The city of Detroit crisis

[Dante]

Yes, it's always the greedy big business fault.

 

Has nothing to do with the crappy fuel-inefficient disposable cars Detroit was pumping out in the 70s-90s while Honda and Toyota were producing a significantly higher quality product.

And US maker union shops making almost $20 an hour more per hour for unskilled workers than Toyota. That wouldn't have anything to do with it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Its not hard to explain why they have so many teams, the City of Detroit may have a dwindling population, but it has a larger surrounding population, including a very large Canadian City right accross the border. Detroit is also home to some businesses that are "too big to fail" in the US economy, and 3/4ths of their franchises are owned by another very large company (Little Cesars). They have what every team in sports needs to survive, large corporate bases to help support them and buy the luxury seating. Buffalo is home to how many large corporations? Geico and who else? Just look at the advertisements at the games. Saleens, Yancys Fancy and Celino and Barnes are the 3 next biggest that come to mind that are league wide sponsors

 

EXACTLY.

 

BFLO has ALWAYS been a worker town. Mainly controlled by corporations in some other far off city. Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, NYC, etc... They have always had a very small home controlling base.

 

BFLO was a good war town...

 

 

 

No mention of the endless greed of the giant unions, huh? More money spent per car on union health benefits than on steel. Big surprise everyone starting buying Hondas and Toyotas.

 

Then slapped "buy local" bumper stickers on them while tooling off to the "farmer's market."

 

Eskimos don't buy refrigerators.

 

And US maker union shops making almost $20 an hour more per hour for unskilled workers than Toyota. That wouldn't have anything to do with it.

 

In Japan, all the workers health is covered...

Edited July 24, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois

[Clippers of Nfl]

Ha there really isn't much difference between the Bills and the Lions is there. Every once in awhile a blind squirrel gets a nut. As of recent it was the Lions turn.

When will we find a nut?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

When will we find a nut?

 

By all estimates: 2026.

 

:-(

[KD in CA]

In Japan, all the workers health is covered...

Yeah, it's 'covered' in Detroit too, at 3 times the cost to the employer.

 

Funny how everyone cries about cost of healthcare while ignoring the fact that US businesses pay the majority of that tab (or all of it for the companies subject to standard union extortion).

 

See, every time the politicians create a new 'disease' (like obesity) and pile another truckload of drugs onto the Medicare bill, that has real world consequences.

Edited July 24, 2013 by KD in CT

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Yeah, it's 'covered' in Detroit too, at 3 times the cost to the employer.

 

Funny how everyone cries about cost of healthcare while ignoring the fact that US businesses pay the majority of that tab.

 

See, every time the politicians create a new 'disease' (like obesity) and pile another truckload of drugs onto the Medicare bill, that has real world consequences.

 

For EVERY worker in Detriot? That is what I meant. The problem is some are getting it totally covered by their employer, some kick in, and some get nothing. How about spreading it all around, like Japan. I am not anti-union. As a federal employee, I kick in 40+% of the premium, the agency covers the rest. @ one time my cost was 300+ bucks every two weeks... That went down this year to 150.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

how in the heck does the city afford to have 4 major sports teams?

 

Big reason: Debt load.

 

A team that draws reasonably well with no debt load can survive. Once debt is added to the equation, things go from realistic to unrealistic in a hurry.

 

That's why so many people are scared for the Bills when Ralph passes. The Bills right now have no debt and draw reasonably well. The new owner of the Bills will be saddled with an extraordinary amount of debt that current revenue streams cannot cover.

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

The Free Trade agreement is what really lead to Detroit's downfall. The city tax base was the Auto industry. Why would GM pay the union worker 22 buck an hour when they can build plants in Mexico and China and have the same parts built for 4 bucks an hour.

[Chef Jim]

spot on. GM was the most profitable company in the world in the early 80's- yet they were still shutting down plants and moving to Mexico. 1960 Detroit had the highest per capita income.It was known as the Paris of the West. And it is heartbreaking what has happened to one of our most beautiful cities

 

!@#$ ups never break my heart.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

Big reason: Debt load.

 

A team that draws reasonably well with no debt load can survive. Once debt is added to the equation, things go from realistic to unrealistic in a hurry.

 

That's why so many people are scared for the Bills when Ralph passes. The Bills right now have no debt and draw reasonably well. The new owner of the Bills will be saddled with an extraordinary amount of debt that current revenue streams cannot cover.

 

Then let the team go public and stay the course. I know it against the rules outside of Green Bay... BUT places like BFLO and Green Bay are perfect for a public team.

[Pete]

!@#$ ups never break my heart.

Well there is 2.2 million human beings that live in metropolitan Detroit and I feel empathy for them.

 

 

 

 

$18 billion

Detroit’s estimated debt obligations.

 

$11.9 billion

City’s unsecured obligations to lenders and retirees.

 

$6.4 billion

City’s obligations backed by enterprise revenues (Revenue Bonds).

 

38 cents

Of every tax dollar that the city collects goes to service legacy debt and other obligations rather than providing services for the city’s residents and businesses.

 

$115.5 million

Detroit’s negative cash flows in fiscal year 2012.

 

8%

Interest accrued on Detroit’s deferred payment of pension fund contributions.

 

Over 100,000

Estimated number of Detroit creditors.

 

22%

Reduction in city employees since fiscal year 2010.

 

1.85 million

Detroit’s population in 1952, its highest point.

 

62%

Decline in Detroit’s population from 1950 to 2012.

 

150,000

Number of manufacturing jobs Detroit lost between 1947 and 1963 as smaller auto makers disappeared and Big Three auto makers move operations to suburbs and out of state.

 

47%

Detroit’s share of US auto sales in 2008.

 

80%

Of Detroit’s manufacturing was lost between 1972 and 2007.

 

78%

Of Detroit’s retail establishments were lost between 1972 and 2007.

 

735,104

Number of jobs in Detroit for residents and non residents in 1970.

 

346,545

Number of jobs in Detroit for residents and non residents in 2012.

 

9.4%

Jobless rate in Detroit as of June 2013.

 

30%

Decline in Detroit’s municipal income tax receipts since 2002.

 

36%

Of Detroit’s population lives below the poverty level.

 

54%

Of Detroiters own a home.

 

16%

Of Michigan’s population lives below poverty level.

 

28%

Decline in Detroit’s receipts from utility user’s tax over the last decade.

 

$1.6 billion

Decline in city’s assessed property values over the last five years.

 

$134.9 million

Property tax revenues for city’s 2013 fiscal year.

 

139 square miles

Detroit’s city footprint.

 

40%

Of city’s street lights do not work.

 

78,000

Number of abandoned structures in Detroit, representing 20% of the city’s housing stock.

 

210

City parks were closed during fiscal year 2009, reducing its total by 66%.

Source: Alexander Rozens, Bloomberg Brief

 

And some of the good people of Detroit are stepping up-

 

http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/2013/07/22/a-gang-of-volunteer-lawn-mowers-are-helping-keep-the-bankrupt-detroits-parks-open/

[Chef Jim]

Well there is 2.2 million human beings that live in metropolitan Detroit and I feel empathy for them.

http://www.cbc.ca/as...its-parks-open/

 

Are they required to live there? No empathy whatsoever.

[Clippers of Nfl]

For EVERY worker in Detriot? That is what I meant. The problem is some are getting it totally covered by their employer, some kick in, and some get nothing. How about spreading it all around, like Japan. I am not anti-union. As a federal employee, I kick in 40+% of the premium, the agency covers the rest. @ one time my cost was 300+ bucks every two weeks... That went down this year to 150.

I pay 150 every 2 weeks too.

 

I'm worth more dead than alive.

[Pete]

 

Are they required to live there? No empathy whatsoever.

Well just how exactly do you expect to sell your house?

 

BTW a couple other random facts about Detroit-

 

It takes an hour for 911 to respond.

Most ambulances have over 250,000 miles on them

[Chef Jim]

Well just how exactly do you expect to sell your house?

 

BTW a couple other random facts about Detroit-

 

It takes an hour for 911 to respond.

Most ambulances have over 250,000 miles on them

 

Why would you want to even try to sell something that is worth 1/10th or less what you owe on it? Walk away.....just walk away. California became great by the hard work that the people who left their shitholes during the great depression put in. You wallow in your **** I have no empathy for you.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

I pay 150 every 2 weeks too.

 

I'm worth more dead than alive.

 

Humana creeped up past 300 bucks every two weeks! That was just my appox. 40%... Figure out what the agency was kicking in and Humana was rolling in the dough... Even w/my kid breaking his arm back in 2005! Oh my... Now they have the gaul to send me crap in the mail... Wanting me back! LoL... Are you kidding me!

 

LoL... Same here... Wife would be set if I croaked. I just turned 45, so my term life insurance @ work is starting to climb... She's probably trying to find a way to bump me off!

[Chef Jim]

Humana creeped up past 300 bucks every two weeks! That was just my appox. 40%... Figure out what the agency was kicking in and Humana was rolling in the dough... Even w/my kid breaking his arm back in 2005! Oh my... Now they have the gaul to send me crap in the mail... Wanting me back! LoL... Are you kidding me!

 

LoL... Same here... Wife would be set if I croaked. I just turned 45, so my term life insurance @ work is starting to climb... She's probably trying to find a way to bump me off!

 

What if you get sick and can't work and have to quit your job before you "croak". How set would she be then?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

What if you get sick and can't work and have to quit your job before you "croak". How set would she be then?

 

She works. Have other insurance... We can live on her income alone and vice-a-versa. I work mostly for benefits and going right into savings.

 

I have over a year sick leave (& accumulating) on the books. I carry the maximum vacation, 6 weeks, each year over on the books.

[Chef Jim]

She works. Have other insurance... We can live on her income alone and vice-a-versa. I work mostly for benefits and going right into savings.

 

I have over a year sick leave (& accumulating) on the books. I carry the maximum vacation, 6 weeks, each year over on the books.

 

So you die and she's going to go on working as if nothing happened? And if you're dead how much of your income will be going directly into saving? What if you're sick for 18 months and can't work? How much work insurance will you have at that point? What medical expenses will she be left with? Never ever count on your insurance at work.

[Bufcomments]

No mention of the endless greed of the giant unions, huh? More money spent per car on union health benefits than on steel. Big surprise everyone starting buying Hondas and Toyotas.

True the unions were a tad greedy but in 50's- 80's there was plenty of money to spread around.

 

If it wasnt for the unions the management would have overworked their employees. That's why people voted for the union in the first place. This coming from a former UAW member .Reason why those Toyotas were selling was because they were a better made auto.