. No one is really that upset with him. If he takes a stand and pisses off some big mouthed losers, they will get vocal about this and a million other things so the pols get afraid and shift the burden on to someone like me (and our soccer club) to figure out how to basically convince everyone. Then he will show up for the photo op. I already went through one of these neighborhood park things and that's exactly how the first one (much smaller) went. I got the "convince the neighborhood and I'll back you" speech. I convinced the neighborhood then he came in and patted his back when we opened the park. It was fine but it's really quite a sleazefest. And honestly, this guy is a nobody who is going nowhere but even in our tinly little township, all the commissioners have to suck his dong just to do simple brainer things like creating more greenspace at no cost to taxpayers.

 

You could always go the union route and put a big inflatable jackass in his yard

[IDBillzFan]

That's why embarrassing them works.

 

And LA's not really talking about "embarrassing" them - it's not like he's suggesting you fake sexting messages from the guy. Just call attention to the fact that he's not representing the constituency's interest, but the loudmouths'.

 

Pretty much. The guy wasn't elected to serve only two people. And the fourth wall has many purposes, one of which is to give voice to the small. The congressman wouldn't think twice about calling the paper to get his point across. If you cede the media to him/her, you're pissing in the wind.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Actually, I agree with the folks in protesting the construction of the park in the OP. I've seen this happen in my own community, and crime rates have increased because of it.

 

This ill-conceived mess was constructed along the border of two wealthy towns in Rhode Island. It joins two of the poorer cities in the state with higher crime populations. As can be expected, the easy, off road gateway often serves as a "cover of night" crime path for the less than desirables who live in the bookend cities.

 

So, don't build a greenway and leave you alone in your own private Idaho, right?

[TakeYouToTasker]

So, don't build a greenway and leave you alone in your own private Idaho, right?

Hey, I'm the one who foots the tax bill, so yes.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Hey, I'm the one who foots the tax bill, so yes.

 

No. Does everybody in the gentrified, well off towns feel the same way as you? So, just let the interconnection between the undesirables lay fallow and go to waste?

[DC Tom]

Actually, I agree with the folks in protesting the construction of the park in the OP. I've seen this happen in my own community, and crime rates have increased because of it.

 

This ill-conceived mess was constructed along the border of two wealthy towns in Rhode Island. It joins two of the poorer cities in the state with higher crime populations. As can be expected, the easy, off road gateway often serves as a "cover of night" crime path for the less than desirables who live in the bookend cities.

 

We had a similar park near where we used to live. It was a major drug corridor.

 

And crime-free (otherwise), because the dealers did NOT want a police presence in the area cutting into their bottom line. One time, some yahoo robbed the local 7-11, and by the time the police arrived to take statements the drug gangs had already delivered the guy, hog-tied, to them.;

 

Safest neighborhood I ever lived in. Safer than the one I'm in now, with just enough "Justice for Trayvon" morons in it to be frightening.

[TakeYouToTasker]

No. Does everybody in the gentrified, well off towns feel the same way as you? So, just let the interconnection between the undesirables lay fallow and go to waste?

Largely, yes, they agree. Their back yards have turned from pristine woodland into a public park connected to ghettos, and their back yards are now littered with beer cans, drug paraphanilia, and used condoms. Break-ins and home invasions have risen; and it's our rising property and car tax dollars that go to fund it.