drinkTHEkoolaid Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 It used to be, when there was an air crash, the NTSB assumed the investigation and that was that till they were done. Now they can't wait to get in front of the microphones. At least they don't use a teleprompter! The Pilot flying only had 40+ hours in type, that's unbelievable!. Guess the other 3 pilots were not watching the airspeed indicator. I think he had his type rating in 747 also so he was experienced flying jumbos....so I'm sure he landed at SFO at some point prior. But this definitely seems like it has pilot error written all over it. The other crew who flew first half of the flight were likely on crew rest. Most people don't realize that when a pilot gets a new rating for an aircraft...after their simulator time, the first time they actually fly that type of aircraft they have passengers. But...once again proves Boeing makes a damn good plane. If it ain't Boeing I'm not going. (Which is why 95% of the time I fly southwest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 One of the girls who died my have been run over by a rescue vehicle. Autopsy today to determine if death was caused by this or if she died prior to to the second incident. Very sad for all who are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 My use of quaaludes while running a chainsaw or the pilot issue? a little of column A a little of column B. mostly the pilot issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) http://news.yahoo.co...-013247935.html First time trying to land the 777. 0 for 1. For all the focus on mechanical issues with planes, a lot of incidents are simply pilot error, though this one is really bad with a guy just flat out botching the landing. But other mistakes can lead to the same or worse results. I've caught a few episodes of one of those Air Disasters shows on cable and it's amazing what can be forgotten. One experienced crew forgot to put the flaps into take off position and crashed on take off. The infamous KAL 007 ended up in Soviet airspace because the experienced crew had the auto-pilot on the wrong setting which caused them to deviate from the intended flight path. They flew for hours without noticing. Air France 447 crashed because an inexperienced co-pilot responded to speed loss by continually pulling back on the stick until he had stalled the plane all the way down to the ocean. Meanwhile, the captain was standing in the back of the cockpit rather than retaking control of the plane. Pilots !@#$ up like everyone else, but it costs a lot more when they do it. Edited July 8, 2013 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Asiana attendant describes dramatic evacuation Coroner: Plane crash victim may have been run over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 First time trying to land the 777. 0 for 1. Air France 447 crashed because an inexperienced co-pilot responded to speed loss by continually pulling back on the stick until he had stalled the plane all the way down to the ocean. To your first sentence, I hope his career is over and I don't think I'm being harsh. Naturally one learns from mistakes but this simply should never have happened. I also hope there are sanctions against the other pilot on duty. As for your second sentence, that's approximately what happened in the Colgan crash in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 It used to be, when there was an air crash, the NTSB assumed the investigation and that was that till they were done. Now they can't wait to get in front of the microphones. At least they don't use a teleprompter! The Pilot flying only had 40+ hours in type, that's unbelievable!. Guess the other 3 pilots were not watching the airspeed indicator. I SUSPECT that the co-pilot checking out the pilot was concentrating too much on what the pilot was doing and not on his own responsibilities (among which was checking the airspeed, as I understand it). Because otherwise, he just let the speed drop below minimum safe landing speed (about 140 kts) to stall speed (maybe 105 kts), which is a REALLY big difference, enough to make him a total dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I SUSPECT that the co-pilot checking out the pilot was concentrating too much on what the pilot was doing and not on his own responsibilities (among which was checking the airspeed, as I understand it). Because otherwise, he just let the speed drop below minimum safe landing speed (about 140 kts) to stall speed (maybe 105 kts), which is a REALLY big difference, enough to make him a total dumbass. This is a really good point. The rookie wasn't flying solo out there; all these guys missed it. total breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 What really matters is while the boys in the cockpit were playing with their levers and crashing the plane, the women in spike heels and pencil skirts were saving the lives of the passengers. Next time I witness anyone disrespecting a flight attendant, said moron will regret it deeply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 This is a really good point. The rookie wasn't flying solo out there; all these guys missed it. total breakdown. Funny thing, too...the 777's landing speed is, on average, about 10 knots slower than a 747's (depending on weather, weight, etc.) that the pilot had thousands of hours on. I just found the below link, which has an interesting discussion. It looks like they were above the glide slope and too fast a good 10 miles out, throttled back about 3.5 miles out to get on the glide slope, but forgot to throttle up again. http://www.sooeet.com/aerospace/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines-flight-214-p01.php Like most accidents or disasters, a little thing early on compounds with time until you're backed into a corner without any options. What really matters is while the boys in the cockpit were playing with their levers and crashing the plane, the women in spike heels and pencil skirts were saving the lives of the passengers. Next time I witness anyone disrespecting a flight attendant stewardess, said moron will regret it deeply. Fixed. Now get me some coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Funny thing, too...the 777's landing speed is, on average, about 10 knots slower than a 747's (depending on weather, weight, etc.) that the pilot had thousands of hours on. I just found the below link, which has an interesting discussion. It looks like they were above the glide slope and too fast a good 10 miles out, throttled back about 3.5 miles out to get on the glide slope, but forgot to throttle up again. http://www.sooeet.com/aerospace/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines-flight-214-p01.php Like most accidents or disasters, a little thing early on compounds with time until you're backed into a corner without any options. Fixed. Now get me some coffee. I suspected it was something silly mechanical that threw them off in similar fashion but I guess it's looking more like its simply inexperience. The proverbial car ended up in the living room not cause the brakes were spotty, but a 16 year old was driving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. ChumChums Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Check out this San Francisco news station absolutely reporting on the names of the pilots. Someone's going to get fired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Check out this San Francisco news station absolutely reporting on the names of the pilots. Someone's going to get fired... That's unreal. Why would you even hire those guys to be pilots, much less put them on the same crew. It's just begging for a plane crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I think he had his type rating in 747 also so he was experienced flying jumbos....so I'm sure he landed at SFO at some point prior. But this definitely seems like it has pilot error written all over it. The other crew who flew first half of the flight were likely on crew rest. Most people don't realize that when a pilot gets a new rating for an aircraft...after their simulator time, the first time they actually fly that type of aircraft they have passengers. But...once again proves Boeing makes a damn good plane. If it ain't Boeing I'm not going. (Which is why 95% of the time I fly southwest) Actually, this is a worldwide problem involving automation and the auto-flight concept. Take one of these new first officers that got his ratings in the US or Australia and came to KAL or Asiana with 225 flight hours. After takeoff, in accordance with their SOP, he calls for the autopilot to be engaged at 250’ after takeoff. How much actual flight time is that? Hardly one minute. Then he might fly for hours on the autopilot and finally disengage it (MAYBE?) below 800’ after the gear was down, flaps extended and on airspeed (auto throttle). Then he might bring it in to land. Again, how much real “flight time” or real experience did he get? Minutes! Of course, on the 777 or 747, it’s the same only they get more inflated logbooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Actually, this is a worldwide problem involving automation and the auto-flight concept. Take one of these new first officers that got his ratings in the US or Australia and came to KAL or Asiana with 225 flight hours. After takeoff, in accordance with their SOP, he calls for the autopilot to be engaged at 250’ after takeoff. How much actual flight time is that? Hardly one minute. Then he might fly for hours on the autopilot and finally disengage it (MAYBE?) below 800’ after the gear was down, flaps extended and on airspeed (auto throttle). Then he might bring it in to land. Again, how much real “flight time” or real experience did he get? Minutes! Of course, on the 777 or 747, it’s the same only they get more inflated logbooks. Sigh.... I looked into all this at one point and even visited a "pilot mill" in Florida where I would have graduated with a ton of debt, 200 hrs, and a CRJ type rating. I chose not to go that route because of the insane amount of debt you incurr and the terrible entry wages you would be paid. A new FO with a regional airline will be lucky to clear 20k. Sure life would be great if you could stick it out 10 years, build your log book and get hired by a better carrier but its a tough road until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Check out this San Francisco news station absolutely reporting on the names of the pilots. Someone's going to get fired... At first I thought this was a couple of kids making a fake video for you tube. Then other reputable news sources indicated this was reported by the station. Ho lee F that is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 (edited) At first I thought this was a couple of kids making a fake video for you tube. Then other reputable news sources indicated this was reported by the station. Ho lee F that is funny. Funniest thing is that the anchor doesn't even break her stride. Seriously? How do you not even pause after reading "Ho Lee Fuk" on your teleprompter? And NTSB confirms: an intern made up the names, and confirmed them to the TV station when they called for confirmation. Though one wonders how stupid the producers have to be to call the NTSB and ultimately get a statement from a temp intern. They also say the names were "racially charged and phonetically offensive". Great...now we not only have to watch out for offensive words, but offensive phonemes as well. Edited July 13, 2013 by DC Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Actually, this is a worldwide problem involving automation and the auto-flight concept. Take one of these new first officers that got his ratings in the US or Australia and came to KAL or Asiana with 225 flight hours. After takeoff, in accordance with their SOP, he calls for the autopilot to be engaged at 250’ after takeoff. How much actual flight time is that? Hardly one minute. Then he might fly for hours on the autopilot and finally disengage it (MAYBE?) below 800’ after the gear was down, flaps extended and on airspeed (auto throttle). Then he might bring it in to land. Again, how much real “flight time” or real experience did he get? Minutes! Of course, on the 777 or 747, it’s the same only they get more inflated logbooks. Yes, basically the majority of accidents occur when taking off or landing. Check out this San Francisco news station absolutely reporting on the names of the pilots. Someone's going to get fired... Too Effin' funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 They also say the names were "racially charged and phonetically offensive". Great...now we not only have to watch out for offensive words, but offensive phonemes as well. Phonetically offensive maybe but how could anyone not laugh at the stupidity of an entire news station getting sucked into reporting that? How could anyone not look at that list of "names" and question what was wrong? Even if they had read them off as a list once someone would have to have a lightbulb go off and recognize there was no way this list of "names" could be right. Somebody is going to feel some Bang Ding Ow over this story. In the meantime I consider it Sum Ting Foonee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 "Something's wrong!" "We're too low!" "Holy F**k!" BANG! DING! "OOOOOoooooowww!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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