Patriots' Hernandez arrested in homicide investigation

[MDH]

You guys are obsessd with one another. Give it up already. Jeez.

 

Or just kiss and get it over with.

[Mr. WEO]

1) The rap on Hernandez was "all of the above," not just some failed drug tests as you are asserting in your latest defense of the Patriots. For some reason you're ignoring conversations from earlier in this thread which established that Urban Meyer and NFL teams knew about Hernandez' possible involvement in a shooting and the punching of the bouncer incident before he was drafted. The failed drug tests were only a part of the overall assessment which caused over one-third of NFL teams to take him off their draft boards (according to Jason Whitlock). Meyer knew about these things and only a stupid or naive person would think that Belichick didn't.

 

 

2) I am often critical of the team, just not in an extreme and unbalanced way like yourself. There are posters here who are fairly negative who are much more fair than you are. Badolbeelz, JohnC, Sisyphus, just to name 3. All of them are excellent and intelligent posters who happen to be pretty critical of the team. All of them are much more objective than you are. I accept that you and I are different but also I find that you prescribe to some very strange opinions, unlike others I've seen on this board.

 

3) My recent points about being a Bills fan is another example of one of your misdiagnoses.

 

My point was and is that it's perfectly natural and acceptable for a fan of any sports team to have a strong, unconditional, love of their team and a dislike for their opponents. Furthermore the fact that that fan's team sucks does not preempt or disqualify that fan from making fun of an opponent, talking trash about an opponent, or taking pleasure in bad things that happen to an opponent.

 

To hear some people on this board including yourself, Bills fans can't talk about Aaron Hernandez in a negative way because New England is better than us. But according to you I'm the one who's lacking objectivity.

 

4) True to form, only you could call my topic on Johnny Manziel "a screed" (while eagerly participating in it) and then accuse me of an inability to be objective about the Bills. According to your logic, not only do I hate every other team in the NFL and talk poorly about their players but apparently I hate all the NCAA teams and their players too.

 

Your attempt to make a link between what you allege to be my lack of objectivity and Johnny Manziel is incredible. It's almost like an LSD-induced free association. For the record, my posts on Johnny Manziel have nothing to do with the Buffalo Bills.

 

 

My posts on Manziel have been fair and objective. I have asked pertinent questions. I've made reasonable statements.

 

You on the other hand have decided that Manziel's done nothing wrong.

 

Tell that to the Mannings. Tell that to the campers who he was going to instruct, who attended the camp to see him. Tell that to people who think that a person who was kicked out of an instructor's role due to drinking shouldn't be drinking the very next day. Tell that to the other dozen or so college QBs who were able to wake up in the morning and meet with the high schoolers who look up to them.

 

Then tell me again that Johnny did nothing wrong.

 

As far as you being a Bills fan, everyone on this board at one time or another shares something about himself and his relationship to the Bills be it an anecdote or a general feeling.

 

If you are a fan, it's based on a pathology which hasn't yet been discovered.

 

I certainly have not defended AH nor have I said that JM has done nothing wrong. Make your points without misrepresenting my opinion.

 

If you want to hate the pats or any other team as a public show of your unconditional love of the Bills, I don't care. But don't expect everyone to do the same. Simple.

 

My position on Manziel (shared by others here, as you do not note) is that this indiscretion is being totally overblown by the press and by you. Oh those poor campers! You think they give a s88t that Johnny Manziel, a guy who has a single year of post high school football, isn;t there to impart his accumulated wisdom on them? Really?

 

As for Manziel, you haven't answered the only question that matters. Why is this episode so important to you? Why should we care that one kid in an endless line of pampered athletes has committed a modestly embarrassing lapse of judgement where no one and nothing but his reputation has been harmed?

 

It's all manufactured indignation. It's phoney.

 

Or just kiss and get it over with.

 

I tried!

[BringBackFergy]

"...like sands falling through the Hourglass..."

[Doc]

I certainly have not defended AH nor have I said that JM has done nothing wrong. Make your points without misrepresenting my opinion.

 

If you want to hate the pats or any other team as a public show of your unconditional love of the Bills, I don't care. But don't expect everyone to do the same. Simple.

 

My position on Manziel (shared by others here, as you do not note) is that this indiscretion is being totally overblown by the press and by you. Oh those poor campers! You think they give a s88t that Johnny Manziel, a guy who has a single year of post high school football, isn;t there to impart his accumulated wisdom on them? Really?

 

As for Manziel, you haven't answered the only question that matters. Why is this episode so important to you? Why should we care that one kid in an endless line of pampered athletes has committed a modestly embarrassing lapse of judgement where no one and nothing but his reputation has been harmed?

 

It's all manufactured indignation. It's phoney.

Being told to go home from the Manning passing camp is overblown? Hardly. It's an embarrassment for him and maybe it's an isolated incident, but NFL GM's are certainly taking notice. Hopefully the kid gets his head on straight but he's wearing-out his boy-next-door-first-freshman-Heismann-winner charm quickly.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Doc

[Best Player Available]

Hopefully the kid gets his head on straight but he's wearing-out his boy-next-door-first-freshman-Heismann-winner charm quickly.

The important word here is "kid". Very easy to judge and comment on especially for people who might have kids that age, or raised any.

Myself, I have never met a kid that doesn't screw up. Especially, when they hit the "experimental" stage of early adulthood. And, certainly not one in the national spotlight. i call this a no foul.

Coddled athlete? Maybe. troublemaker? no.

[Doc]

The important word here is "kid". Very easy to judge and comment on especially for people who might have kids that age, or raised any.

Myself, I have never met a kid that doesn't screw up. Especially, when they hit the "experimental" stage of early adulthood. And, certainly not one in the national spotlight. i call this a no foul.

Coddled athlete? Maybe. troublemaker? no.

You likely also never met a kid who will probably be making multi-millions by the time he/she is 22. Like it or not, he's a role model to many now. The question is whether he grows up faster or still continues to be a kid. Hopefully it's the former.

[NoSaint]

 

You likely also never met a kid who will probably be making multi-millions by the time he/she is 22. Like it or not, he's a role model to many now. The question is whether he grows up faster or still continues to be a kid. Hopefully it's the former.

 

given he will possibly be drafted in 8 months, the "kid" excuse wont last him long. that said it seems out of place in this thread, as its a whooooole different type of character problem/red flag.

[Mr. WEO]

Being told to go home from the Manning passing camp is overblown? Hardly. It's an embarrassment for him and maybe it's an isolated incident, but NFL GM's are certainly taking notice. Hopefully the kid gets his head on straight but he's wearing-out his boy-next-door-first-freshman-Heismann-winner charm quickly.

 

Completely overblown. Did the "NFL GM's" spend three seconds thinking of JM's arrest last offseason while he was setting records as starting QB? I really doubt that. If he has the same type of year or close, they won't give a second's pause over this bit of overhyped drama.

 

given he will possibly be drafted in 8 months, the "kid" excuse wont last him long. that said it seems out of place in this thread, as its a whooooole different type of character problem/red flag.

 

Without the AH story , this topic would be a tiny footnote.

[Doc]

Completely overblown. Did the "NFL GM's" spend three seconds thinking of JM's arrest last offseason while he was setting records as starting QB? I really doubt that. If he has the same type of year or close, they won't give a second's pause over this bit of overhyped drama.

Considering no one knew who the hell Johnny Manziel was before his arrest and history-making freshman season, I'd say no, NFL GM's didn't care at all. Now that he's made himself a contender for a high draft pick, going back to that and this latest incident, he'll be under their microscope. To deny this would be silly.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Doc

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I certainly have not defended AH nor have I said that JM has done nothing wrong. Make your points without misrepresenting my opinion.

 

If you want to hate the pats or any other team as a public show of your unconditional love of the Bills, I don't care. But don't expect everyone to do the same. Simple.

 

My position on Manziel (shared by others here, as you do not note) is that this indiscretion is being totally overblown by the press and by you. Oh those poor campers! You think they give a s88t that Johnny Manziel, a guy who has a single year of post high school football, isn;t there to impart his accumulated wisdom on them? Really?

 

As for Manziel, you haven't answered the only question that matters. Why is this episode so important to you? Why should we care that one kid in an endless line of pampered athletes has committed a modestly embarrassing lapse of judgement where no one and nothing but his reputation has been harmed?

 

It's all manufactured indignation. It's phoney.

 

You are misrepresenting yourself. You haven't been accused of defending AH. You've been accused of defending the Patriots. Pretty simple distinction.

 

You are however misrepresenting me. I hate the Patriots but that's never stopped me from being objective about them. You again missed my point which is that it is natural and acceptable for a fan of a team to hate that team's rivals. It is our right regardless of what you believe.

 

As for Manziel, you never answered my question:

 

If it's not important why are you the second-most frequent poster in the Johnny Manziel thread? You have more posts in that thread than I do.

 

If you think something is unimportant or not interesting, then don't post in it.

 

You seem to be fascinated with the topic about the NCAA and EA Sports. I think it's boring so I don't post in it. On the other hand, the Johnny Manziel topic has had many pages and responses in a short period of time so what seems like a non-issue to you might not be a non-issue to everyone.

 

I won't co-conspire to hijack this AH thread anymore. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[Tcali]

 

 

You are misrepresenting yourself. You haven't been accused of defending AH. You've been accused of defending the Patriots. Pretty simple distinction.

 

You are however misrepresenting me. I hate the Patriots but that's never stopped me from being objective about them. You again missed my point which is that it is natural and acceptable for a fan of a team to hate that team's rivals. It is our right regardless of what you believe.

 

As for Manziel, you never answered my question:

 

If it's not important why are you the second-most frequent poster in the Johnny Manziel thread? You have more posts in that thread than I do.

 

If you think something is unimportant or not interesting, then don't post in it.

 

You seem to be fascinated with the topic about the NCAA and EA Sports. I think it's boring so I don't post in it. On the other hand, the Johnny Manziel topic has had many pages and responses in a short period of time so what seems like a non-issue to you might not be a non-issue to everyone.

 

I won't co-conspire to hijack this AH thread anymore. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

 

SJB--can you imagine what Kenny Stabler was like BEFORE he 'matured'??? Holy S..I have been in northern CA a long time--and I knew people who knew people...now that was one good ole drinking partyin fellow.

[Mr. WEO]

Considering no one knew who the hell Johnny Manziel was before his arrest and history-making freshman season, I'd say no, NFL GM's didn't care at all. Now that he's made himself a contender for a high draft pick, going back to that and this latest incident, he'll be under their microscope. To deny this would be silly.

 

Cam Newton.

 

 

You are misrepresenting yourself. You haven't been accused of defending AH. You've been accused of defending the Patriots. Pretty simple distinction.

 

You are however misrepresenting me. I hate the Patriots but that's never stopped me from being objective about them. You again missed my point which is that it is natural and acceptable for a fan of a team to hate that team's rivals. It is our right regardless of what you believe.

 

As for Manziel, you never answered my question:

 

If it's not important why are you the second-most frequent poster in the Johnny Manziel thread? You have more posts in that thread than I do.

 

If you think something is unimportant or not interesting, then don't post in it.

 

You seem to be fascinated with the topic about the NCAA and EA Sports. I think it's boring so I don't post in it. On the other hand, the Johnny Manziel topic has had many pages and responses in a short period of time so what seems like a non-issue to you might not be a non-issue to everyone.

 

I won't co-conspire to hijack this AH thread anymore. Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

 

If you hate a team simply because it is a rival, you can't really be objective about them. I pointed this out when I was defendeing the pats.....oh, I mean when I said it was silly to suggest they would or should have known he was capable of such an act of premeditated violence the day they extended his contract.

 

I have already stipulated (several times) that you are free to exercise your "right" to hate any team you wish as part of your fan-ness. Don't expect everyone to be as you are.

 

As for the JM thread, I am interested (fascinated, actually) in the discussion going on about this "event"--that should be obvious to you. That is distinct from the point of my argument--which, again, is why should the fate of this kid as related to this social gaffe be so profound and why should we be worried about him or the implications of hangovers on personal committments. Put another way, what's the real reason people are jumping on this kid for this trifle? Are they really really concerned about the implications on his "draftability"? I really don't think so...

 

To summarize: Infraction---overblown, discussion----interesting.

[JohnC]

 

As for the JM thread, I am interested (fascinated, actually) in the discussion going on about this "event"--that should be obvious to you. That is distinct from the point of my argument--which, again, is why should the fate of this kid as related to this social gaffe be so profound and why should we be worried about him or the implications of hangovers on personal committments. Put another way, what's the real reason people are jumping on this kid for this trifle? Are they really really concerned about the implications on his "draftability"? I really don't think so...

 

To summarize: Infraction---overblown, discussion----interesting.

 

The JM infraction, as you referred to it, is not mostly about a single event; it is about an accumulation of events None of the infractions by themselves mount to anything serious. But the string of events do indicate a lack of maturity. That is a very important issue when considering drafting a qb with a high pick.

 

JM is a high profile player and person who has won the Heisman award. As it currently stands he has not handled his very public position too well. I'm sure that even he would admit that he has brought a lot of the unwanted attention onto himself with his less than mature off field behavior.He's a kid, I get that. But he chose to participate in a high profile football environment. Dealing with that environment is part of the business that he can't escape from.

[Doc]

Cam Newton.

Look doc, I know you like JM, which is the only reason you're defending him. Why you like him to the point of irrationally refusing to admit that he's on a short leash now, or should be, after 2 incidents, is anyone's guess.

[Mr. WEO]

Look doc, I know you like JM, which is the only reason you're defending him. Why you like him to the point of irrationally refusing to admit that he's on a short leash now, or should be, after 2 incidents, is anyone's guess.

 

I really don't care much about JM. I've made that clear. I just think this is only a story because it's the off season and I think the sanctimony is laughable.

 

Was Newton "on a short leash"? GMs (including our own Cornpone Cowboy) were drooling over this guy, despite him being the dirtiest prospect at QB in NCAA history.

 

JM had no problems in season, which is all that really matters. Another year like last and you and SJBF will be the only ones still thinking about underage drinking and insulting Archie Manning.

[Doc]

I really don't care much about JM. I've made that clear. I just think this is only a story because it's the off season and I think the sanctimony is laughable.

 

Was Newton "on a short leash"? GMs (including our own Cornpone Cowboy) were drooling over this guy, despite him being the dirtiest prospect at QB in NCAA history.

 

JM had no problems in season, which is all that really matters. Another year like last and you and SJBF will be the only ones still thinking about underage drinking and insulting Archie Manning.

Sure you don't really care much about JM. You always post dozens of posts about guys about whom you're indifferent.

 

But yes, time will tell about JM. Which was the point since no one has a crystal ball, just past history.

[Mr. WEO]

Sure you don't really care much about JM. You always post dozens of posts about guys about whom you're indifferent.

 

But yes, time will tell about JM. Which was the point since no one has a crystal ball, just past history.

 

It's the issue raised, not the guy, doc. I've said so repeatedly.

 

You should really read the article K-9 posted on the JM thread. It will open your eyes...maybe.

[Doc]

It's the issue raised, not the guy, doc. I've said so repeatedly.

 

You should really read the article K-9 posted on the JM thread. It will open your eyes...maybe.

Oh, it's the issue raised. Funny how that doesn't work for other guys.

 

And I just read it. Funny that she calls out the critics for being publicity hounds when she's doing the same thing, but as JM's personal cheerleader. But this part pretty much sums it up:

 

“At the end of the day, I’m not going for the Miss America pageant,” he said. You could interpret that as either supremely confident or too dumb to learn. The point is, we can’t know which one he is yet.

[Mr. WEO]

Oh, it's the issue raised. Funny how that doesn't work for other guys.

 

And I just read it. Funny that she calls out the critics for being publicity hounds when she's doing the same thing, but as JM's personal cheerleader. But this part pretty much sums it up:

 

Welll...I did say "maybe". Yes, she is a well known "publicity hound" and personal cheerleader. She must "like" JM too, right?-otherwise no way anyone could possibly write such and article...right? This like high school for you, all about who likes who!

[Doc]

Welll...I did say "maybe". Yes, she is a well known "publicity hound" and personal cheerleader. She must "like" JM too, right?-otherwise no way anyone could possibly write such and article...right? This like high school for you, all about who likes who!

Life is a lot like high school WEO. A lot of it is about popularity contests and knocking people down.