Milo Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Personally, I think it's a matter of the survivors on the island not having enough cowbell... LOL. They definitely need to explore the space of the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Trying to keeping with the John Locke theme, I think the monster is some sort of outward representation of the experience of fear or loss. At least, that makes sense from Boone's point of view, and I can probably force Locke's confrontation with it to make sense (for starters, how about: he confronted his fear, and he's the only one on the island who's truly at peace). As for the pilot getting chomped...I don't know, but from Boone's experience we now know that that wasn't necessarily real, was it? 204111[/snapback] I never thought of that but if it were the case, who was the one imagining it? There were 3 characters there and they all remember it happening (I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I never thought of that but if it were the case, who was the one imagining it? There were 3 characters there and they all remember it happening (I think). 204425[/snapback] Don't know...I forgot to add before I posted that I hadn't thought it all the way through yet, it's just an idea that came to me. I'd have to re-watch the episode where the pilot gets mauled to really make a stab at reasoning it. But there's no real reason it couldn't represent their collective fear...of being alone, of the lack of authority... ...and now that I think of it, the episode where Jack accepts authority is the same episode they fill in the backstory about his father and he finds the empty coffin. Empty coffin = lack of paternal authority, finding empty coffin = facing said lack and finally accepting it...and Jack suddenly becomes capable of shouldering the responsibility for the entire band of survivors... Or maybe I'm taking the whole John Locke thing too far. Certainly, anything stretched too thin starts to develop serious holes. But I do now believe that at least in part (possibly in great part) the series is a philosophical essay on Locke. I will definitely say that Locke the character is a characterization of Locke the philosopher (which that whole "staring out at the ocean" ties into - but don't ask me just yet to explain why. I can see why, but haven't yet figured out how to verbalize it.) And Locke's interaction with the other characters leads me to believe that the series itself is intended to probe Locke's philosophy to some non-trivial degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 We used TiVo to go back to the scene where Boone and his "sister" are initially scared by the monster. We did it frame by frame and you can see that there is a trap that is sprung by nothing. A giant net trap that is sprung and the four corners pull up into the canopy of the trees. I find it hard to believe that it's all they could do to create a special effect. There has to be something more to the trap being sprung. Is Locke trying to catch something? I know, it was all a dream sequence, but the ABC producer wouldn't make it that obvious -- they would have just done CG to make the monster approach. Go back and look at it if you have TiVO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 We used TiVo to go back to the scene where Boone and his "sister" are initially scared by the monster. We did it frame by frame and you can see that there is a trap that is sprung by nothing. A giant net trap that is sprung and the four corners pull up into the canopy of the trees. I find it hard to believe that it's all they could do to create a special effect. There has to be something more to the trap being sprung. Is Locke trying to catch something? I know, it was all a dream sequence, but the ABC producer wouldn't make it that obvious -- they would have just done CG to make the monster approach. Go back and look at it if you have TiVO. 204471[/snapback] I suppose the trap could've been in Boone's head, just like his sister and the monster. I think it's possible the monster is real but that it's also showing up in people's heads. So the 'real' monster killed the pilot. But in Boone's crazy dream, it kills his sister and he's actually relieved. We don't know what happened when Locke (probably) imagined seeing it but I figure he lived out his dream of fighting it and winning (being the outdoors guy who can do anything). So the island causes fantasies that may or may not include the monster, but there is a real monster that really did kill the pilot and smash some trees down in the first couple episodes. As much as I like the show, I worry that they won't be able to explain everything they've laid out in the first 13 episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 As much as I like the show, I worry that they won't be able to explain everything they've laid out in the first 13 episodes. 204482[/snapback] Actually, I wonder how much of the plot had been developed before the producers realized that this story is going to need to be carried out to completion. It's one thing to have an initial great concept that can be carried through a pilot episode and six (or so) shows, but its a completely different animal to have a cohesive and captivating story from start to finish. I just hope that they will not make it up as they go along because they never imagined that they would be asked to complete it. If we're lucky, it will always be this interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flpunter Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Anybody here seeing some similarities to Stephen King's "The Stand"? Good vs evil. Locke said last night to Boone that they need Siyiid on their "side". I think the show is heading towards two groups. Locke has Boone and Charlie so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Anybody here seeing some similarities to Stephen King's "The Stand"? Good vs evil. Locke said last night to Boone that they need Siyiid on their "side". I think the show is heading towards two groups. Locke has Boone and Charlie so far. 204645[/snapback] They interviewed one of the creators of the show on Aint It Cool News a while back and he mentioned The Stand as one of the inspirations for how the show will develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 We used TiVo to go back to the scene where Boone and his "sister" are initially scared by the monster. We did it frame by frame and you can see that there is a trap that is sprung by nothing. A giant net trap that is sprung and the four corners pull up into the canopy of the trees. I find it hard to believe that it's all they could do to create a special effect. There has to be something more to the trap being sprung. Is Locke trying to catch something? I know, it was all a dream sequence, but the ABC producer wouldn't make it that obvious -- they would have just done CG to make the monster approach. Go back and look at it if you have TiVO. 204471[/snapback] That is exactly what I noticed too. I thought it was a trap too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Actually, I wonder how much of the plot had been developed before the producers realized that this story is going to need to be carried out to completion. It's one thing to have an initial great concept that can be carried through a pilot episode and six (or so) shows, but its a completely different animal to have a cohesive and captivating story from start to finish. I just hope that they will not make it up as they go along because they never imagined that they would be asked to complete it. If we're lucky, it will always be this interesting. 204496[/snapback] You don't have to worry there. They did a complete "Bible" for this show (something that has become a lost art outside of Soap Operas). Meaning that they wrote the entire story arch out (and all the subplots) before shooting a single episode. That is why the show appears to be so well written (well, it IS well written, but this is why it appears to be SO superior to everything else out there right now). So they have the arch to pull everything together. But the question is...will they do that this season or stretch it out into another 2 or 3 seasons? JJ Abrams (the show's creator) initially turned down the offer to do this show because he couldn't figure out how to make it last more than a season. It wasn't until he figured out how to stretch it over multiple seasons (according to one interview he did this by coming to the conclusions that "what if the Island they were lost on wasn't a normal island?") that he agreed to write it...so you have to assume that we won't get all the answers this season. As for the most recent episode, I just watched it (it was a busy week) and had an observation about Locke that may be interesting...(by the way, good work on the Locke theories...the philosophy student in me is proud of you guys!). What if Locke doesn't exsist at all? The only thing he has done on the island really is help other people conquer their fears (Charlie, Jack, Boone and Syiad). His almost mystical abilities (being able to walk again, being baptised by the rain in the pilot episode, etc) lead me to specualte that he died in the crash. Just throwing stuff against the wall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Also, as for the monster I think I have a good handle on what it is. And this isn't entirely original, some have hinted on this notion on this thread. Here goes. The monster is a reflection of yourself. If you look at how the monster has acted and who it has interacted with, it makes sense. The monster was first sighted during the survivors' first night, when everyone was afraid of the island and where they were. This was their biggest fear. Thus the monster was stomping trees in the jungle. After all at that point they didn't know what was IN the jungle and were afraid. Thus the monster materilized as those fears. The next time you see the monster is when they trek to the cockpit. They don't see the monster until the pilot says they were way off course and they aren't looking in the right place. Again, fear sets in and the monster appears. The pilot sticks his head out in fear and gets killed by the monster (because he was afraid of dying, he even said it in the cockpit before he got eaten). Yet the monster doesn't kill Charlie or Jack because Jack embraced his fear and went back for Charlie (when he fell). And the same was true for Kate who counted to five and "let the fear out". The next time we see the monster was with Locke. And while everyone ran, Locke stood his ground and embraced his fear. He looked at the monster with awe and reverence rather than fear and thus he was spared (it is also interesting to note that after that moment Locke truly became mystical). If the monster is a reflection of yourself, then Locke's fearlessness was reflected in the monster at that moment that it stood before him (and he lived to tell the tale). And in the most recent episode, the monster was active EVEN IN A DREAM. This is key because the monster reacted the same way as it has been in reality (at least according to this theory). Boone's biggest fear was losing Shannon. And that was reflected outward and the monster took Shannon from him. Adding further proof that this monster is a reflection of yourself...even your subconscious self. So, if that theory is indeed true (which I am growing more convinced that it is) it raises a number of interesting questions. It also makes me believe we will never see the monster as long as this show is on the air. We may see parts of him, but not the entire monster (kinda like Jaws). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I think flat out, the island is a kind of pergatory. This feeds the loop theory in that people either conquer their demons, or are cursed to keep reliving them (becoming a very personal hell if they can't conquer their demons. Locke has "broken out of the loop" (or broken the lock). People who make their peace, go off to a happy beyond. Locke seems to be staying to help other's break their cycles of suffering (by the way, this is very similar to the buddhist cycle of suffering)http://www.kadampa.org/english/reference/b...ist_beliefs.php After we die our very subtle mind leaves our body and enters the intermediate state, or 'bardo' in Tibetan. In this subtle dream-like state we experience many different visions that arise from the karmic potentials that were activated at the time of our death. These visions may be pleasant or terrifying depending on the karma that ripens. Once these karmic seeds have fully ripened they impel us to take rebirth without choice. It is important to understand that as ordinary samsaric beings we do not choose our rebirth but are reborn solely in accordance with our karma. If good karma ripens we are reborn in a fortunate state, either as a human or a god, but if negative karma ripens we are reborn in a lower state, as an animal, a hungry ghost, or a hell being. ... By practicing the Buddhist path to liberation and enlightenment, however, we can destroy self-grasping, thereby liberating ourself from the cycle of uncontrolled rebirth and attaining a state of perfect peace and freedom. We shall then be in a position to help others to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 You don't have to worry there. They did a complete "Bible" for this show (something that has become a lost art outside of Soap Operas). Meaning that they wrote the entire story arch out (and all the subplots) before shooting a single episode. As an aside -- Veronica Mars is the same way; the cast doesn't even get to see the scripts more than 1 or 2 in advance to keep things under wrap. Excellent show. Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Angel were all done that way as well, and it shows. Sad that most TV isn't planned like that CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 tgreg99 Posted Today, 01:24 AM And in the most recent episode, the monster was active EVEN IN A DREAM. This is key because the monster reacted the same way as it has been in reality (at least according to this theory). Boone's biggest fear was losing Shannon. And that was reflected outward and the monster took Shannon from him. Adding further proof that this monster is a reflection of yourself...even your subconscious self. So, if that theory is indeed true (which I am growing more convinced that it is) it raises a number of interesting questions. It also makes me believe we will never see the monster as long as this show is on the air. We may see parts of him, but not the entire monster (kinda like Jaws). From that theory it sounds a lot like "Forbidden Planet". A monster from the id. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Fezmid Posted Today, 10:51 AM QUOTE(tgreg99 @ Jan 15 2005, 01:08 AM) You don't have to worry there. They did a complete "Bible" for this show (something that has become a lost art outside of Soap Operas). Meaning that they wrote the entire story arch out (and all the subplots) before shooting a single episode. As an aside -- Veronica Mars is the same way; the cast doesn't even get to see the scripts more than 1 or 2 in advance to keep things under wrap. Excellent show. Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Angel were all done that way as well, and it shows. Sad that most TV isn't planned like that CW I have not seen Veronica Mars, mainly because I'm watching too many shows as it is. Your mention of Firefly, Buffy, & Angel brought up another sad reminder that we have a tv season without Joss Whedon. Buffy had run it's course but :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: WB for cancelling Angel. They could have gotten 1 or 2 more seasons out of that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted January 15, 2005 Author Share Posted January 15, 2005 Also, as for the monster I think I have a good handle on what it is. And this isn't entirely original, some have hinted on this notion on this thread. Here goes. The monster is a reflection of yourself. If you look at how the monster has acted and who it has interacted with, it makes sense. The monster was first sighted during the survivors' first night, when everyone was afraid of the island and where they were. This was their biggest fear. Thus the monster was stomping trees in the jungle. After all at that point they didn't know what was IN the jungle and were afraid. Thus the monster materilized as those fears. The next time you see the monster is when they trek to the cockpit. They don't see the monster until the pilot says they were way off course and they aren't looking in the right place. Again, fear sets in and the monster appears. The pilot sticks his head out in fear and gets killed by the monster (because he was afraid of dying, he even said it in the cockpit before he got eaten). Yet the monster doesn't kill Charlie or Jack because Jack embraced his fear and went back for Charlie (when he fell). And the same was true for Kate who counted to five and "let the fear out". The next time we see the monster was with Locke. And while everyone ran, Locke stood his ground and embraced his fear. He looked at the monster with awe and reverence rather than fear and thus he was spared (it is also interesting to note that after that moment Locke truly became mystical). If the monster is a reflection of yourself, then Locke's fearlessness was reflected in the monster at that moment that it stood before him (and he lived to tell the tale). And in the most recent episode, the monster was active EVEN IN A DREAM. This is key because the monster reacted the same way as it has been in reality (at least according to this theory). Boone's biggest fear was losing Shannon. And that was reflected outward and the monster took Shannon from him. Adding further proof that this monster is a reflection of yourself...even your subconscious self. So, if that theory is indeed true (which I am growing more convinced that it is) it raises a number of interesting questions. It also makes me believe we will never see the monster as long as this show is on the air. We may see parts of him, but not the entire monster (kinda like Jaws). 206259[/snapback] Dude...nicely done. Your theory appears pretty solid, and you sure backed up your ideas with some good examples. I'll be looking forward to future episodes and applying it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 You don't have to worry there. They did a complete "Bible" for this show (something that has become a lost art outside of Soap Operas). Meaning that they wrote the entire story arch out (and all the subplots) before shooting a single episode. That is why the show appears to be so well written (well, it IS well written, but this is why it appears to be SO superior to everything else out there right now). So they have the arch to pull everything together. 206257[/snapback] Didn't know that. Good info, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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