boyst Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 The only way Smith would be considered for gadget plays is if the QBs fail in craptastic fashion. You don't pull the most important player on the offensive side of the ball out of the game in critical situations unless that player can't get it done. I hope that those days are behind us. But, you can intigrate. You can put Manual on the field with Smith when Smith is at QB2, WR, RB, TE, etc. Smith is like carrying a Swiss Army knife in cargo pocket on your left knee. It's not the first thing you go for but when you go for it you can find a few ways it can help you out from time to time.
Beerball Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 But, you can intigrate. You can put Manual on the field with Smith when Smith is at QB2, WR, RB, TE, etc. Smith is like carrying a Swiss Army knife in cargo pocket on your left knee. It's not the first thing you go for but when you go for it you can find a few ways it can help you out from time to time. The devil's advocate in me wants to ask...have you removed a 'better' QB, WR, RB, TE from the field to make room for Smith? If you have, is that a good thing? I get versatility, but talent rules IMO.
Leelee Phoenix Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 While I agree with that in theory, Smith has averaged 6.0 yards per carry since he came here and 7.3 for his career. CJ 5.4. I'm not saying that Smith is in the same hemisphere as CJ as a runner, but for a guy who everyone knows is going to run to still average 6 yards a carry is pretty damn effective. Which is why I wish Brad would get more than a carry per game. At least try using him. He's proven he's effective. As for what he's been the last 2 years, he's a ripoff and I don't understand the Bills re-signing him. Unless they have little faith in the rookie WRs...
NoSaint Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) The devil's advocate in me wants to ask...have you removed a 'better' QB, WR, RB, TE from the field to make room for Smith? If you have, is that a good thing? I get versatility, but talent rules IMO. Depends - did the defense just see you trot out 4 WRs and then smith walks into the backfield to run against a bunch of DBs? While talent rules, versatility and some gamesmanship to get matchups is needed or you end up like our defense last year. Talent is both on the field as well as play design. I'd also say heaven forbid Stevie tears his ACL week 1- who are you lining up at WR? It'd be nice to have more than one guy left that's taken even a single snap in the nfl And as others have mentioned he can play all units of special teams - a nice perk. Edited July 27, 2013 by NoSaint
boyst Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 The devil's advocate in me wants to ask...have you removed a 'better' QB, WR, RB, TE from the field to make room for Smith? If you have, is that a good thing? I get versatility, but talent rules IMO. No. And you would not want to. When a player goes down or needs a breath it is nice to just call Brad Smiths number and tell him to go play football. If Graham makes a big return or play, or SJ13 is feeling a little sore, or Dickerson is fatigued or any one of our TE's needs a play off... why not put Brad Smith in the mix. Brad Smith at 2nd or 3rd in depth rotation is just as capable to go in and contribute as Marcus Easley or the 3rd TE or others.
Beerball Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 Depends - did the defense just see you trot out 4 WRs and then smith walks into the backfield to run against a bunch of DBs? While talent rules, versatility and some gamesmanship to get matchups is needed or you end up like our defense last year. Talent is both on the field as well as play design. I'd also say heaven forbid Stevie tears his ACL week 1- who are you lining up at WR? It'd be nice to have more than one guy left that's taken even a single snap in the nfl And as others have mentioned he can play all units of special teams - a nice perk. I didn't say cut him. I didn't say he couldn't play special teams. What I did say, or intended, was that I hope his gimmick days are behind him. Short term or if used infrequently it's a weapon. Every game is desperation IMO.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 Love to see the details of the deal. i will guess maybe it will try to focus B. Smith at WR. A fair base salary with not crazy gauranteed. It most likely will include incentives for catches, yards, touchdowns, etc... My hope is that if B. Smith focus' his time and energy at WR he will be a solid one. The guy is 6'2 215lbs and can run like a deer. He has almost the same type of big play potential that CJ has. It may not pan out and he may not be able to take the step to becoming just a legit WR, but it is worth the shot.
K-9 Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 I didn't say cut him. I didn't say he couldn't play special teams. What I did say, or intended, was that I hope his gimmick days are behind him. Short term or if used infrequently it's a weapon. Every game is desperation IMO. As someone alluded to upthread, Manuel's athletic gifts preclude the need for Smith to come in for gadget plays, at least when Manuel is the QB. Perhaps Marrone dials a play up here and there if Kolb is getting the bulk of he PT. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 As someone alluded to upthread, Manuel's athletic gifts preclude the need for Smith to come in for gadget plays, at least when Manuel is the QB. Perhaps Marrone dials a play up here and there if Kolb is getting the bulk of he PT. GO BILLS!!! And gadget plays have a spot in the game still. Wildcat or otherwise - I'm not talking 10 snaps a game but every now and again its good to keep the defense guessing/off balance. We don't need a full wildcat package but if they want to have 1-2 direct snaps in the playbook that they pull out in the right situations unexpectedly I won't be upset. Glad to see him out of the qb room though.
Gugny Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 So Beerball thinks Smith is just a gadget player who should have been cut?!! Ridiculous.
BillsWatch Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 Remember Pettine was coaching defense when Smith was a Jet and he may have seen things about Smith there that he inputted into reviews. Pettine is not strictly a defense coach. He also saw how defenses adjusted to Smith being in there.
bladiebla Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) He's an upgrade over Ruvell Martin, that's for sure. At receiver maybe, in all honesty they both showed the same at receiver. At special teams Ruvell Martins was way better. As a returner Smith has the upper hand. Edited July 27, 2013 by bladiebla
NoSaint Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 Remember Pettine was coaching defense when Smith was a Jet and he may have seen things about Smith there that he inputted into reviews. Pettine is not strictly a defense coach. He also saw how defenses adjusted to Smith being in there. He also coached against him in practice, and knew him as a locker room guy
eball Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 Just not true John. Besides, if these guys drafted EJ, and he's our starter and they still put in Brad Smith to run the wildcat--ever---then thay are crazy. No team has ever used Smith as QB because he's not a good QB. Simple. He has no skills EJ doesn't have. He's a WR with minimal career production. He was a very good kick returner for the the Jets (50 returns in 2010 for 1400 yards and 2 TDs). He's hardly run out any kickoffs for the Bills--15 in 2011, 18 in 2012. So basically, another off-season talking about how versatile and valuable he is to the Bills (someone even said they are better off with him than without). My guess is that Marrone is going to see how his rookie WRs play and Smith may not therefore make the final roster. If his only value at that point is as a KR, his dozen plus returns can easily be replaced. Not this again. I think Kelly the Dog already provided the stats proving the Bills were very effective in 3rd down situations with Smith running the 'Cat. Also, Brad's value on ST goes beyond that of a returner; he might be the best coverage guy on the unit. Brad Smith is a good, versatile football player who provides value at multiple positions and is an asset to this or any other NFL team. The under-utilization of him by a coaching staff no longer in the building should not be held against him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
transient Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 I don't think his production on ST warrants a rooster spot. A hen spot then, maybe?
Drewgetz Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 So much cap space. Bring back Kelsey; we need to waste this money on someone. They clearly aren't interested in spending it on Byrd. Kelsey wasn't cut, he retired. "Ask back" would be more appropriate then "bring back" With that being said I would rather have him then not have him. I was one of the few that liked the guy.
JohnC Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 The only way Smith would be considered for gadget plays is if the QBs fail in craptastic fashion. You don't pull the most important player on the offensive side of the ball out of the game in critical situations unless that player can't get it done. I hope that those days are behind us. If Brad Smith was used in specialty situations such as in short third down situations in a wild cat formation with an 80% conversion rate compared to a more conventional formation with him on the sideline with a 50% conversion rate which formation would you call for? Very often teams go to a tightly packed formation and try to ram the ball in for a first down. If you can bring in a player who increases the rate of success in a specific situation then why be so troubled with the admittedly more unconventional approach?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 He's a very good kick and punt coverage player as well. He's also a great locker room guy and there is value in that as well. Especially on this team. GO BILLS!!! I get all that but I am hoping if he focuses on the WR role he can be great at it. Having a jack of all trades but master of none, is sort of silly when you can carry 53 players for 24 or 25 positions.
JohnC Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 I get all that but I am hoping if he focuses on the WR role he can be great at it. Having a jack of all trades but master of none, is sort of silly when you can carry 53 players for 24 or 25 positions. You just undercut your own position. If a player can play multiple positions and roles then he would be a valuable player on a limited roster. Now that his salary has been reduced his value/talent relationship increases. He certainly isn't an instrumental type player but without a doubt he can be a good bargain and contributing player.
Best Player Available Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Love to see the details of the deal. i will guess maybe it will try to focus B. Smith at WR. A fair base salary with not crazy gauranteed. It most likely will include incentives for catches, yards, touchdowns, etc... My hope is that if B. Smith focus' his time and energy at WR he will be a solid one. The guy is 6'2 215lbs and can run like a deer. He has almost the same type of big play potential that CJ has. It may not pan out and he may not be able to take the step to becoming just a legit WR, but it is worth the shot. Legit receiver? here are his receiving stats after 7 years Brad Smith --- 7years in the league --- 101 receptions --- 949 yards ---5 TD's. Most legit WR's do their damage way before starting year 8. Edited July 28, 2013 by Best Player Available
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