Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Here is yet another bleak assessment as to what is going on in the quagmire we know so well as Iraq. Here is the link: It's beginning to look like another Vietnam BEFORE you dare chalk this article up to left-wing bias, crackpot theories, media conspiracies, out-of-loop excuses, mental instability, or whatever comes to your minds, LOOK at the bottom to see who wrote the article. I'm so HAPPY SOMEONE out there has a freakin CLUE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 OK...fair enough. Are you in favor of the U.S. launching a full scale offensive to attempt to put an end to the insurgency and instability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 My uncle was in Vietnam for three days when Tet started. Stationed on the northernmost hill in South Vietnam, 1/2 mile from the DMZ. Flipped through all of the grainy old pictures. ("There's the tree line for the DMZ".... "This was Charles. Not Chuck. Charles. He was very particular about that. I called him Chuck every chance I got. He got a letter one day, we didn't know what it was, he read it, went around behind the tank we sitting in the shade of and blew his brains out. We had to pick off gray matter from our uniforms."). The radio transmission on the day of Tet was, "SEVEN NVA DIVISIONS HEADING TO YOUR 20. DI-DI-MAO, MF'ER!!!" (For reference, there were three divisions in the entire Marine Corps at the time). 100 percent disability. He says, "I sure as sh-- wouldn't want to be there [iraq]." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 He says, "I sure as sh-- wouldn't want to be there [iraq]." 202612[/snapback] You find me someone who has seen combat who's eager to go back to it. Good luck on your quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 You find me someone who has seen combat who's eager to go back to it. Good luck on your quest. 202637[/snapback] I actually know a couple. But they're both totally nuts, glory seekers both with simultaneous delusions of immortality and death wishes. Last people that should be allowed back into combat, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I actually know a couple. But they're both totally nuts, glory seekers both with simultaneous delusions of immortality and death wishes. Last people that should be allowed back into combat, frankly. 202669[/snapback] And that was going to be my next point. Thanks for making it so quickly. They are truly exceptions to the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 OK...fair enough. Are you in favor of the U.S. launching a full scale offensive to attempt to put an end to the insurgency and instability? 202594[/snapback] Regardless of whether anyone likes it or not, the deed has been done, and we owe the Iraqi people to finish what we have started. If that is what it takes, then we have to do it. We have no choice right now... if we bail out now, it would be FAR worse than seeing it through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 My uncle was in Vietnam for three days when Tet started. Stationed on the northernmost hill in South Vietnam, 1/2 mile from the DMZ. Flipped through all of the grainy old pictures. ("There's the tree line for the DMZ".... "This was Charles. Not Chuck. Charles. He was very particular about that. I called him Chuck every chance I got. He got a letter one day, we didn't know what it was, he read it, went around behind the tank we sitting in the shade of and blew his brains out. We had to pick off gray matter from our uniforms."). The radio transmission on the day of Tet was, "SEVEN NVA DIVISIONS HEADING TO YOUR 20. DI-DI-MAO, MF'ER!!!" (For reference, there were three divisions in the entire Marine Corps at the time). 100 percent disability. He says, "I sure as sh-- wouldn't want to be there [iraq]." 202612[/snapback] My father was already disabled from a naval aircraft accident by the Vietnam War. He was there for 3 months, working for a construction outfit in 1968... he only stayed there that long... he was a hard drinker then, and just could not take it. I still have all the pictures he took while he was there; it is like something straight out of Time-Life. Any time I see Full Metal Jacket, those pictures enter my mind because that's how they are! I wonder what my father would say about this one... He and I both fully supported the Gulf War, but now, as you can see, I have a different reaction now to II. I wonder how people can stay there and work, knowing that even if they get a lot of money, any day they could be taken out by a booby trapped car, or an ambush. Everything in my mind goes back to him when I read the stories of what is happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Regardless of whether anyone likes it or not, the deed has been done, and we owe the Iraqi people to finish what we have started. If that is what it takes, then we have to do it. We have no choice right now... if we bail out now, it would be FAR worse than seeing it through... 202790[/snapback] Agreed 1,000%!!!!!!!!!!!! Keeping it honest....great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Gee what a surprise. The difference this time MUST be that we stay and clean up after ourselves instead of valiantly "withdrawing" when it becomes apparent that we ain't gonna win. There's too much at stake - in terms of terrorism ad infinitem - if we run away and leave a mess like we did in Vietnam. And besides it's the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Agreed 1,000%!!!!!!!!!!!! Keeping it honest....great job. 202851[/snapback] I try to all the time... most of my observations come out of frustration. The only thing that ever gets me really angry are the personal insults, whether sarcastic or flatly stated. Debate is one thing, but insults are another. We are all capable of reason, although sometimes it may not seem so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 And then there's this: US Gives Up Looking for WMDs. Things that make you go "argh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 You find me someone who has seen combat who's eager to go back to it. Good luck on your quest. 202637[/snapback] No sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 OK...fair enough. Are you in favor of the U.S. launching a full scale offensive to attempt to put an end to the insurgency and instability? 202594[/snapback] Wasn't the invasion a "full scale offensive"?? What about the Fallujah operation, were our hands being tied or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Regardless of whether anyone likes it or not, the deed has been done, and we owe the Iraqi people to finish what we have started. If that is what it takes, then we have to do it. We have no choice right now... if we bail out now, it would be FAR worse than seeing it through... 202790[/snapback] What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, theoretically at least, that is not a call that is the US's to make. Both the US and British governments have stated that they will withdraw their troops if requested by the Iraqi government. If, after the election, the government calls for an end to the occupation (and Sistani's party which almost certainly will win most seats has, as one of it's policies, the setting of a firm timetable for this) then that should be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, theoretically at least, that is not a call that is the US's to make. Both the US and British governments have stated that they will withdraw their troops if requested by the Iraqi government. If, after the election, the government calls for an end to the occupation (and Sistani's party which almost certainly will win most seats has, as one of it's policies, the setting of a firm timetable for this) then that should be that. 203734[/snapback] Good. And then we can lett the Sunnis kill their fellow countrymen rather than us. Ingrates. I sincerely hope they experience a mass slaughter at the hands of the Shiites after we leave. That would be their ultimate reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 And then there's this: US Gives Up Looking for WMDs. Things that make you go "argh". 202953[/snapback] This is apparently no longer an issue. The fact that it was the administration's primary reason for going to war when it did and that they were so wrong it is embarassing is not important. Not even here on the board where some, Richio in particular, submitted tons and tons of posts to the effect of "Aha! We have found the WMD's at last, take that you liberal scum". Were I Richio and Richio Mickey, there would be an entire thread devoted to those now hysterically erroneous claims. The real problem for the US and its future diplomatic efforts is that we are now the boy who cried wolf. Who will believe us next time? Statements like Cheney's (see my signature), now that reality has finally made an appearance, make us a laughing stock in many quarters of the world. I can forgive this administration a good many faults but giving the French an opportunity to laugh at us is unforgivable. Tres ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 What everyone seems to be forgetting is that, theoretically at least, that is not a call that is the US's to make. Both the US and British governments have stated that they will withdraw their troops if requested by the Iraqi government. If, after the election, the government calls for an end to the occupation (and Sistani's party which almost certainly will win most seats has, as one of it's policies, the setting of a firm timetable for this) then that should be that. 203734[/snapback] What can you say to that? It will be the next act in the sad but true story on the road to extreme fundamentalist revolution in Iraq. When we leave, the elected govt will crumble, i.e. 1973-1975. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 What can you say to that? It will be the next act in the sad but true story on the road to extreme fundamentalist revolution in Iraq. When we leave, the elected govt will crumble, i.e. 1973-1975. 203932[/snapback] Pessimist Granted, the news out of Iraq, the news we get anyway, leaves little room for optimism. Still, I am not prepared to throw in the towel on there being enough Iraqi's, as they taste more and more freedom, to create some sort of democracy. It am being naive, I know, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Still, I am not prepared to throw in the towel on there being enough Iraqi's, as they taste more and more freedom, to create some sort of democracy. 203949[/snapback] Key point: create their own democracy. The fundamental flaw in the administration's policy is the principle that democracy can be forced down others' throats. First off...point to ONE incidence in history of a country becoming democratic due to external rather than internal forces. Second...if you're forcing it down their throats, it's fundamentally not democratic. And thirdly...for democracy to succeed in Iraq, an Iraqi government will be required to maintain a reasonable level of stability. For an Iraqi government to maintain any sort of stability in the country, it'll require a very heavy-handed leadership approach - which is just my elliptical way of saying "dictatorship". Ergo, we've managed to set up a situation where a democratic form of government requires a non-democratic form of government to succeed. Or, in short, Iraq is !@#$ed. And yet...we spend all our time talking about unarmored Humvees, or troop levels, or Halliburton's accounting. This adventure is being lost on issues at a much higher level than any of that crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts