billsfan_34 Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 Ok here is something that has baffled me for years. From 1950 until now Detroit has gone from 2 million people to 700 thousand people. The city is completely broke, infrastructure and services in total dissaray and much of the population is well below the poverty level. My serious question is, how in the heck does the city afford to have 4 major sports teams?
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 Apparently, the population of the outlying areas of Detroit is sufficient to support the sports franchises. I wonder if this would be different if the Redwings, Lions, Tigers, and (to a lesser degree lately) the Pistons weren't perennial playoff/championship contenders?
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 Ok here is something that has baffled me for years. From 1950 until now Detroit has gone from 2 million people to 700 thousand people. The city is completely broke, infrastructure and services in total dissaray and much of the population is well below the poverty level. My serious question is, how in the heck does the city afford to have 4 major sports teams? It's actually not the city's call to determine whether these franchises are well-run, and there are some very wealthy surrounding areas that support the teams as well. These teams are run like good businesses and they get rewarded with fan support. It's not just about the immediate urban surroundings. Tell me, would Buffalo be able to support the Bills without the populations of surrounding communities like Clarence, Amherst, Orchard Park, to name a few?
Big C Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 Apparently, the population of the outlying areas of Detroit is sufficient to support the sports franchises. I wonder if this would be different if the Redwings, Lions, Tigers, and (to a lesser degree lately) the Pistons weren't perennial playoff/championship contenders? Are the Lions perennial contenders? The city proper is losing money and residents, but many of the folks leaving town are heading to the 'burbs and nearby areas. Deroit still has the 11th largest TV market and the Detroit urban area approaches 4 million residents. http://www.businessinsider.com/can-pro-sports-survive-detroits-population-crash-2011-5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Detroit
billsfan_34 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) It's actually not the city's call to determine whether these franchises are well-run, and there are some very wealthy surrounding areas that support the teams as well. These teams are run like good businesses and they get rewarded with fan support. It's not just about the immediate urban surroundings. Tell me, would Buffalo be able to support the Bills without the populations of surrounding communities like Clarence, Amherst, Orchard Park, to name a few? great point and I know there are some nice burbs etc....but the area as a whole has been hit very hard. Im wondering how much tax money also helps to fund the teams as well and may be a small portion of why the place is so broke. There is 82,000 vacant buildings in Detroit and I could go on and on w other statistics. I guess my point it what comes first...pro teams or infrastructure of an area. I just smell alot of stink and lack of priorities I guess. I am sure the local populis of Detroit has more insight than we do. Edited July 20, 2013 by billsfan_34
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 Are the Lions perennial contenders? The city proper is losing money and residents, but many of the folks leaving town are heading to the 'burbs and nearby areas. Deroit still has the 11th largest TV market and the Detroit urban area approaches 4 million residents. http://www.businessinsider.com/can-pro-sports-survive-detroits-population-crash-2011-5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Detroit I would say that the Lions, especially in recent years, are perennial contenders. At least good enough to sell out Ford Field every Sunday.
Big C Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 I would say that the Lions, especially in recent years, are perennial contenders. At least good enough to sell out Ford Field every Sunday. I think they have their best squad in years, but they've struggled putting it all together. Last year was a major regression - at least the fans still got to see Megatron's historic season. I can see them bouncing back again, Stafford has an extra weapon in Reggie Bush and their pass rush should be great, but they don't have a secondary and they play in a tough division.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 I think they have their best squad in years, but they've struggled putting it all together. Last year was a major regression - at least the fans still got to see Megatron's historic season. I can see them bouncing back again, Stafford has an extra weapon in Reggie Bush and their pass rush should be great, but they don't have a secondary and they play in a tough division. Well put. Megaton himself is worth the price of admission IMO.
section122 Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) I would say that the Lions, especially in recent years, are perennial contenders. At least good enough to sell out Ford Field every Sunday. I can't look at attendance figures bc I'm on my phone and only have a couple of minutes but I strongly disagree with your first statement. Matthew stafford is 1-23 as a starter against teams with a winning record. They're drought was just as long as the bills before their one and done a couple of years ago. They are the only nfls team to go "unfeated" and they finished 4-12 last year. How does that make them perennial contenders? Edit: they haven't won a playoff game since 1991! Before 2011 as I said the last appearance was 1999. The last time they finished at least 2nd in their division besides 2011 was 1995! The last division crown was 1993! Edited July 20, 2013 by section122
PromoTheRobot Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 (edited) Ok here is something that has baffled me for years. From 1950 until now Detroit has gone from 2 million people to 700 thousand people. The city is completely broke, infrastructure and services in total dissaray and much of the population is well below the poverty level. My serious question is, how in the heck does the city afford to have 4 major sports teams? Metro Detroit plus Windsor is still 5.7 million people. The 1.3 million who left Detroit didn't travel far. Plus being home to all the major US auto companies, that all buy ads on NFL games. I can't look at attendance figures bc I'm on my phone and only have a couple of minutes but I strongly disagree with your first statement. Matthew stafford is 1-23 as a starter against teams with a winning record. They're drought was just as long as the bills before their one and done a couple of years ago. They are the only nfls team to go "unfeated" and they finished 4-12 last year. How does that make them perennial contenders? Edit: they haven't won a playoff game since 1991! Before 2011 as I said the last appearance was 1999. The last time they finished at least 2nd in their division besides 2011 was 1995! The last division crown was 1993! Well that explains a lot. The Fords are who Ralph emulates. Seeing how the Lions do, well, Ralph is doing a good job following their lead. PTR Edited July 20, 2013 by PromoTheRobot
billsfan_34 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Posted July 20, 2013 Metro Detroit plus Windsor is still 5.7 million people. The 1.3 million who left Detroit didn't travel far. Plus being home to all the major US auto companies, that all buy ads on NFL games. Well that explains a lot. The Fords are who Ralph emulates. Seeing how the Lions do, well, Ralph is doing a good job following their lead. PTR Ha there really isn't much difference between the Bills and the Lions is there. Every once in awhile a blind squirrel gets a nut. As of recent it was the Lions turn.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) great point and I know there are some nice burbs etc....but the area as a whole has been hit very hard. Im wondering how much tax money also helps to fund the teams as well and may be a small portion of why the place is so broke. There is 82,000 vacant buildings in Detroit and I could go on and on w other statistics. I guess my point it what comes first...pro teams or infrastructure of an area. I just smell alot of stink and lack of priorities I guess. I am sure the local populis of Detroit has more insight than we do. I don't know the lease situation of any of those teams but they may have minimal local funding. Without knowing the specifics of each lease we really don't know the expense. The teams that I worked for had deals at the county and state level -not city. The thing that is easier to comprehend is the revenue side. There are direct revenue sources (ie jock taxes, tourism, etc..) and then indirect positives (ie publicity, job creation, etc...). I don't know the situation of those teams but there are certainly reasons that a city (even in financial trouble) would want those teams. Edited July 21, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 I can't look at attendance figures bc I'm on my phone and only have a couple of minutes but I strongly disagree with your first statement. Matthew stafford is 1-23 as a starter against teams with a winning record. They're drought was just as long as the bills before their one and done a couple of years ago. They are the only nfls team to go "unfeated" and they finished 4-12 last year. How does that make them perennial contenders? Edit: they haven't won a playoff game since 1991! Before 2011 as I said the last appearance was 1999. The last time they finished at least 2nd in their division besides 2011 was 1995! The last division crown was 1993! Saying perennial contenders was inaccurate, but they have made the playoffs as recently as 2011. From my frame of reference (being a Bills fan) that is a considered a contender. With a legit starting QB (IMO), the best WR in the game, and an underachieving defense, I think they are deservant of the support they receive.
BillsWatch Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Detroit just recently filed for bankruptcy. Not sure if before or after thread started but I was surprised it was recent.
Bufcomments Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 The Free Trade agreement is what really lead to Detroit's downfall. The city tax base was the Auto industry. Why would GM pay the union worker 22 buck an hour when they can build plants in Mexico and China and have the same parts built for 4 bucks an hour. The greed of big business is gonna wipe out the middle class. I could talk about it for days but I wont. Detroit is a perfect example of whats wrong in America. What a shame.
/dev/null Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 The Free Trade agreement is what really lead to Detroit's downfall. The city tax base was the Auto industry. Why would GM pay the union worker 22 buck an hour when they can build plants in Mexico and China and have the same parts built for 4 bucks an hour. The greed of big business is gonna wipe out the middle class. I could talk about it for days but I wont. Detroit is a perfect example of whats wrong in America. What a shame. Yes, it's always the greedy big business fault. Has nothing to do with the crappy fuel-inefficient disposable cars Detroit was pumping out in the 70s-90s while Honda and Toyota were producing a significantly higher quality product.
Bufcomments Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Yes, it's always the greedy big business fault. Has nothing to do with the crappy fuel-inefficient disposable cars Detroit was pumping out in the 70s-90s while Honda and Toyota were producing a significantly higher quality product. point taken your right, Detroit was asleep at the wheel for a LONG time , pun intended.
apuszczalowski Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Its not hard to explain why they have so many teams, the City of Detroit may have a dwindling population, but it has a larger surrounding population, including a very large Canadian City right accross the border. Detroit is also home to some businesses that are "too big to fail" in the US economy, and 3/4ths of their franchises are owned by another very large company (Little Cesars). They have what every team in sports needs to survive, large corporate bases to help support them and buy the luxury seating. Buffalo is home to how many large corporations? Geico and who else? Just look at the advertisements at the games. Saleens, Yancys Fancy and Celino and Barnes are the 3 next biggest that come to mind that are league wide sponsors
Pete Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 The Free Trade agreement is what really lead to Detroit's downfall. The city tax base was the Auto industry. Why would GM pay the union worker 22 buck an hour when they can build plants in Mexico and China and have the same parts built for 4 bucks an hour. The greed of big business is gonna wipe out the middle class. I could talk about it for days but I wont. Detroit is a perfect example of whats wrong in America. What a shame. spot on. GM was the most profitable company in the world in the early 80's- yet they were still shutting down plants and moving to Mexico. 1960 Detroit had the highest per capita income.It was known as the Paris of the West. And it is heartbreaking what has happened to one of our most beautiful cities
KD in CA Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 The Free Trade agreement is what really lead to Detroit's downfall. The city tax base was the Auto industry. Why would GM pay the union worker 22 buck an hour when they can build plants in Mexico and China and have the same parts built for 4 bucks an hour. The greed of big business is gonna wipe out the middle class. I could talk about it for days but I wont. Detroit is a perfect example of whats wrong in America. What a shame. No mention of the endless greed of the giant unions, huh? More money spent per car on union health benefits than on steel. Big surprise everyone starting buying Hondas and Toyotas.
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