Would You Rather Have Mario Or Byrd?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Ah yes LeBeau. I keep wishing the Bills had some how kept him here. I know he wanted to return to Pitt. But gosh he is a genius.

I like Zimmer, but really like Nolan with the falcons more. Nolan did more with less then i think anyone did last year. the Falcons D has very few play makers on it. Heck i would say the Bills have way more. Funny how a great QB can make almost any D player expendable?

 

These are the guys with the big reputations, along with the aforementioned Wade Phillips.

 

Also Dom Capers belongs in the conversation.

 

There are some really good less-heralded DCs as well.

[K-9]

Okay . You mean like M. Andersen who has done nothing at all for the Bils and little before that

i kid.

I understand your point

But you maybe do not mine. Thats on me. I ramble, etc etcetc etc.

Byrd was a MUCH better safety last year than Williams was a rush end.

although Mario did do some very nice containment and kept plays inside stayed disciplined to his role very well. Sometimes he actually chased the ball carrier if the play was away from his side

And i have given the Defense a bit of a pass all around after last years debacle if only to make myself feel better

 

One thing he does bring is respect.

Even though Willams couldn't get it done the first game of the year with what appeared to be an easy overmatch , i will bet the farm that plays were called for chipping him double teaming and going away from "his " side of the field .

 

I am not reflecting on the position i am speaking of the quality of play last year. I dont recall each game vivdly but i sure as hell was watching Mario.

Also No Saint. you dont need to prove me wrong.

It's just my opinion brother.

As i said i dont care for the player M. Williams . and i didnt start out biased besides the koolaid i keep in the fridge.

 

And lastly and more importantly. I expect a whole hell of a lot better play from Mario Williams this year in Mike defense.

 

But i was really hoping i could expect Byrd to do the same.

Both key players for some serious success in my thinking .

sorry i carry on but love my bills, brother

 

again K-9 i am just speaking about the individual players not the position.

That comment was a bit for fun .

But isnt the most important player the last line of defense?

That what the free safety does mostly.

I know you know this and its a weak argument but just for fun.

 

for me its byrd vs williams and how they played last year.

Thats not what the OP asked and i have started a sidebar i guess.

My apologies to all for that.

It is a team sport of course.

 

That's completely backwards. The first line of defense is the most important. If teams consistently reach your second and third levels, you've got major problems, regardless who's playing deep.

 

And I think this particular sidebar is fun. No apology necessary on my end.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Tcali]

Byrd is the better player. DE is the more important position....uhmmmmmmmm close call.

[KeisterHollow]

Mario.

 

A great pass rusher who can pressure the QB can make safeties look better

 

CBF

If I had to rationalize Buffalo's reluctance to sign Byrd to a big money contract, I'd do so by saying they'd like to see him perform in Pettine's defense first. But, I also think they'd like to see Aaron Williams play, and Duke Williams, and some of the others - and IF it came to paying for Byrd and losing out on, say, Wood / Spiller / or some future FA we might bring in to make an impact, it might make SOME sense to want to wait and see what else we have in our other safeties. After all, you can usually only field 2 at a time. If those other guys pan out well, there might be some sense in bringing in help at a weaker position (guard, CB, LB...). That is in light of the above quote - a good pass rush can help the secondary. Finally, IF Byrd were only asking for, say, 6 million a year, I think the deal would be done by now. He's probably asking for 8 to 9 million a year, so in light of the potential we have with the other safeties, I'll hold off judgment on this situation and see how it pans out.

Edited July 13, 2013 by KeisterHollow

[3rdand12]

That's completely backwards. The first line of defense is the most important. If teams consistently reach your second and third levels, you've got major problems, regardless who's playing deep.

 

And I think this particular sidebar is fun. No apology necessary on my end.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Thats the current thinking isnt it ?

So lets us pretend that we are at war. Football is an amusing variation as is chess etc.

The Whole point of the defense is to prevent is to protect the goal line and beyond. or lets say The Capital of our Bills country.

We need our strengths on the front lines , the grunts (not sure ). they need to be relentless . Thats why our army rotates divisions in .

To keep the troops fresh for the attack. And defense the run and the underneath stuff.

But when the opposing troops gain yardage and threaten the capital the best division of the Army with his Captain ( byrdmeister ) decide how to defend best the goal line.

The capital must not be breached.

That 's what a free safety like Byrd CAN do.

Like Reed can do like Troy can do . notice i speak about steelers and ravens specifically.

They captain the last line.

while all the front line guys run about playing the generals playcall. The secondary has all they can do to protect the sacred ground.

But of course you are correct. You sure do have problems when they reach the secondary or are beyond ten yards or so . and dagummit thats when we depend mightily on guys like Byrd and Searcy and Gilmore .

 

I realize my thinking is less than conventional. Of course its not nearly as simple as that, but my point is that regardless of pay (which by the way have less to do with comparisons between positional value and more to do with supply and demand ) we can revisit this if we have to. )

I think you guys are under rating our free safety position.

thank for hearing me out andthanks for the post.

Edited July 13, 2013 by 3rdand12

[3rdand12]

If I had to rationalize Buffalo's reluctance to sign Byrd to a big money contract, I'd do so by saying they'd like to see him perform in Pettine's defense first. But, I also think they'd like to see Aaron Williams play, and Duke Williams, and some of the others - and IF it came to paying for Byrd and losing out on, say, Wood / Spiller / or some future FA we might bring in to make an impact, it might make SOME sense to want to wait and see what else we have in our other safeties. After all, you can usually only field 2 at a time. If those other guys pan out well, there might be some sense in bringing in help at a weaker position (guard, CB, LB...). That is in light of the above quote - a good pass rush can help the secondary. Finally, IF Byrd were only asking for, say, 6 million a year, I think the deal would be done by now. He's probably asking for 8 to 9 million a year, so in light of the potential we have with the other safeties, I'll hold off judgment on this situation and see how it pans out.

Keister you often have sound points. but i am not sure about our untried A williams who has done nothing for me to like him yet at any position much less duke w or even moreso meeks or silva or the other guy. i dont think we are in a position of leverage actually. and that all sounds risky to me. man i wish it was monday already

[Thurmal34]

I don't know....play to play there are a lot of "where's Mario?" gaps.

 

Yup, like any great player, up to and including Barry Sanders, Bruce Smith and Megatron. However, in Buffalo's biggest game of the year, Williams was HUGE. Are you a neophyte to the NFL? Expecting any player to do something "play to play" seems silly, and suggests either ADD or a newness to the game as a whole.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Thurmal34

[Malazan]

well my friend that is an interesting point. consider that Byrd was never rotated out. He had the most snaps on the team i think maybe Gilmore was next

and if it takes two players to be effective at say RE that means Byrd is even more valueable doesnt it ?

 

I don't even know how you managed to twist your brain into that thought. Pass Rushers...regardless of position are worth more than safeties.

[Best Player Available]

Yup, like any great player, up to and including Barry Sanders, Bruce Smith and Megatron. However, in Buffalo's biggest game of the year, Williams was HUGE. Are you a neophyte to the NFL? Expecting any player to do something "play to play" seems silly, and suggests either ADD or a newness to the game as a whole.

So, you're going to compare M. Williams to 2 HOFers and one future one? What was the "biggest" game of the year last year? Arizona? Mario, disapperared for entire games re-watch the last 2 divisional games of the season for great examples.

[8-8 Forever?]

We have the cap room for both. Byrd is a special talent and Mario is a beast. I will be extremely disappointed when he flies away. I really don't think Byrd wants to be in Buffalo, I see him taking less money with a contender

yes. he will do a Whitner. lots of money and playing with a top 10 franchise not afraid to spend money for talent.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Right on! These guys who pick Mario are being incredibly naive.

 

 

 

My point was that his last 5 games weren't more productive than his first 5--it was a response to the claim that he got better later in the season. You can't pick a period in the middle and leave out the last 5 weeks of the season to demonstrate how great he was playing after his procedure.

With out pressure on a NFL QB, DB's get eaten alive. They just do. You as a Bills fan should know that better then anyone. I think you are more upset that Byrd seems destined to be another good Bills player that leaves, and thus are being arguementative.

Sorry, but with out a pass rush you could have an all pro secondary and the offense would still be able to move the ball through the air.

[San-O]

Mario. Every day of the week.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

+ 1

 

Easy.

 

[Mr. WEO]

Yup, like any great player, up to and including Barry Sanders, Bruce Smith and Megatron. However, in Buffalo's biggest game of the year, Williams was HUGE. Are you a neophyte to the NFL? Expecting any player to do something "play to play" seems silly, and suggests either ADD or a newness to the game as a whole.

 

Biggest game of the year? Is that a joke? And rest assured that Mario would have to change into a completely different player, starting now, in order to put together a HOF career.

 

Oh yes, I am very new to the gaem, but with help like that you provide in enlightening posts such as this, I'm sure I'll cathc up to you some day.

 

With out pressure on a NFL QB, DB's get eaten alive. They just do. You as a Bills fan should know that better then anyone. I think you are more upset that Byrd seems destined to be another good Bills player that leaves, and thus are being arguementative.

Sorry, but with out a pass rush you could have an all pro secondary and the offense would still be able to move the ball through the air.

 

MAny posters here seemed to be answering a question that the OP is not asking (and doing it intentionally because they can't argue their choice convincingly).

 

I also agree that "an elite DE>>and elite safety". But the OP isn't asking which position is more important--he is asking which of these two players (as they are right now) is more worth keeping, i.e., which has more of an impact on the D to this point. My answer is based on the opinion that Mario is not at this time an elite DE. I don't see how anyone can say he is, based on his entire season last year. He was not "dominating" in the last 5 games.

 

If the OP had started a thread last year at this time asking who on the team you would rather have, Fitz or Stevie, would anyone respond Fitz because QB is more important than WR? No.

 

As for what becomes of Byrd, I'm not all that worried if he leaves. I've already said they shouldn't let him dictate the terms of his next contract or make him a foolish offer (as they did with Mario).

[Thurmal34]

Biggest game of the year? Is that a joke? And rest assured that Mario would have to change into a completely different player, starting now, in order to put together a HOF career.

Not a joke at all. Anyone who followed Buffalo last year knew that had they beaten Indy they would have been in the driver's seat for a berth, based on their record at the time relative to all the other playoff contenders. It was clearly the biggest game of the year at the time. It's not debatable. Once they lost that game, they were on the outside looking in. Williams was huge in that game. Try again.

 

And rest assured that Mario would have to change into a completely different player, starting now, in order to put together a HOF career.

Has anyone other than you mentioned Williams and the HOF in this thread? Who the heck said anything about the Hall of Fame? Edited July 13, 2013 by Thurmal34

[Gugny]

The biggest game of the year last year was week 17, when they put the season out of its misery.

 

I'm still hopeful that Williams will live up to the contract, but he didn't last year. He only played well against bad teams. And yes, the Colts were a bad team. He disappeared in any game against good opponents. His "resurgence" after his hysterectomy, or whoever he had, was against horrible teams.

 

I expect him to be much better this year.

 

I am a firm believer that the defense's collective psyche was a mess from knowing they were playing 2013 football with 1992 schemes.

 

That changes with the new regime, IMO.

 

Go Bills! And go Mario! (And I hope Byrd stays)

[KOKBILLS]

"male race" is a red flag...

 

[Mr. WEO]

Not a joke at all. Anyone who followed Buffalo last year knew that had they beaten Indy they would have been in the driver's seat for a berth, based on their record at the time relative to all the other playoff contenders. It was clearly the biggest game of the year at the time. It's not debatable. Once they lost that game, they were on the outside looking in. Williams was huge in that game. Try again.

 

Has anyone other than you mentioned Williams and the HOF in this thread? Who the heck said anything about the Hall of Fame?

 

The guy who's post I was responding to. Look up...

[jumbalaya]

I'd rather have both and as fans and supporters of this sorry franchise we deserve to have both signed sealed and delivered.

[Leelee Phoenix]

Mario, by far, and he hasn't even been a top 10 pass rusher this decade.

 

Byrd's a good safety and all, but I'm getting to the point where I'd like to be done with him. His value is overstated in many ways (unbelievable amount of INTs that fell in his lap his rookie year, he's an All-Pro... at a position where half the league dumps their old corners who are slow or can't tackle now)

[Tcali]

Mario, by far, and he hasn't even been a top 10 pass rusher this decade.

 

Byrd's a good safety and all, but I'm getting to the point where I'd like to be done with him. His value is overstated in many ways (unbelievable amount of INTs that fell in his lap his rookie year, he's an All-Pro... at a position where half the league dumps their old corners who are slow or can't tackle now)

fell into his lap?? I wish a few passes woulda fallen into lil dontes lap for the years and years before