FLFan Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Who's responsible for initiating contract talks? Is it the team or agent? I would expect the team to do this, not the agent. And if there's one thing I know, information leaks whenever a team engages in contract negotiations. That didn't happen in neither Levitre's nor Byrd's case. Another concept lost among many here is you don't begin negotiating when against a wall. Does it make sense to begin negotiations a month before the player hits UFA or more than a year before when they don't have the security of a long term contract? Put yourself in a player's shoes for a moment. I don't see a player like Levitre getting the deal he got in March if Buffalo had begun negotiations early in the 2012 off-season. Finally, among home-grown players who are proven, who has Buffalo signed before the player reached their walk-year? The decision on Levitre or Byrd should have been made before the 2011 season concluded. And if, at that point they decided against retaining the player, they should have have a player in mind to step in or how to address the position in UFA or the draft. Instead, we typically get an unproven young player This seems harsh to some surface level fans, but we're talking the NFL here. It's not building a fantasy football team with keepers. In the case of both Byrd and Levitre the Bills through Nix did say publicly they had initiated a conversation. Also in both cases the players stated publicly they would like to test the free agent market. You make broad assumptions that if only the Bills had been more agressive they could have locked these players up and that is simply not true. You can not negotiate with yourself and it makes no sense to simply set the negotiating floor for the open market when it comes. That is business negotiation 101. As for your last point, what makes you think they did not have a plan? You may not like their plan but they clearly had one. Perhaps they just do not see the same value you do in Levitre - neither do I - and they franchised Byrd to make sure they keep him and drafted two safeties and covereted a CB in case he decides to sit out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I had the sense that Levitre wanted to stay, but it seemed that the Bills were not interested in keeping him, at least at the dollars that Levitre was looking for. I have always thought that Byrd did not want to be here. Could be wrong, maybe it is only about the money the Bills are offering, but Parker will force a divorce. I would have re-signed Levitre and I would press to re-sign Byrd. I do agree that we need to see that Wood can be healthy for a season before re-signing him. He has had two very tough injuries and I do have concerns about this ability to play over the long term. We will see about Spiller. We really should not be losing homegrown talent with the cap space that we have and our poor record with signing free agents. I feel like that last paragraph is a microcosm of what's been the problem in buffalo. Just because the team had cap space, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to make guys like Jairus Byrd TE highest paid in the NFL at their position. It's far better, IMO, to spend wisely than it is to operate within the idea that the cap space is burning a hole in their pocket. That said, I agree that certain extension talks would be prudent at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Please god do not extend Wood till he shows us he can play a full season healthy. Please also wait till CJ can show he can handle this year. Yep. Exactly what they will be doing. Not convinced Wood will be staying as I cannot believe they will go big $$ with him and all the injury damage. On the other hand, not sure anyone else will either. We shall see. This is not fantasy football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 after designating fitz a june 1 and rolling his hit into next year, coupled with us not being able to keep rolling the unspent dollars from last year... if they dont get very close to the cap i will be HIGHLY disappointed. if they arent within 7m of this years cap and let fitzs hit get pushed to 2014 instead of eating it now i will be bordering on livid about it. Are you implying that they are going to use Fitz' counterfeit notes to roll into next years cap figure so they can reach the imposed limit without spendin' a bunch of new money? Preposterous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 As for your last point, what makes you think they did not have a plan? You may not like their plan but they clearly had one. Perhaps they just do not see the same value you do in Levitre - neither do I - and they franchised Byrd to make sure they keep him and drafted two safeties and covereted a CB in case he decides to sit out. What makes me think they don't have a plan? Oh, about the last 8 seasons of winning between 4 and 7 games per season. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's been pointed out many times on this board that the roster hasn't truly been rebuilt, only a piece added when another is deleted. A prime example is the ILB/MLB position. Let Fletcher go, draft Posluszny. Let Posluszny go, draft Sheppard. Trade Sheppard, draft a guy like Alonso. Sure, it costs money to re-sign your own free agents but you then use the draft to fill needs. Not that they've been stellar on draft day either. And here we are years later with another young unproven guy we hope can play. Cost savings? Sure. But no building going on and 4-7 wins later another non-playoff season. Welcome to Buffalo Bills football 2001-2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Are you implying that they are going to use Fitz' counterfeit notes to roll into next years cap figure so they can reach the imposed limit without spendin' a bunch of new money? Preposterous! Forget everything else, good or bad, this offseason it would send a pretty clear message of being either grossly inept at managing the cap or evil geniuses about mismanaging it to limit actual dollars leaving their pockets - either being a major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Are you implying that they are going to use Fitz' counterfeit notes to roll into next years cap figure so they can reach the imposed limit without spendin' a bunch of new money? Preposterous! Now they have dead money from Anderson as well, no? The could have taken the hit this year with little impact imo. And I am curious as to how the new contract with Smith will be distributed. Did they lower their cap hit this season for no reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The truth maybe that they will allow this year to just be a very long preseason. Like they did with Chan's first year. In light of that, they don't really need to spend, they can see where guys are and if they want Byrd/Wood/Chandler back.....I expect they will actually try to make Spiller happy but silly... it is a rebuild again. This is the way this team does rebuilds. I have to say that it does seem different in some other aspects but it is also a corp. and I expect that maximizing profit is an issue to the organization (RW) as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) The truth maybe that they will allow this year to just be a very long preseason. Like they did with Chan's first year. In light of that, they don't really need to spend, they can see where guys are and if they want Byrd/Wood/Chandler back.....I expect they will actually try to make Spiller happy but silly... it is a rebuild again. This is the way this team does rebuilds. I have to say that it does seem different in some other aspects but it is also a corp. and I expect that maximizing profit is an issue to the organization (RW) as well. Most people would concede that this is a rebuilding year. The problem is that from a record stadnpoint there is little difference between the Bills rebuilding and rebuilt team. Over the past decade the Bills have had a losing season in 9 out of its last ten years. In the exception year the record was 9-7. What many cynical posters (including me) are suggesting is that there is a designed business model (method of operation) that is the cause of this perpetual flaccid performances. How can a franchise performing in a system designed for parity be bad for a full generation? How can a franchise have 9 losing seasons out of 10 when by losing teams gain advantages in the draft over winning teams? The Bills for sure are not the most sagacious franchise. But I strongly believe that there is a systemic reason why this franchise can not get out of its unending rut. My view (not accepted by many) is that they have deliberately created a business that is too skewed toward the cash/flow side of the operation at the expense of the football side of the operation. I have watched this frachise perform for a very long time. Longer than most. If the franchise put as much thought and ingenuity into the football side of the operation as they do with the financial side of the operation the Bills would be a more entrtaining and winning team. Edited July 27, 2013 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Wonder what is going to happen next year. See how the season goes then maybe add a FA in a needed spot on top of signing CJ and Wood. Not to mention Byrd getting franchised again or even more likely a trade with another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Personally, I'm keeping my livid in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The truth maybe that they will allow this year to just be a very long preseason. Like they did with Chan's first year. In light of that, they don't really need to spend, they can see where guys are and if they want Byrd/Wood/Chandler back.....I expect they will actually try to make Spiller happy but silly... it is a rebuild again. This is the way this team does rebuilds. I have to say that it does seem different in some other aspects but it is also a corp. and I expect that maximizing profit is an issue to the organization (RW) as well. I think your thought is very plausible. Last year they went all in and threw away big bucks on 2 DE's thinking they were ready to at least get a wildcard. This year is the honeymoon period for Marrone and company. Rookie QB, rookies everywhere. And of course Nix's defensive players he drafted on the cusp of irrelevance. I would expect a new ST coach in 2014 though. It feels too much like a crony hire, and he well sucked on his last NFL stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The truth maybe that they will allow this year to just be a very long preseason. Like they did with Chan's first year. In light of that, they don't really need to spend, they can see where guys are and if they want Byrd/Wood/Chandler back.....I expect they will actually try to make Spiller happy but silly... it is a rebuild again. This is the way this team does rebuilds. I have to say that it does seem different in some other aspects but it is also a corp. and I expect that maximizing profit is an issue to the organization (RW) as well. I'm not so sure. I don't think Maronne can sell a false premise to his team. I don't think he's interested in doing that and I don't think many of his players would buy what you're selling either. They play to win. I'm not so sure about your characterization of RW trying to maximize the profit from the team. In years past, yes. Right now Ralphie isn't buying green bananas. Do you really think he cares if he has $500 million in his bank account and would lose sleep if it isn't $505 million by season's end? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 How can a franchise performing in a system designed for parity be bad for a full generation? How can a franchise have 9 losing seasons out of 10 when by losing teams gain advantages in the draft over winning teams? The Bills for sure are not the most sagacious franchise. But I strongly believe that there is a systemic reason why this franchise can not get out of its unending rut. My view (not accepted by many) is that they have deliberately created a business that is too skewed toward the cash/flow side of the operation at the expense of the football side of the operation. This is a very good question. I agree at times it did appear that money was clearly the number one consideration in the decisions this franchise made. For example, when RW hired coaches, he didn't believe in paying top dollar for that position. He also wanted to enjoy his "toy" so never hired much more than yes men, who would not be unhappy with his meddling. But in a system where it is designed for parity, it has to go beyond the money factor. This franchise has hired the wrong people to make the decisions . Results are poor personell decisions, horrible drafting and awful coaching. Not until capable people are making the football decisions will this franchise have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 If the Bills were serious about building a winner, they would use their $20 M of 2013 cap space to extend Wood and/or Spiller. Roster bonuses only count against the cap in their year they are paid so they could spend up to $20 M in roster bonuses as part of multi-year extensions with no effect on the cap in 2014 and beyond. The Bills had sufficient cap room to sign both Levitre and Byrd. If they elected to use that cap space for other purposes, that would be one thing. But instead they just simply squandered it and got "atta boys" from plenty of people on this Board for doing so. They even moved $1.6 M of Anderson's dead money into 2014 when they could have eaten it all in 2013 and kept more money for next year. Also, i people think that Levitre and Byrd were too expensive, you have to realize that was partly because they did not extend these players before their contracts expired. You can get concessions from the player if you don't make them risk injury in a contract year and increase guarantees. This is the reality of the new NFL. You can really only pick a handful of players that you keep year after year, contract after contract. The ones that tend to be most at risk are the really good players that someone out there is willing to pay as elite players. Levitre and maybe Byrd are recent examples. Stevie almost was but for whatever reason didn't quite cross the chasm. I agree spiller may need to be one of the select few keepers depending on this season, wood would be nice too but if someone is willing to pay big o-line money I see the bills regrettably moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 What many cynical posters (including me) are suggesting is that there is a designed business model (method of operation) that is the cause of this perpetual flaccid performances. Good thing they're not in the adult film industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Good thing they're not in the adult film industry. They got blue pills to correct that problem! If one doesn't work then take two. If that doesn't work then take the whole bottle and shoot multiple scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The new contract comes with rules include minimum percentage of cap they need to spend. Bills have gone over cap in past and tend to be 'conservative' trying to leave money for injuries which occur every year. I very much doubt they will not meet the cap minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Neither Levitre or Byrd are worth the money. Wood is often injured, MAYBE they want to see if he can make it through a full season healthy? CJ will get paid but at what price? He isn't AP and never will be so he won't see AP Type money. Problem is he and his agent will say and think he is the best and that causes issues. Honestly I wouldnt' extend anyone at this point either. Wait until into the season and see how they are progressing. Inintialize contact with the agent and see what #'s they are thinking. If they are stupid #'s like Livitre or Byrd wants, forget it. Every once in a while someone like you come long and gives the Bills Bitcher faction fuel to keep going...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 This is a very good question. I agree at times it did appear that money was clearly the number one consideration in the decisions this franchise made. For example, when RW hired coaches, he didn't believe in paying top dollar for that position. He also wanted to enjoy his "toy" so never hired much more than yes men, who would not be unhappy with his meddling. But in a system where it is designed for parity, it has to go beyond the money factor. This franchise has hired the wrong people to make the decisions . Results are poor personell decisions, horrible drafting and awful coaching. Not until capable people are making the football decisions will this franchise have a chance. This is another falsehood that comes up every now and then. Mr. Wilson has always paid towards the top of the scale for coaches with proven track records. John Rauch, Saban II, Knox, and Levy during the glory years. I know that he would have loved if one of the coaches he took flyers on would have worked out so he could have done the same. But it hasn't. Largely for the other reasons you allude to; lack of capable people making football decisions. And yes, he has had a tendency to put too much faith into people that he trusts like Harvey Johnson, Kay Stephenson, and Levy as a GM. The coaches he paid top dollar to that I mentioned above were anything but yes men. I'm not sure a high visibility coach would come to Buffalo at this stage, regardless of how much he was offered. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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