Tiberius Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Where does it say "it creates jobs?" Lol, I guess you missed the part about "expanding the labor force." If adding a person to our population increased jobs by 1 or more than 1 job, then your argument might have some merit. However, the working population in this country is about 60% so if you add more people you don't get 1 job for 1 added person, you get about .6. That leaves 4/10's of a person to be supported by someone employed or through government benefits. That and if you add population too quickly, you will drive down the employment to population ratio which by the way is at the lowest rate in about 30 years. So, the radical right wing racist republican oh my god WTF if Trump gets elected stance has real merit. Reducing immigration (legal and illegal) should boost the employment rate among Americans which in turn should increase wages and reduce the cost of entitlements. http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000 Thanks, I appreciate your learned response. But I totally disagree with you conclusion. Immigration and society does not live in a lab experiment. The immigrants are already here and their lack of rights is a barrier to their social mobility. Also, immigrants fuel small business creation which adds many more jobs to the economy. Immigrants also reduce costs of goods which increases consumer spending and increases the personal wealth of those saving the money. Also, making the population younger helps us in the long term with the government accounts for SS and medicare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Lol, I guess you missed the part about "expanding the labor force." So in conclusion, the gatorman economic plan of success goes like this: we bring in millions of people who have no money, which in turn increases the demand for goods because they will want things they can't have because they have no money, which in turn will create jobs to supply things they can't buy because they will have no money until they get paid to make the things that no one will make until they have the money to buy them. You better cue up the old "oh, c'mon, can't you guys tell I was being sarcastic" bit because you're going to need it in 5, 4, 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Lol, I guess you missed the part about "expanding the labor force." Thanks, I appreciate your learned response. But I totally disagree with you conclusion. Immigration and society does not live in a lab experiment. The immigrants are already here and their lack of rights is a barrier to their social mobility. Also, immigrants fuel small business creation which adds many more jobs to the economy. Immigrants also reduce costs of goods which increases consumer spending and increases the personal wealth of those saving the money. Also, making the population younger helps us in the long term with the government accounts for SS and medicare. So your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused by the facts. The numbers I provided are not from a lab experiment, they are the employment and population numbers for our country. Now if you consider that a lab experiment, what real world are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMED: “The United States, once again, finds itself outside the top 10 free economies of the world — tying its all-time low score.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 So your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused by the facts. The numbers I provided are not from a lab experiment, they are the employment and population numbers for our country. Now if you consider that a lab experiment, what real world are you talking about? Like YOU said, there are many, many factors, and you pointed to one. You have pointed to employment to population ratio. Much of that is the aging population. You know, baby boomers. I said immigration makes us younger overall, and hence, increases labor participation. It also helps in a lot of other ways. So in conclusion, the gatorman economic plan of success goes like this: we bring in millions of people who have no money, which in turn increases the demand for goods because they will want things they can't have because they have no money, which in turn will create jobs to supply things they can't buy because they will have no money until they get paid to make the things that no one will make until they have the money to buy them. You better cue up the old "oh, c'mon, can't you guys tell I was being sarcastic" bit because you're going to need it in 5, 4, 3... Can't you even be serious for a second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Lol, I guess you missed the part about "expanding the labor force." No, I saw that. How does expanding the labor force create jobs? Keeping in mind that "labor force" is the number of people eligible to and looking for work, and "jobs" is the work actually available for them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 No, I saw that. How does expanding the labor force create jobs? Keeping in mind that "labor force" is the number of people eligible to and looking for work, and "jobs" is the work actually available for them to do. I've already explained that Thomas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Can't you even be serious for a second? Do you have any data that shows for every immigrant that comes to this country how many jobs are created and what types of jobs are created. I have a hard time believing that for every 1,000 people come across our southern border there are 1,000 jobs created that they are qualified to fill. Edited February 1, 2016 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 No, I saw that. How does expanding the labor force create jobs? Keeping in mind that "labor force" is the number of people eligible to and looking for work, and "jobs" is the work actually available for them to do. What is your argument about immigration and the economy? You think they help or hurt the economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 What is your argument about immigration and the economy? You think they help or hurt the economy? Depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Depends. That's a low blow. He might not even need them all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) What is your argument about immigration and the economy? You think they help or hurt the economy? There is an ideal number of immigrants that we should take in. That number should be adjusted yearly or so based at least in part by economic factors and we should strive to have all such immigrants come here legally. Illegal immigrants have broken the law and should not be rewarded for this in the form of citizenship or a job. The argument that they do the work that Americans won't do is very flimsy. Americans will do the vast majority of the work if the wages for the job appeal to them. Right now we can't employ many Americans that want to work so we should be in a time of low immigration. Edited February 1, 2016 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I've already explained that Thomas.... No, you haven't. You've explained how population growth creates demand for services. That's not a labor force creating jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 No, you haven't. You've explained how population growth creates demand for services. That's not a labor force creating jobs. No, I explained that too There is an ideal number of immigrants that we should take in. That number should be adjusted yearly or so based at least in part by economic factors and we should strive to have all such immigrants come here legally. Illegal immigrants have broken the law and should not be rewarded for this in the form of citizenship or a job. The argument that they do the work that Americans won't do is very flimsy. Americans will do the vast majority of the work if the wages for the job appeal to them. Right now we can't employ many Americans that want to work so we should be in a time of low immigration. Is there an ideal number? It should be adjusted by whom? Shouldn't that be left to the labor market itself? I thought we were talking economics here, not whether they deserve or don't deserve something. I just want to do what's best for the country, not to denigrate people that came here to work. Seems like they have a pretty important and positive economic impact on the country. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy The U.S. Department of Agriculture states that, “about half of the hired workers employed in U.S. crop agriculture were unauthorized, with the overwhelming majority of these workers coming from Mexico.” The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 So if bringing in unlimited amounts of immigrants is good for the economy why do we have millions unemployed? Shouldn't we get them working first and then when the economy is roaring because they are all working then we can talk about opening the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 So if bringing in unlimited amounts of immigrants is good for the economy why do we have millions unemployed? Shouldn't we get them working first and then when the economy is roaring because they are all working then we can talk about opening the border. Just to save us some time. Obfuscation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 So if bringing in unlimited amounts of immigrants is good for the economy why do we have millions unemployed? Shouldn't we get them working first and then when the economy is roaring because they are all working then we can talk about opening the border. Hell, if we have more people in the labor force than we have jobs, then why hasn't the labor force created jobs for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hell, if we have more people in the labor force than we have jobs, then why hasn't the labor force created jobs for them?Republicans and obfuscation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 So if bringing in unlimited amounts of immigrants is good for the economy why do we have millions unemployed? Shouldn't we get them working first and then when the economy is roaring because they are all working then we can talk about opening the border. We have millions of unemployed in order to keep wages down. You'll note that the number one business organization in the US (the chamber of commerce) is always pro-immigration for the same reason. Also, the Fed won't let the economy get "roaring." The Fed will raise interest rates to prevent wages and prices from rising beyond their target level. At some point, higher interest rates cause a slow down, increasing unemployment and restraining wages. Then they'll start the cycle all over again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 No, I explained that too Is there an ideal number? It should be adjusted by whom? Shouldn't that be left to the labor market itself? I thought we were talking economics here, not whether they deserve or don't deserve something. I just want to do what's best for the country, not to denigrate people that came here to work. Seems like they have a pretty important and positive economic impact on the country. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy So if fewer immigrants would cause the cost of food to rise because that industry had to utilize more expensive American labor subject to American employment rules and regulations, would that be good or bad for this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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