Paying for education

[dayman]

http://online.wsj.co...8.html?mod=e2fb

 

As lawmakers in Washington remain at loggerheads over the student-debt crisis, Oregon's legislature is moving ahead with a plan to enable students to attend state schools with no money down. In return, under one proposal, the students would agree to pay into a special fund 3% of their salaries annually for 24 years.

 

The plan, called "Pay it Forward, Pay it Back," would create a fund that students would draw from and eventually pay into—potentially bypassing traditional education lenders and the interest rates they charge. The state would likely borrow for the fund's seed money, which could exceed $9 billion, but the program's designers intend it to become self-sustaining.

 

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Not sure this will work but at least some ideas are being floated. Generally speaking, finding a good fix to this issue is important.

[B-Large]

Maybe we should encourage kids not to borrow so much upfront....

[DC Tom]

Maybe we should encourage kids not to borrow so much upfront....

 

The problem isn't encouraging them to borrow. The problem is telling them they have to pay it back. [/Robert Applebaum]

[KD in CA]

. In return, under one proposal, the students would agree to pay into a special fund 3% of their salaries annually for 24 years..

 

So in other words, just like making a loan payment. Except of course, for the hidden tax on people who actually earn useful college degrees.

[3rdnlng]

So in other words, just like making a loan payment. Except of course, for the hidden tax on people who actually earn useful college degrees.

 

I was thinking the same thing. This penalizes the people who actually do really well and end up paying more taxes to the state too. The person that spends $200,000 on their degree and ends up a barista is going to end up paying the State back about $15,000 for their degree while the hard charger might pay back the State $600,000 for that degree. Let's see, is Oregon a red state or a blue state?

[DC Tom]

I was thinking the same thing. This penalizes the people who actually do really well and end up paying more taxes to the state too. The person that spends $200,000 on their degree and ends up a barista is going to end up paying the State back about $15,000 for their degree while the hard charger might pay back the State $600,000 for that degree. Let's see, is Oregon a red state or a blue state?

 

A Comp. Sci. degree will run about $40k at the University of Oregon. Let's say you can expect to average about $75k/yr over the first 24 years of a career. That's $54k to the state under their program. A 10-yr student loan at 6% will run you $55k.

 

 

Of course, that's for residents. Apply that program to out-of-state students. and they're getting a great deal. And there's probably a myriad other ways the state can !@#$ it up, too.

[3rdnlng]

A Comp. Sci. degree will run about $40k at the University of Oregon. Let's say you can expect to average about $75k/yr over the first 24 years of a career. That's $54k to the state under their program. A 10-yr student loan at 6% will run you $55k.

 

 

Of course, that's for residents. Apply that program to out-of-state students. and they're getting a great deal. And there's probably a myriad other ways the state can !@#$ it up, too.

 

Hey, I'm thinking of my daughter, went to Syracuse, out of state. Wasn't cheap.

[John Adams]

A Comp. Sci. degree will run about $40k at the University of Oregon. Let's say you can expect to average about $75k/yr over the first 24 years of a career. That's $54k to the state under their program. A 10-yr student loan at 6% will run you $55k.

 

 

Of course, that's for residents. Apply that program to out-of-state students. and they're getting a great deal. And there's probably a myriad other ways the state can !@#$ it up, too.

 

If it's a state loan, I would tie it to state schools. If I'm loaning PA kids money to go to school, I want them in the state school system to increase the chance they stay in state and to ensure the money I've lent stays in state.

 

A few other ideas to reduce the cost of school:

 

(1) Reduce the cost of internet classes dramatically. Right now, you pay the same to attend a lecture class as you do to watch a video of the lecture and take the class online. That makes no sense. If you set up the Internet class with X email questions and X hours of office hours (via skype), then the Internet class should cost substantially less. But universities don't recognize this (besides pure online universities).

 

(2) Better yet, reuse lectures by just making them available online...nothing new is happening in Calc I, intro to Shakespeare, or German II. Save prof time and $$ by just hitting play on the lectures.

 

(3) Stop building 8 court gym facilities and dance halls and other crap. Universities are engaged in a MADD race to outspend.

Edited July 5, 2013 by John Adams

[dayman]

If it's a state loan, I would tie it to state schools. If I'm loaning PA kids money to go to school, I want them in the state school system to increase the chance they stay in state and to ensure the money I've lent stays in state.

 

A few other ideas to reduce the cost of school:

 

(1) Reduce the cost of internet classes dramatically. Right now, you pay the same to attend a lecture class as you do to watch a video of the lecture and take the class online. That makes no sense. If you set up the Internet class with X email questions and X hours of office hours (via skype), then the Internet class should cost substantially less. But universities don't recognize this (besides pure online universities).

 

(2) Better yet, reuse lectures by just making them available online...nothing new is happening in Calc I, intro to Shakespeare, or German II. Save prof time and $$ by just hitting play on the lectures.

 

(3) Stop building 8 court gym facilities and dance halls and other crap. Universities are engaged in a MADD race to outspend.

 

I mean...does sitting the classroom really matter? Pretty sure it is basically just grading and access to the information...being physically in the classroom costs very little.

[4merper4mer]

I think the problem might have less to do with the interest rate on student loans than is claimed. Two things I can see are:

 

1. Kids getting degrees in useless majors which qualify them for nothing and

 

2. Paying legions and legions of useless bearded commies $200k+ a year to sit around bashing America, bashing the productive and encouraging kids to be counter productive.

 

I agree about the gyms and gold domes and buildings paying tribute to other buildings too.

Edited July 5, 2013 by 4merper4mer

[TakeYouToTasker]

The problem, by and large, is a culture which has convinced individuals that they all need to go to college; which has led to a market saturated in degrees. These degrees have thus become nearly worthless in practice, as most lead to lousy, low salary or wage jobs; yet because education is heavily subsidized, the actually costs of a degree continue to rise.

[IDBillzFan]

So in other words, just like making a loan payment. Except of course, for the hidden tax on people who actually earn useful college degrees.

 

Not to mention, you can only imagine what the state ultimately plans to do with that "special fund" once it has money in it.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Age 18: Student signs agreement and goes to school.

Age 22: Student graduates from school.

Age 22 1/2: Student declares Chapter 7 bankruptcy (with help of "activist" lawyer) and payback contract gets discharged.

[Chef Jim]

I had a friend post this on Facebook saying they're offering free education. I said really?!!? Free?? You pay me now or pay me later.

[B-Large]

The problem, by and large, is a culture which has convinced individuals that they all need to go to college; which has led to a market saturated in degrees. These degrees have thus become nearly worthless in practice, as most lead to lousy, low salary or wage jobs; yet because education is heavily subsidized, the actually costs of a degree continue to rise.

 

I agree with this 100%. College overall was kind of useless for most kids, you don't really learn anything that is a hard skill (for most degrees, not all), and you're eduction really comes on the job- maybe instead of having kids borrow 50-100K for a degree, maybe we strive to create an environment in high schools that really trains and identifies kids who have apititude, skip the 4 year party, and get these kids learning on the job in a field that they are interested in.

 

I spent 4 years in College after being pushed by parents, then 3 years in Grad School after being sold it was absolutely necessary. All I wanted to do at 18 was become a craftsman.. after 15 years of paying off schools loans (my grad school was paid for) and working at this professional job, I am almost certain next year I am changing direction and pursuing the craftsman path...

 

Why do we have to push everybody into the same position... IMHO, we don't.

 

 

**and yes, the Government makes it worse with subsidizing it. I have friend with 175K in student debt with Doctoral in Sociology... really?

[Chef Jim]

I agree with this 100%. College overall was kind of useless for most kids, you don't really learn anything that is a hard skill (for most degrees, not all), and you're eduction really comes on the job- maybe instead of having kids borrow 50-100K for a degree, maybe we strive to create an environment in high schools that really trains and identifies kids who have apititude, skip the 4 year party, and get these kids learning on the job in a field that they are interested in.

 

I spent 4 years in College after being pushed by parents, then 3 years in Grad School after being sold it was absolutely necessary. All I wanted to do at 18 was become a craftsman.. after 15 years of paying off schools loans (my grad school was paid for) and working at this professional job, I am almost certain next year I am changing direction and pursuing the craftsman path...

 

Why do we have to push everybody into the same position... IMHO, we don't.

 

 

**and yes, the Government makes it worse with subsidizing it. I have friend with 175K in student debt with Doctoral in Sociology... really?

 

Why borrow at all? Save $200 a month for your kid's college and in 18 years you'll have nearly $100k

[birdog1960]

I agree with this 100%. College overall was kind of useless for most kids, you don't really learn anything that is a hard skill (for most degrees, not all), and you're eduction really comes on the job- maybe instead of having kids borrow 50-100K for a degree, maybe we strive to create an environment in high schools that really trains and identifies kids who have apititude, skip the 4 year party, and get these kids learning on the job in a field that they are interested in.

 

I spent 4 years in College after being pushed by parents, then 3 years in Grad School after being sold it was absolutely necessary. All I wanted to do at 18 was become a craftsman.. after 15 years of paying off schools loans (my grad school was paid for) and working at this professional job, I am almost certain next year I am changing direction and pursuing the craftsman path...

 

Why do we have to push everybody into the same position... IMHO, we don't.

 

 

**and yes, the Government makes it worse with subsidizing it. I have friend with 175K in student debt with Doctoral in Sociology... really?

while i agree that there should be more emphasis placed on skills and trades at polytechnic, technical schools, apprenticeships etc., does anyone really believe that we don't need universities to produce experts in things like engineering, chemistry, mathematics, computer science, physics, geology and yes, psychology? harder sell to this crowd, but i'd argue they're needed to produce exceptional writers and social scientists among other positions important to society. i also think admission criteria need to be much stricter. the main reason i see for dilution of the value of some college degrees is that they're too easy to obtain at some schools and it's way too easy to be admitted. graduating college should be an accomplishment that requires above average intelligence and hard work. too often, that's not the case. but i see no reason that changes can't be made to universities in the name of efficiency and cost. 2 years at a community college followed by 2 at a traditional university works well for many kids. why not make it a program option? more inexpensive internet courses especially at the introductory level should be widely available..

 

oh, and we need higher education to produce teachers, even those overpaid commie professors.

[Koko78]

Why borrow at all? Save $200 a month for your kid's college and in 18 years you'll have nearly $100k

 

I don't see how you get $100,000 out of that, especially after perfecting a 'system' for beating Vegas and needing funds to make it happen.

[Chef Jim]

I don't see how you get $100,000 out of that, especially after perfecting a 'system' for beating Vegas and needing funds to make it happen.

 

Needing the funds?? If you can't afford to put $50 aside a week for your child's college you probably shouldn't of had kids to begin with. I won't touch your "system" remark.

[John Adams]

Age 18: Student signs agreement and goes to school.

Age 22: Student graduates from school.

Age 22 1/2: Student declares Chapter 7 bankruptcy (with help of "activist" lawyer) and payback contract gets discharged.

 

Can't discharge federal loans in bankruptcy.