Meatloaf Sandwich Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) The same source (Rumors and Rants) that broke this story also says that "95%" of the QB counselors at this camp go out and drink at night. Posters here have to abandon this crazy and fake "underage drinking" indignation. As for "draftability", I remember not too long ago, there was a kid who stole a computer from another student, cheated academically, went to three different schools in 3 years and whose father was selling him to the highest bidder (and there were plenty)? What was that guy's name? What ever became of him after the "NFL GMs" ruled him undraftable because of all of this? Anybody know? If Johnny was anything even close to the specimen Newton is maybe then you wouldn't have to worry about it. Also I don't remember any news on Drinking problems. Newtons problems were simple theft much easier to over come then alcoholism. I bet of those 95% of the counselors that are drinkers everyone of them went and fulfilled their responsibilities the next morning... Edited July 21, 2013 by BuffaloFood
K-9 Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 Sally Jenkins with her keen perspective. As always. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/johnny-manziel-may-be-immature-but-his-critics-are-childish/2013/07/19/04fa0a28-f077-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html GO BILLS!!!
Buffalo Bob Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 a college kid drinking?!?! I am shocked! Yes because all college kids have the exact same life. Why don't people understand that?
Mr. WEO Posted July 21, 2013 Posted July 21, 2013 If Johnny was anything even close to the specimen Newton is maybe then you wouldn't have to worry about it. Also I don't remember any news on Drinking problems. Newtons problems were simple theft much easier to over come then alcoholism. I bet of those 95% of the counselors that are drinkers everyone of them went and fulfilled their responsibilities the next morning... It took 1 season (his only season) for JM to reset SEC record books. Your claim the kid is an alcoholic is a fabrication you have invented to make an unconvincing point. Shame. Sally Jenkins with her keen perspective. As always. http://www.washingto...a20d_story.html GO BILLS!!! Everyone should read this before posting again on this topic. Every point well made and what some of the less hysterical of us have been saying for days.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 But on the few occasions when I had a chance to engage with a group of folks who I hoped would become my professional peers, I kept it straight. Job fairs, volunteer opportunities, meet an HR rep, and so on: I stayed sober for a few extra hours, even on the weekend. I did this even when I was 18 and 19. I don't see his drinking as a big deal. I see the inability to identify a time when he should abstain for 36 hours as a bigger deal. Well said. Even though WEO has accused me of ranting, I've made two basic points: I've suggested that Johnny might have a drinking problem. I've suggested that those pretending that "this is nothing" are misrepresenting the incident. To re-state (bolded for emphasis… not because I want to rant but because no one has dared answer these points yet): For some reason a lot of people posting here are having a hard time distinguishing between a 20 year old BMOC going out drinking on any given night and the same person doing it before a big event (being a celebrity instructor at The Manning Passing Academy is a big deal for all involved) and after being kicked out from said big event. The guy does something to draw significant negative attention to himself and his response to that is to go out drinking? I was an irresponsible partyer too but Johnny's actions are a little bit more significant than just going out for a little fun. He couldn't take ONE night off? Being a voice of reason, I also said this: This episode in Johnny Football's life can be overblown just as it can be blown off and downplayed as if nothing happened. The appropriate response is somewhere between those two extremes. Rather than repeat the same old "it's no big deal," how about someone take a poke at these questions? This was pretty much the only intelligent response from those defending Johnny: I'll bite. 1) He possibly has a drinking problem. Your point is well-enough argued. He may grow out of it, or he may need actual help. 2) There is definitely not much reason for us to care about it. 3) There may be a reason for a team looking at drafting him to care about it. There may not. There have been worse people making worse mistakes who did better for their NFL franchises (on the field, at least). 4) There certainly is plenty for the Manning camp to care about, because it reflects upon them and the atmosphere they are trying to provide these kids. 5) It sucks for these kids to get this kind of lousy treatment from one of the headline participants 6) At the same time, the Manning camp isn't exactly for poverty-stricken charity cases -- most of these kids are being groomed to become the next generation of college and potentially NFL QBs. They will do fine. 7) Manziel may want to re-evaluate his conduct as it will seriously affect his future earning power. But he could use a role model to kick him in the azz, too, and he won't get that. College football royalty usually gets the white-glove treatment and I doubt his team will do much to stop him if he keeps winning football games. 8) He and Aaron Hernandez are in different universes of humanity and conduct, and that is pretty much the only way that their names should appear in the same sentence. As for the "ranting allegations" made against me, I didn't rant unless your sole criteria for a rant is the length of the writing. Regardless of length, I never used all caps, profanity or emotionally-charged language and only used bolded type when repeating questions which people were afraid to answer. I was beating the drum on two points which were repeatedly ignored or rebutted with "he's only 20 years old" argument which avoids the counters: 1) Is Johnny's situation the same as any other 20 year-old's? 2) Is Johnny's response to being kicked out of the Manning camp (going out drinking) a red flag? Again, to the Johnny apologists, why won't any of you (except for RuntheDamnBall) simply address these questions? And for the record (it's sad, isn't it?) the sum of my opinions about Johnny are that: 1)"The kid needs to straighten his act out." 2) "For his own sake the kid needs to straighten his act out." 3) "He possibly has a drinking problem" Someone who would describe my posts as rants doesn't know what a rant is, nor would they recognize the rant's close cousins, the harangue and the diatribe. Archie nailed him.... Sounds like it wasnt simply oversleeping after having one too many as much as totally blowing the entire thing off to party. http://deadspin.com/...ght-c-852280565 Sally Jenkins with her keen perspective. As always. http://www.washingto...a20d_story.html Clearly Sally wasn't aware that Johnny reportedly never made it back to the room on Friday night so his (and by extension her) excuse that AJ McCarron didn't wake him up was… what exactly? Sally implies that AJ McCarron's failure to wake Johnny was possibly a passive-aggressive move, describing AJ's "dimpled, Shirley Temple demeanor" when in fact, Johnny was possibly not even in the room. Sally, like some of you, also seem to think that there are people who are unable to read accounts of events and draw their own conclusions. She like some people here seem to think that people's opinions are the product of the media's interpretation of events as if people don't really think for themselves. Of course the argument can also be made that those who think that Johnny's escapades are no big deal are being brainwashed by Sally and the media members who feel as she does. So people who attribute the response of people like myself as a result of being manipulated by the media can't have it both ways because this argument also means that people with the opposite opinion are also being manipulated by the media. Follow? Instead of that straw man, why don't we actually assume that all of us have the ability to read the facts and draw our own opinions from them, shall we? Can we agree that all of our opinions here are our own? As I said earlier (it's sad isn't it?), this episode in Johnny Football's life can be overblown just as it can be blown off and downplayed as if nothing happened. The appropriate response is somewhere between those two extremes. If no one has anything pertinent or intelligent to actually move this discussion forward, I'll take the liberty as the topic starter to close the thread.
K-9 Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Well said. Even though WEO has accused me of ranting, I've made two basic points: I've suggested that Johnny might have a drinking problem. I've suggested that those pretending that "this is nothing" are misrepresenting the incident. To re-state (bolded for emphasis… not because I want to rant but because no one has dared answer these points yet): Being a voice of reason, I also said this: This was pretty much the only intelligent response from those defending Johnny: As for the "ranting allegations" made against me, I didn't rant unless your sole criteria for a rant is the length of the writing. Regardless of length, I never used all caps, profanity or emotionally-charged language and only used bolded type when repeating questions which people were afraid to answer. I was beating the drum on two points which were repeatedly ignored or rebutted with "he's only 20 years old" argument which avoids the counters: 1) Is Johnny's situation the same as any other 20 year-old's? 2) Is Johnny's response to being kicked out of the Manning camp (going out drinking) a red flag? Again, to the Johnny apologists, why won't any of you (except for RuntheDamnBall) simply address these questions? And for the record (it's sad, isn't it?) the sum of my opinions about Johnny are that: 1)"The kid needs to straighten his act out." 2) "For his own sake the kid needs to straighten his act out." 3) "He possibly has a drinking problem" Someone who would describe my posts as rants doesn't know what a rant is, nor would they recognize the rant's close cousins, the harangue and the diatribe. Clearly Sally wasn't aware that Johnny reportedly never made it back to the room on Friday night so his (and by extension her) excuse that AJ McCarron didn't wake him up was… what exactly? Sally implies that AJ McCarron's failure to wake Johnny was possibly a passive-aggressive move, describing AJ's "dimpled, Shirley Temple demeanor" when in fact, Johnny was possibly not even in the room. Sally, like some of you, also seem to think that there are people who are unable to read accounts of events and draw their own conclusions. She like some people here seem to think that people's opinions are the product of the media's interpretation of events as if people don't really think for themselves. Of course the argument can also be made that those who think that Johnny's escapades are no big deal are being brainwashed by Sally and the media members who feel as she does. So people who attribute the response of people like myself as a result of being manipulated by the media can't have it both ways because this argument also means that people with the opposite opinion are also being manipulated by the media. Follow? Instead of that straw man, why don't we actually assume that all of us have the ability to read the facts and draw our own opinions from them, shall we? Can we agree that all of our opinions here are our own? As I said earlier (it's sad isn't it?), this episode in Johnny Football's life can be overblown just as it can be blown off and downplayed as if nothing happened. The appropriate response is somewhere between those two extremes. If no one has anything pertinent or intelligent to actually move this discussion forward, I'll take the liberty as the topic starter to close the thread. Not sure where you are coming from here as I haven't bothered to read the thread. I don't get the impression that Sally Jenkins dismisses Manziel's behavior at all. Sorry I took the time to post a link to a writer that I consider has a pretty good point of view in the world of sports. Didn't mean to suggest you aren't capable of forming your own opinion on things. But if sharing other points of view makes you feel condescended to, I can't help that. GO BILLS!!!
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 Not sure where you are coming from here as I haven't bothered to read the thread. I don't get the impression that Sally Jenkins dismisses Manziel's behavior at all. Sorry I took the time to post a link to a writer that I consider has a pretty good point of view in the world of sports. Didn't mean to suggest you aren't capable of forming your own opinion on things. But if sharing other points of view makes you feel condescended to, I can't help that. I'm glad you posted to the article as I hadn't read it yet. Obviously there's no need for you to apologize but I don't think you need to feel as though the link was unwelcomed and I'm sorry if I came across that way. Yes I thought Sally too sympathetic to Johnny. Check out some of these quotes from the piece: This following quote supports the idea that the Johnny story is sensationalism and is "false indignation," an idea which has been a continuing statement in this topic: Most of the critics ripping the Heisman Trophy winner for his offseason behavior are users and touts trying to build their names by invoking his. Their so-called concern over Manziel’s comportment and how it might affect his future draft status is nothing more than ginned-up controversy for paid-subscriber consumption based on his star power. This following quote parrots a statement made by roughly a dozen posters in this thread which is the idea that Johnny gets a free pass because he's just 20 years old (I also think it's missing the point that his age is only one component of a larger picture): “At the end of the day, I’m not going for the Miss America pageant,” he said. You could interpret that as either supremely confident or too dumb to learn. The point is, we can’t know which one he is yet. He’s 20. And you know what else? It’s summer. Here's another quote in which Sally suggests that Johnny's critics are treating Johnny as if he's committed some sort of felony. In truth, only one poster in this topic suggested somewhat draconian measures in dealing with Johnny's misstep. Virtually everyone else here who is critical of Johnny is basically saying that he's gotta straighten out: In response, his critics have acted as if he’s a step away from being handcuffed for felonies. Radio jock Paul Finebaum believes he’s “trending for a train wreck.” He also accuses Manziel of violating some kind of solemn oath with the Mannings, who are “football’s royalty,” by oversleeping at their camp. This was one of the only quotes in the piece that I thought hit a mark which is that regardless of what his apologists say, Johnny "gypped a bunch of kids" and his obligations to the camp. The Mannings’ football camp was a volunteer summer camp, but it was a commitment he made because it was a big-name event. He got the brand of attention he deserved when he gypped a bunch of kids and didn’t fulfill his responsibilities there. Now we will see what he does with that lesson and whether he has learned anything after pleading guilty last Monday to a misdemeanor charge resulting from an off-campus scuffle in June 2012. What wasn't mentioned in Sally's piece is that if a person is kicked out of a camp for drinking and he goes out drinking that night to commemorate that event, that might be a red flag. The piece also doesn't mention that there were about a dozen other "college kids" who were able to wake up in time to fulfill their obligations to the Mannings and to the campers. The piece also didn't mention that Johnny likely never returned to his room on Friday night but I give Sally a pass on that as that disclosure came out after her piece ran. So I thought Sally was too sympathetic and apologistic for Johnny. IMO a more fair and balanced piece would have been a bit more critical.
Pete Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Yes because all college kids have the exact same life. Why don't people understand that? And he probably is having premarital sex too! Shocking behavior for a college kid! He sounds like another Hernandez
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 And he probably is having premarital sex too! Shocking behavior for a college kid! He sounds like another Hernandez Sigh... Not shocking he is drinking. Shocking he is drinking and missing his responsibilities b.c of it. That is where the problem is.
Beerball Posted July 22, 2013 Posted July 22, 2013 Yes because all college kids have the exact same life. Why don't people understand that? You want he should enter a monastery? Why do you worry about him at all? Why the concern? Why the indignation? Sigh... Not shocking he is drinking. Shocking he is drinking and missing his responsibilities b.c of it. That is where the problem is. You are shocked that a 20 year old missed an assignment because he was too hung over? For some reason I hear background music when I read this thread...Mine eyes have seen the glory...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2013 Author Posted July 22, 2013 Well the discussion is getting nowhere I see. Again no one is saying that Johnny's committed a cardinal sin but apparently the fact that he's a college kid absolves him of everything including: Underage drinking before going to work. Not coming back to his room that night and then blaming his roommate for oversleeping. Lying to Archie Manning about his whereabouts. Blowing off his obligations to the camp. And after getting kicked out of the camp, going out drinking that very night. Apparently the majority of people here think that there's no problem because he's just a kid.
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