Why I am not optimistic about this team

[JohnC]

So can we agree that the proof will be in the way they handle Wood and Spiller? If you're right, the Bills will be aggressive in retaining them (assuming they value the center position and the Amazingly Dynamic Playmaking Scorer position). If I'm right, the Bills will allow themselves to be outbid and will move on from one or both of them.

 

I'm very confident that the Bills will be aggressive in retaining both players. I have suspicions that the Levitre decision was influenced by the impending Wood negotiations. There isn't anyone on this board who is more of a supporter of Spiller than I am. On this issue NYC Bill finds me very irrittating when I respond to his Spiller lamentations. In my view he is not only the best player on the team but also one of the most dynamic players in the league. He is a scintillating player on a very boring team.

 

With respect to your position of being outbid and then flagellating the organization I'm not in your camp. You have to stay true to your beliefs and not be afraid to allow a talent to walk if the terms are beyond reason. The Steelers, Pats and Ravens should be the model organizations to follow. They have a financial structure and they are not afraid to act to uphold that structure. I'm not talking about being religiously rigid on this salary issue but simply stayinng true to your organizational ethos.

 

I'm confident that if both Wood and Spiller want to be with the team they will both be signed. If it turns out that they don't want to be here and ask for terms that will force their departure then so be it.

Edited July 22, 2013 by JohnC

[Cash]

I'm very confident that the Bills will be aggressive in retaining both players. I have suspicions that the Levitre decision was influenced by the impending Wood negotiations. There isn't anyone on this board who is more of a supporter of Spiller than I am. On this issue NYC Bill finds me very irrittating when I respond to his Spiller lamentations. In my view he is not only the best player on the team but also one of the most dynamic players in the league. He is a scintillating player on a very boring team.

 

With respect to your position of being outbid and then flagellating the organization I'm not in your camp. You have to stay true to your beliefs and not be afraid to allow a talent to walk if the terms are beyond reason. The Steelers, Pats and Ravens should be the model organizations to follow. They have a financial structure and they are not afraid to act to uphold that structure. I'm not talking about being religiously rigid on this salary issue but simply stayinng true to your organizational ethos.

 

I'm confident that if both Wood and Spiller want to be with the team they will both be signed. If it turns out that they don't want to be here and ask for terms that will force their departure then so be it.

 

Serious question: Isn't there a huge flaw with this logic, in that the teams you mentioned are all wildly successful, whereas the Bills are not? I think you're right that if [any player] "wants" to be with the Bills they will be signed. (Stevie Johnson is a great recent example -- he signed a nice extension that was probably lower than what he could've gotten from the highest bidder. He wanted to come back, and did -- but at a price that the Bills were comfortable with.) I tend to agree with the notion in this thread that the Bills (Overdorf?) come up with a number for a given player's worth and rarely back off it. And that number tends to be lower than what the player's price would be on the open market.

 

But is it reasonable or feasible to expect players to "want to be with the team" when the team hasn't come close to a successful season in that player's career? When a player is willing to accept a fair but below-market deal (e.g., Stevie), that's great, and the Bills have shown some ability to pounce on those situations. But one of their mistakes seems to be that they expect all their good players to have that attitude, when only a fraction actually do. It's fine to stick to your financial guns when 80% of your good players are happy enough to take less than top dollar, but what happens when only 50% of your good players feel that way? What if it's only 20%? The Bills have been bad for a long time. What's the plan to turn that around? You say that if Wood/Spiller force their departure, so be it. Okay, in that scenario, the Bills have lost a ton of talent with little to no compensation. And they were talent-poor to begin with. So how do they fix things?

 

Maybe the plan is to have 3 straight legendary drafts, where you acquire 10 total Pro Bowlers and 5 more quality starters, and most of those players also love living/playing in WNY. At the end of those 3 years, you've probably got a Super Bowl contender, and while you can't keep all of that talent, you can keep enough at team-friendly terms to keep contending, and then you plug in guys going forward a la the Steelers. I don't see this as remotely possible or even plausible.

 

Maybe the plan is to hope you're right about EJ Manuel, and count on his ability as a franchise QB to elevate the team to the playoffs or Super Bowl contention. Then you can re-sign enough guys on your terms who want to be part of a winner, while replacing the rest with draft picks or cheaper veterans who want to play for a winner. This is a lot more plausible, and I hope it happens. But I can't say that it's likely. And I'd be more comfortable with the outlook of the team if it seemed like its future didn't solely hinge on their rookie QB panning out. If EJ is just mediocre, I find it hard to believe the Bills will have/retain enough supporting talent to be a real playoff team. Fitz was mediocre for a couple years, and we still didn't sniff the playoffs.

[chris heff]

 

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/07/20/the-boss/

 

Jerruh wants the NFL in L.A. NOW!! There are no expansion plans so it would have to be an existing franchise. Rams are most vulnerable right now, not to mention the most historically connected team to L.A. But don't sleep on the Bills just yet.

 

PTR

I think that the fact that the league and Jones both want a team there now makes it even less likely to be the Bills. Ralph or no Ralph the Bills are commited for the next seven years. However I still believe those two stadium deals in LA are tenuous at best.

[thewildrabbit]

Serious question: Isn't there a huge flaw with this logic, in that the teams you mentioned are all wildly successful, whereas the Bills are not? I think you're right that if [any player] "wants" to be with the Bills they will be signed. (Stevie Johnson is a great recent example -- he signed a nice extension that was probably lower than what he could've gotten from the highest bidder. He wanted to come back, and did -- but at a price that the Bills were comfortable with.) I tend to agree with the notion in this thread that the Bills (Overdorf?) come up with a number for a given player's worth and rarely back off it. And that number tends to be lower than what the player's price would be on the open market.

 

But is it reasonable or feasible to expect players to "want to be with the team" when the team hasn't come close to a successful season in that player's career? When a player is willing to accept a fair but below-market deal (e.g., Stevie), that's great, and the Bills have shown some ability to pounce on those situations. But one of their mistakes seems to be that they expect all their good players to have that attitude, when only a fraction actually do. It's fine to stick to your financial guns when 80% of your good players are happy enough to take less than top dollar, but what happens when only 50% of your good players feel that way? What if it's only 20%? The Bills have been bad for a long time. What's the plan to turn that around? You say that if Wood/Spiller force their departure, so be it. Okay, in that scenario, the Bills have lost a ton of talent with little to no compensation. And they were talent-poor to begin with. So how do they fix things?

 

Maybe the plan is to have 3 straight legendary drafts, where you acquire 10 total Pro Bowlers and 5 more quality starters, and most of those players also love living/playing in WNY. At the end of those 3 years, you've probably got a Super Bowl contender, and while you can't keep all of that talent, you can keep enough at team-friendly terms to keep contending, and then you plug in guys going forward a la the Steelers. I don't see this as remotely possible or even plausible.

 

Maybe the plan is to hope you're right about EJ Manuel, and count on his ability as a franchise QB to elevate the team to the playoffs or Super Bowl contention. Then you can re-sign enough guys on your terms who want to be part of a winner, while replacing the rest with draft picks or cheaper veterans who want to play for a winner. This is a lot more plausible, and I hope it happens. But I can't say that it's likely. And I'd be more comfortable with the outlook of the team if it seemed like its future didn't solely hinge on their rookie QB panning out. If EJ is just mediocre, I find it hard to believe the Bills will have/retain enough supporting talent to be a real playoff team. Fitz was mediocre for a couple years, and we still didn't sniff the playoffs.

The really tragic thing is even if that scenario did happen I would expect this team to re sign very few of those 10 pro bowlers, if any. I look at the Bills over the last 13 years and it just seems so lame the way this org does things, and continues to do things. I suppose a lot has to do with the lack of a top GM since John Butler departed for San Diego in 2000. Is rookie GM Doug Whaley going to be the next Polian, Butler for Buffalo or another Buddy Nix? As usual, I remain highly skeptical as the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

 

 

In my view it all starts with the GM / HC, find top talent at those positions and it becomes easy to find top player talent. Top coaches don't need an entire team of superstars, just a top QB, and the rest a bunch of blue collar players will get it done.

[Luxy312]

The really tragic thing is even if that scenario did happen I would expect this team to re sign very few of those 10 pro bowlers, if any. I look at the Bills over the last 13 years and it just seems so lame the way this org does things, and continues to do things. I suppose a lot has to do with the lack of a top GM since John Butler departed for San Diego in 2000. Is rookie GM Doug Whaley going to be the next Polian, Butler for Buffalo or another Buddy Nix? As usual, I remain highly skeptical as the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

 

 

In my view it all starts with the GM / HC, find top talent at those positions and it becomes easy to find top player talent. Top coaches don't need an entire team of superstars, just a top QB, and the rest a bunch of blue collar players will get it done.

 

The single biggest flaw in your argument is the new CBA. Right now, the Bills are REQUIRED to spend 95% of the cap figure. Next year that grows to 98% of the cap figure. Looking at the past 10 years, they had the luxury of spending or not spending whatever they wanted. They used the "cash to cap" formula to justify not re-signing players. They can't do that any more. Any shortfall in spending is a penalty that they will pay to the NFL, so it makes ZERO sense not to spend what is required or even a little more. The logic of the Bills spending to maintain profitability is egregiously flawed for this reason. It's what they did in the past, but not what they can or have to do do right now.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Luxy312

[Coach Tuesday]

Serious question: Isn't there a huge flaw with this logic, in that the teams you mentioned are all wildly successful, whereas the Bills are not? I think you're right that if [any player] "wants" to be with the Bills they will be signed. (Stevie Johnson is a great recent example -- he signed a nice extension that was probably lower than what he could've gotten from the highest bidder. He wanted to come back, and did -- but at a price that the Bills were comfortable with.) I tend to agree with the notion in this thread that the Bills (Overdorf?) come up with a number for a given player's worth and rarely back off it. And that number tends to be lower than what the player's price would be on the open market.

 

But is it reasonable or feasible to expect players to "want to be with the team" when the team hasn't come close to a successful season in that player's career? When a player is willing to accept a fair but below-market deal (e.g., Stevie), that's great, and the Bills have shown some ability to pounce on those situations. But one of their mistakes seems to be that they expect all their good players to have that attitude, when only a fraction actually do. It's fine to stick to your financial guns when 80% of your good players are happy enough to take less than top dollar, but what happens when only 50% of your good players feel that way? What if it's only 20%? The Bills have been bad for a long time. What's the plan to turn that around? You say that if Wood/Spiller force their departure, so be it. Okay, in that scenario, the Bills have lost a ton of talent with little to no compensation. And they were talent-poor to begin with. So how do they fix things?

 

Maybe the plan is to have 3 straight legendary drafts, where you acquire 10 total Pro Bowlers and 5 more quality starters, and most of those players also love living/playing in WNY. At the end of those 3 years, you've probably got a Super Bowl contender, and while you can't keep all of that talent, you can keep enough at team-friendly terms to keep contending, and then you plug in guys going forward a la the Steelers. I don't see this as remotely possible or even plausible.

 

Maybe the plan is to hope you're right about EJ Manuel, and count on his ability as a franchise QB to elevate the team to the playoffs or Super Bowl contention. Then you can re-sign enough guys on your terms who want to be part of a winner, while replacing the rest with draft picks or cheaper veterans who want to play for a winner. This is a lot more plausible, and I hope it happens. But I can't say that it's likely. And I'd be more comfortable with the outlook of the team if it seemed like its future didn't solely hinge on their rookie QB panning out. If EJ is just mediocre, I find it hard to believe the Bills will have/retain enough supporting talent to be a real playoff team. Fitz was mediocre for a couple years, and we still didn't sniff the playoffs.

 

This sums up my views, in a much more eloquent way than I could hope to do...

[Best Player Available]

I'm very confident that the Bills will be aggressive in retaining both players. I have suspicions that the Levitre decision was influenced by the impending Wood negotiations. There isn't anyone on this board who is more of a supporter of Spiller than I am.

 

I'm confident that if both Wood and Spiller want to be with the team they will both be signed. If it turns out that they don't want to be here and ask for terms that will force their departure then so be it.

Your thought on Levitre not being signed because of "impending Wood negotiations" is hard to justify if at all.

Wood is a great team player, that is often injured no matter how they have occurred. He is not a perennial pro bowl player. A valuable center, but he is what he is. I just don't see the logic in thinking the Bills will back up the brinks truck to overpay for the guy. Fan favorites rarely if ever determine what OBD will do. I'd love Wood to stay a Bill for his entire career but the reasoning of letting a LG walk to pay him makes no sense. They let levitre walk because he wanted to, Wood has nothing to do with it. I also saw somewhere Wood is willing to redo his contract now. If true why isn't it happening?

The Bills still until proven otherwise are NFL bottom feeders. And, theoretically have NO cap issues other than the burdensome contract of a DE. They have a rookie QB who if he succeeds is signed for virtually peanuts for years. Of the 4 good draft picks Levitre, Wood, Byrd and Spiller. I'd guess they will be lucky to keep one. The inability of the team to sign Byrd long term is worrisome, and don't buy for a minute the thinking here that the DC might think he may not fit in his scheme. Byrd is a valuable Bill and people simply counting his int's simply don't get it. I'd say his ability to strip the ball is one of the best in the league. A turnover is a turnover.

After watching the FO throw cash at back up QB's, Kelsay, Cornell green, etc. then play hard ball with a true home grown talent is mind boggling. Let's hope this trend doesn't continue for 13 more years.

[BillsVet]

The single biggest flaw in your argument is the new CBA. Right now, the Bills are REQUIRED to spend 95% of the cap figure. Next year that grows to 98% of the cap figure. Looking at the past 10 years, they had the luxury of spending or not spending whatever they wanted. They used the "cash to cap" formula to justify not re-signing players. They can't do that any more. Any shortfall in spending is a penalty that they will pay to the NFL, so it makes ZERO sense not to spend what is required or even a little more. The logic of the Bills spending to maintain profitability is egregiously flawed for this reason. It's what they did in the past, but not what they can or have to do do right now.

 

So who is the next Chris Kelsay they can re-sign in order to meet the CBA requirements?

 

IMO, the Bills are adept at signing people who don't pose as much threat during negotiations. Simply look at the players they've re-signed going back to 2010: the aforementioned Kelsay, Kyle Williams, Kraig Urbik, Rian Lindell, Drayton Florence, George Wilson, Fred Jackson, Fitzpatrick, and Stevie. None would be considered elite talent, but certainly filled roles or are decent players.

 

It also says a lot that the team has, in the past 6 years, signed big UFA contracts (Dockery in '07, Mario '12) and allows their own developed top talent out the door. From a planning perspective, it's not a good message to send guys you draft who develop.

[JohnC]

Serious question: Isn't there a huge flaw with this logic, in that the teams you mentioned are all wildly successful, whereas the Bills are not? I think you're right that if [any player] "wants" to be with the Bills they will be signed. (Stevie Johnson is a great recent example -- he signed a nice extension that was probably lower than what he could've gotten from the highest bidder. He wanted to come back, and did -- but at a price that the Bills were comfortable with.) I tend to agree with the notion in this thread that the Bills (Overdorf?) come up with a number for a given player's worth and rarely back off it. And that number tends to be lower than what the player's price would be on the open market.

 

Stevie Johnson didn't give the Bills much of a home town discount, if at all. He got a fair deal from the Bills that met his needs and the team's needs. Johnson is in my view a mid-tier or slightly lower number one caliber of receiver. He is far from being an elite receiver. Re-signing with the Bills was a smart move on his part because he was able to be the primary receiver for the Bills which would not have been the case with the majority of other teams.

 

But is it reasonable or feasible to expect players to "want to be with the team" when the team hasn't come close to a successful season in that player's career? When a player is willing to accept a fair but below-market deal (e.g., Stevie), that's great, and the Bills have shown some ability to pounce on those situations. But one of their mistakes seems to be that they expect all their good players to have that attitude, when only a fraction actually do. It's fine to stick to your financial guns when 80% of your good players are happy enough to take less than top dollar, but what happens when only 50% of your good players feel that way? What if it's only 20%? The Bills have been bad for a long time. What's the plan to turn that around? You say that if Wood/Spiller force their departure, so be it. Okay, in that scenario, the Bills have lost a ton of talent with little to no compensation. And they were talent-poor to begin with. So how do they fix things?

 

There is no magical solution to the Bills status. You change the trajectory of the franchise by having a quality front office and coachng staff. It all starts with the frachise's ability to draft well. I'm sure you will agree that the Bills have been one of the worst drafting team for a very long time. The greatest determining factor is drafting well for a few consecutive years and finding a legitimate frachise qb. It doesn't matter what you do if you don't have a credible qb your team will fail. You can have a very flawed team and still compete if you have a good qb. Kolb-Fitz-TJackson-Thigpen type qbs will keep you on the path to irrelevancy. I'm hoping that Manuel turns out to be the answer. But if he doesn't then you have to aggressively continue in your search for a good qb.

 

Maybe the plan is to have 3 straight legendary drafts, where you acquire 10 total Pro Bowlers and 5 more quality starters, and most of those players also love living/playing in WNY. At the end of those 3 years, you've probably got a Super Bowl contender, and while you can't keep all of that talent, you can keep enough at team-friendly terms to keep contending, and then you plug in guys going forward a la the Steelers. I don't see this as remotely possible or even plausible.

 

Maybe the plan is to hope you're right about EJ Manuel, and count on his ability as a franchise QB to elevate the team to the playoffs or Super Bowl contention. Then you can re-sign enough guys on your terms who want to be part of a winner, while replacing the rest with draft picks or cheaper veterans who want to play for a winner. This is a lot more plausible, and I hope it happens. But I can't say that it's likely. And I'd be more comfortable with the outlook of the team if it seemed like its future didn't solely hinge on their rookie QB panning out. If EJ is just mediocre, I find it hard to believe the Bills will have/retain enough supporting talent to be a real playoff team. Fitz was mediocre for a couple years, and we still didn't sniff the playoffs.

 

You answered your own question regarding becoming a competitive team. Teams that win draft well. They also do well in the mid-tier free agent market. That is where the value is. This franchise for a very long time has had a hollow organizatiion from the front office to the coaching staff. I'm hoping that under Whaley and his coaching staff the operation will be functioning at a higher level and more coherent manner. There is no quick fix from the prior generational ineptitude.

[eball]

So who is the next Chris Kelsay they can re-sign in order to meet the CBA requirements?

 

IMO, the Bills are adept at signing people who don't pose as much threat during negotiations. Simply look at the players they've re-signed going back to 2010: the aforementioned Kelsay, Kyle Williams, Kraig Urbik, Rian Lindell, Drayton Florence, George Wilson, Fred Jackson, Fitzpatrick, and Stevie. None would be considered elite talent, but certainly filled roles or are decent players.

 

It also says a lot that the team has, in the past 6 years, signed big UFA contracts (Dockery in '07, Mario '12) and allows their own developed top talent out the door. From a planning perspective, it's not a good message to send guys you draft who develop.

 

Kelsay, Kyle, and Stevie are all players the Bills drafted and developed. Jackson wasn't drafted but the Bills developed him. They just re-signed McKelvin. They tagged Byrd so he couldn't walk, even though they're not in agreement on the next contract yet.

 

Since Buddy took over as GM the Bills have let exactly how many of their own "developed" draftees walk? Two that I can think of -- Poz and Levitre. Both got ridiculous contracts and took advantage of the market.

 

Nice of you to bring up a 2007 free agent signing to "prove" your point, by the way. That wasn't a reach.

[JohnC]

Your thought on Levitre not being signed because of "impending Wood negotiations" is hard to justify if at all.

Wood is a great team player, that is often injured no matter how they have occurred. He is not a perennial pro bowl player. A valuable center, but he is what he is. I just don't see the logic in thinking the Bills will back up the brinks truck to overpay for the guy. Fan favorites rarely if ever determine what OBD will do. I'd love Wood to stay a Bill for his entire career but the reasoning of letting a LG walk to pay him makes no sense. They let levitre walk because he wanted to, Wood has nothing to do with it. I also saw somewhere Wood is willing to redo his contract now. If true why isn't it happening?

The Bills still until proven otherwise are NFL bottom feeders. And, theoretically have NO cap issues other than the burdensome contract of a DE. They have a rookie QB who if he succeeds is signed for virtually peanuts for years. Of the 4 good draft picks Levitre, Wood, Byrd and Spiller. I'd guess they will be lucky to keep one. The inability of the team to sign Byrd long term is worrisome, and don't buy for a minute the thinking here that the DC might think he may not fit in his scheme. Byrd is a valuable Bill and people simply counting his int's simply don't get it. I'd say his ability to strip the ball is one of the best in the league. A turnover is a turnover.

After watching the FO throw cash at back up QB's, Kelsay, Cornell green, etc. then play hard ball with a true home grown talent is mind boggling. Let's hope this trend doesn't continue for 13 more years.

 

You don't have to convince me on Byrd's talents because I have that view already.

 

With respect to the futility of throwing cash at mediocre talents such as Kelsay, Green, Fitzs etc. I certainly agree that the contract foolishness of the prior regimes has hindered the team. I'm hoping that under Whaley there will be a better evaluation of talent relative to contracts. All the players you mentioned are gone from the scene.

 

I didn't say that the reason that this front office didn't come to an agreement with Levitre was because of the Wood impending contract. I did say that it could have been a factor. There is nothing unusal about distributing a certain portion of your cap $$$ to different positions on the field. It's not unusal if you sign a CB at a very premium price you then balance it out with a lower level contract with the corner on the other side. It's not unusal for teams to pay a premium $$$ for a LT and then balance it out with a lower valued contract on the right side. There is nothing wrong or peculiar about that approach in spreading out the cap money to the various positions.

 

If you believe that I have been a staunch defender of ths bumbling franchise you are very mistaken. I have been as harsh a critic as anyone of this franchise's institutional irrationality. However, what I see now is a glimmer of hope that this new regime is more sensible and astute than the fools who have been associated with this Ralph Wilson clown operation. It's going to take time to undo what has already been to this very diseased franchise. So far I think they are doing a good job. Just because historically this franchise has acted weirdly doesn't mean that everything done now has to be viewed with the jaundiced eyes of the past.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

The only thing giving me doubts are how the offense will move the ball with E.J. We know that every defense will stack the line to stop C.J. IF E. J. can make his throws,we will make a wild card .I finally feel the Defense will show up.In a good way. Lets hope E.J. will playup to last years young guns. Lets Go Buffalooo.

[JohnC]

 

 

It also says a lot that the team has, in the past 6 years, signed big UFA contracts (Dockery in '07, Mario '12) and allows their own developed top talent out the door. From a planning perspective, it's not a good message to send guys you draft who develop.

 

With the exception of Levitre which player or players that have been released this offseason bother you? The Byrd situation is not completely resolved but at least he is a tendered player under the control of the team. Since the departure of the old guard regime,Nix/Gailey, most of the the transactions have been sound and understandable. What player additions this offseason do you find troublesome? The additions haven't been big name splashes but they have been good value pickups.

Criticizing the prior regime's personnel decisions are very easy to do. They deserved to be criticized for their bungling. But at this early stage of the new staff involvement with the team most of the decisions have been reasonable.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

With the exception of Levitre which player or players that have been released this offseason bother you? The Byrd situation is not completely resolved but at least he is a tendered player under the control of the team. Since the departure of the old guard regime,Nix/Gailey, most of the the transactions have been sound and understandable. What player additions this offseason do you find troublesome? The additions haven't been big name splashes but they have been good value pickups.

Criticizing the prior regime's personnel decisions are very easy to do. They deserved to be criticized for their bungling. But at this early stage of the new staff involvement with the team most of the decisions have been reasonable.

 

In addition to letting Levitre walk and (IMO) totally bungling the Byrd situation, was not a fan of letting go of Reinhardt and Nelson for nothing. Two decent players on a roster lacking depth. I also thought they should've been more aggressive in free agency and missed some opportunities to improve a talent-depleted roster.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Coach Tuesday

[uncle flap]

In addition to letting Levitre walk and (IMO) totally bungling the Byrd situation, was not a fan of letting go of Reinhardt and Nelson for nothing. Two decent players on a roster lacking depth. I also thought they should've been more aggressive in free agency and missed some opportunities to improve a talent-depleted roster.

 

I think they should've kept Reinhardt, but I don't see how Nelson fits in to the new offense (at least how it's been described thus far).

 

I liked Nelson, but anyone can catch a 6 yard curl and be tackled immediately. He wasn't bad, but didn't really excel in anything besides finding a soft spot short of the first down and getting like zero YAC.

 

How exactly did the Bills bungle the Byrd situation? Should they have just rolled over and paid him $10.25 a year with $25 mil guaranteed?

 

They did go after a few name FAs. With the benefit of hindsight, who do you think they should've signed knowing how much it would've cost?

 

Can we stop assuming that the Bills can just write a blank check to everyone? Or that every player will take a discount if the FO just asked a little more nicely?

[BillsVet]

With the exception of Levitre which player or players that have been released this offseason bother you? The Byrd situation is not completely resolved but at least he is a tendered player under the control of the team. Since the departure of the old guard regime,Nix/Gailey, most of the the transactions have been sound and understandable. What player additions this offseason do you find troublesome? The additions haven't been big name splashes but they have been good value pickups.

Criticizing the prior regime's personnel decisions are very easy to do. They deserved to be criticized for their bungling. But at this early stage of the new staff involvement with the team most of the decisions have been reasonable.

 

Value pickups are nice, but they aren't winning games. If you want to fill your roster with Kraig Urbik's and Scott Chandlers, well fine. But until this team can prove they can keep their elite talent, it's all symbolism over substance. Elite talent wins games and it costs money. Apparently that price to retain your own talent is too high for the Bills.

 

Rarely in the post-Donahoe era has this team had an All-Pro caliber player they developed come up for a contract extension. Yet, in the two instances it occurred, there was significant acrimony between the team and player. Some will say it's Eugene Parker, whatever. I still see a franchise where non-football people still have more input on personnel moves than they should. Regardless of who the GM is, this style of leadership continues to hang over the franchise like a cloud. After all, Brandon learned at the foot of RW.

[3rdand12]

it is a nearly wholly new regime.

 

I think that the collective perspective might be.. we are going to build a team . Not rebuild a team.

Expect more player transitions out next year as they continue the process. Youth will rule as a majority as the up and coming players are more better than they were 4 years ago coming out of colleges.

I just dont see players in general sticking with teams as long as they did in even the recent past. The rookie pay rate will be more made use of then ever. and player turnover will increase. And of course the qb will get the lions share on the teams that are winning .

The Byrd experiment shows some of that as the Levitre experience surely did emphasize budget over home team mentality. on both sides.

rookie contract for 4 or so years and then what ?

[JohnC]

In addition to letting Levitre walk and (IMO) totally bungling the Byrd situation, was not a fan of letting go of Reinhardt and Nelson for nothing. Two decent players on a roster lacking depth. I also thought they should've been more aggressive in free agency and missed some opportunities to improve a talent-depleted roster.

 

Nelson was an undrafted player for a reason. He is a receiver who has good hands but has little speed and ability to gain yardage after the catch. He is an inconsequential receiver for a team that wants to go with faster and quicker receivers. Rehinhardt is vagabound backup lineman. Another inconsequential player that can easily be replaced.

 

As you noted this roster has to be reworked in order to become a competitive team. Make no mistake about it this is a rebuilding team that has to add a boatload of players before it can get close to being a playoff team. The regimes prior to Whaley assuming the GM position very much bungled their jobs. In my view this is a 5 to 7 win team. What will determine success or failure for this upcoming season is not how many games they win; it will be determined by how Manuel plays. If he demonstrates that he can be a franchise qb then the season is a success. If he doesn't then back to the drawing board.

 

Value pickups are nice, but they aren't winning games. If you want to fill your roster with Kraig Urbik's and Scott Chandlers, well fine. But until this team can prove they can keep their elite talent, it's all symbolism over substance. Elite talent wins games and it costs money. Apparently that price to retain your own talent is too high for the Bills.

 

Rarely in the post-Donahoe era has this team had an All-Pro caliber player they developed come up for a contract extension. Yet, in the two instances it occurred, there was significant acrimony between the team and player. Some will say it's Eugene Parker, whatever. I still see a franchise where non-football people still have more input on personnel moves than they should. Regardless of who the GM is, this style of leadership continues to hang over the franchise like a cloud. After all, Brandon learned at the foot of RW.

 

Are you aware that under the new CBA all teams have to spend nearly the same amount of money? Some of the cheesey financial manipulations that this flawed organizaton pulled off in the past are not now allowed. If you continue to look in the rear-view mirror while driving you are going to crash because you are not looking at what is in front of you.

Edited July 23, 2013 by JohnC

[eball]

 

Value pickups are nice, but they aren't winning games. If you want to fill your roster with Kraig Urbik's and Scott Chandlers, well fine. But until this team can prove they can keep their elite talent, it's all symbolism over substance. Elite talent wins games and it costs money. Apparently that price to retain your own talent is too high for the Bills.

 

Rarely in the post-Donahoe era has this team had an All-Pro caliber player they developed come up for a contract extension. Yet, in the two instances it occurred, there was significant acrimony between the team and player. Some will say it's Eugene Parker, whatever. I still see a franchise where non-football people still have more input on personnel moves than they should. Regardless of who the GM is, this style of leadership continues to hang over the franchise like a cloud. After all, Brandon learned at the foot of RW.

 

Which elite talent the Bills drafted have they failed to retain in the last three+ years? The LG who is an average run blocker? The MLB who hasn't played in a winning team?

 

 

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[ganesh]

The only way Pro Bowl safeties make that kind of jack is if they have crazy-ass hair.

I am sure if Byrd can get the same charisma as Troy, he can definitely make the big bucks.