bills44 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I look forward to your answer. Don't hold your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Please... Anyway, of the red flags that you insist the pats knew back than, which, specifically, should have been the dealbreaker(s) against extending him? It's right there in the same post, doc. And a thread on any other team whose player killed someone would last dozens of pages, given the amount of info coming out almost daily. Your indignation that it's the Pats, and refusal to admit they screwed the pooch, is typical of you. And while I won't say you're a Pats fan, you're definitely invested in propping them up at every turn, despite the major embarrassments they've suffered these last 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Again I never said they'd have known that. Just answering your question. The pre-draft stuff. The domestic disturbance. Gang ties/circle of friends. Talking to Welker and Light about what a prick he was. Hell even his lack of durability. They extended him with 2 years left on his contract. They screwed up big time. Like Jauron was a crappy coach, AH was a crappy human being. So, two years after taking the risk and drafting him, and him having no new legal, domestic or drug problems while with the team, they should have not resigned him because Welker and Light thought he was a dick? And nearly everyone could see (and loudly predicted here) that Jauron would crap out the rest of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 You certainly are a moving target. I will answer by asking what I asked doc--what specific events between draft and extending should have told them not to extend? You move quite quickly for a straw man. In answer to your latest diversion, take your pick: Any of the predraft stuff, the stuff in Hermosa Beach, the secret flophouse… I didn't realize that you needed everything spelled out for you but I guess after you missed out on the red highlights, I should have known. Now how about you answer my questions: Why would you expect me to object to the contract extension at the time it was given when I don't work for the NFL or an NFL club's security department? Why would you equate my missing out on AH's character flaws with New England missing them? Do you deny that there is a broad range between being a murderer and not being a murderer? Would you say that drafting a violent person would be essentially the same as drafting a marijuana smoker? Please, answer even just two of the questions. Anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Two guys shot dead by someone in a silver SUV like the one Hernandez was driving right after they got in a fight with Hernandez? Or maybe you think the Pats and law enforcement were completely clueless about his presence at that particular club. On a separate note I am trying to sell a few things. Would you like to buy this: So the cops knew it was AH, as well as the pats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 So, two years after taking the risk and drafting him, and him having no new legal, domestic or drug problems while with the team, they should have not resigned him because Welker and Light thought he was a dick? And nearly everyone could see (and loudly predicted here) that Jauron would crap out the rest of the season See again. Like Marauder'sMicro your trying to equate a lack of criminal charges with having a clean track record. You don't truly believe they're the same thing… DO YOU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Again I never said they'd have known that. Just answering your question. The pre-draft stuff. The domestic disturbance. Gang ties/circle of friends. Talking to Welker and Light about what a prick he was. Hell even his lack of durability. They extended him with 2 years left on his contract. They screwed up big time. Like Jauron was a crappy coach, AH was a crappy human being. So what happens if they ask branch instead of welker? Who even says welker had bad blood based on one incident years prior reported without context. I know you want this to be a nefarious move by the pats. Truth is it looks like a simple risk that backfired. Aaron is a great guy and a great friend of mine and a great teammate,” the former Patriots wide receiver told The Albany Herald on Saturday. “I love him to death, and it was shocking to hear his name involved in this situation. I truly hope and pray he doesn’t have any dealings with it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 So, two years after taking the risk and drafting him, and him having no new legal, domestic or drug problems while with the team, they should have not resigned him because Welker and Light thought he was a dick? They extended him; they didn't sign him. There's a distinction there. He had 2 years left. And again his history was so bad that 12 teams wouldn't draft him. And obviously there was stuff going on behind the scenes. I mean really, this cannot be denied. If they truly thought the "Patriot Way" changed him, when it hasn't changed anyone, then they deserve what's happening to them because of their lack of due diligence. And I'm laughing at them just as much as you were laughing at the Bills for extending Jauron. And nearly everyone could see (and loudly predicted here) that Jauron would crap out the rest of the season After the 5-0 start? Really? So what happens if they ask branch instead of welker? Who even says welker had bad blood based on one incident years prior reported without context. I know you want this to be a nefarious move by the pats. Truth is it looks like a simple risk that backfired. Aaron is a great guy and a great friend of mine and a great teammate," the former Patriots wide receiver told The Albany Herald on Saturday. "I love him to death, and it was shocking to hear his name involved in this situation. I truly hope and pray he doesn't have any dealings with it." I would have asked for opinions from everyone on the team, of importance. Which would exclude Branch, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 See again. Like Marauder'sMicro your trying to equate a lack of criminal charges with having a clean track record. You don't truly believe they're the same thing… DO YOU? That's one of my biggest pet peeves every spring... "He hasn't been arrested in like 6 months clearly he's a great guy now! Lets draft him!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 So the cops knew it was AH, as well as the pats? It is possible they didn't have an inkling. Want to buy that bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 You move quite quickly for a straw man. In answer to your latest diversion, take your pick: Any of the predraft stuff, the stuff in Hermosa Beach, the secret flophouse… I didn't realize that you needed everything spelled out for you but I guess after you missed out on the red highlights, I should have known. Now how about you answer my questions: Why would you expect me to object to the contract extension at the time it was given when I don't work for the NFL or an NFL club's security department? Why would you equate my missing out on AH's character flaws with New England missing them? Do you deny that there is a broad range between being a murderer and not being a murderer? Would you say that drafting a violent person would be essentially the same as drafting a marijuana smoker? Please, answer even just two of the questions. Anything... I have answered these. They, like most teams, reportedly, were not alarmed by his predraft history. The NFL has been littered with wifebeaters and guys who got in bar fights--none of them went on to be murderers. So it really doesn't matter once they drafted him. We are talking about the extension. They gave him a small contract and told him to keep his nose clean. You can give no evidence that they knew that he hadn't kept clean. Your entire argument is based on speculation (the pats investigators are superior than police investigators) that you simply want to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 That's one of my biggest pet peeves every spring... "He hasn't been arrested in like 6 months clearly he's a great guy now! Lets draft him!!" There you go! A lack of arrests doesn't mean he was clean. As we are obviously finding out now. Could they have known? Should they have known? Debatable. Did it bite them in the ass? Definitely. I'm sure ol' Bobby K is wondering who F'ed this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 They extended him; they didn't sign him. There's a distinction there. He had 2 years left. And again his history was so bad that 12 teams wouldn't draft him. And obviously there was stuff going on behind the scenes. I mean really, this cannot be denied. If they truly thought the "Patriot Way" changed him, when it hasn't changed anyone, then they deserve what's happening to them because of their lack of due diligence. And I'm laughing at them just as much as you were laughing at the Bills for extending Jauron. After the 5-0 start? Really? I would have asked for opinions from everyone on the team, of importance. Which would exclude Branch, but... Really, after 5-0. His previous performance predicted future outcome. You specifically, hilariously predicted that they signed him early because there would be a bidding war by the end of the season for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I have answered these. They, like most teams, reportedly, were not alarmed by his predraft history. The NFL has been littered with wifebeaters and guys who got in bar fights--none of them went on to be murderers. So it really doesn't matter once they drafted him. We are talking about the extension. They gave him a small contract and told him to keep his nose clean. You can give no evidence that they knew that he hadn't kept clean. Your entire argument is based on speculation (the pats investigators are superior than police investigators) that you simply want to be true. Truly were talking about 6 different things with 6 different people chiming in and going in circles. I know you and doc won't concede an inch to each other in debate..... So it might be getting to the point of just chalking it up as discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 There you go! A lack of arrests doesn't mean he was clean. As we are obviously finding out now. Could they have known? Should they have known? Debatable. Did it bite them in the ass? Definitely. I'm sure ol' Bobby K is wondering who F'ed this up. Yes, as we are finding out now. That nicely sums it up doc. You always come around at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I have answered these. They, like most teams, reportedly, were not alarmed by his predraft history. The NFL has been littered with wifebeaters and guys who got in bar fights--none of them went on to be murderers. So it really doesn't matter once they drafted him. We are talking about the extension. They gave him a small contract and told him to keep his nose clean. You can give no evidence that they knew that he hadn't kept clean. Your entire argument is based on speculation (the pats investigators are superior than police investigators) that you simply want to be true. First of all, you have not directly answered any of my questions but then again I'm not surprised. As to the bolded above, (sigh) you base your entire argument on speculation that you simply want to be true. As I already pointed out very recently, neither of us know how much the Patriots knew. But according to you, I'm the one speculating. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) There you go! A lack of arrests doesn't mean he was clean. As we are obviously finding out now. Could they have known? Should they have known? Debatable. Did it bite them in the ass? Definitely. I'm sure ol' Bobby K is wondering who F'ed this up. It doesn't. Obviously. he literally couldve been killing people and not been caught. Just like trouble in his past doesn't mean he was unemployable. In fact it's all kinds of gray and we will never truly know what they knew, or thought they knew... Heck, we still don't know the details of the events so we don't know what they could've known. Edited July 5, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 First of all, you have not directly answered any of my questions but then again I'm not surprised. As to the bolded above, (sigh) you base your entire argument on speculation that you simply want to be true. As I already pointed out very recently, neither of us know how much the Patriots knew. But according to you, I'm the one speculating. :lol: The difference is that you want others to believe they should have known many things that most (including law enforcement) only now know. No, smoking weed is not like killing someone (and I;m the spinner of straw arguments?)--hard to believe I had to type that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes, as we are finding out now. That nicely sums it up doc. You always come around at the end. LOL! WE are finding it out now, doc. The bad stuff was always there, waiting to be dug up. The gang-banging friends. The "flop house" replete with guns and drugs. Try to keep up. It doesn't. Obviously. he literally couldve been killing people and not been caught. Just like trouble in his past doesn't mean he was unemployable. In fact it's all kinds of gray and we will never truly know what they knew, or thought they knew... Heck, we still don't know the details of the events so we don't know what they could've known. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy when it comes to WEO and the Pats. For everyone else it's the bottom line. For them, it's all sorts of excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 LOL! WE are finding it out now, doc. The bad stuff was always there, waiting to be dug up. The gang-banging friends. The "flop house" replete with guns and drugs. Try to keep up. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy when it comes to WEO and the Pats. For everyone else it's the bottom line. For them, it's all sorts of excuses. So the pats knew all this stuff back then...including the "flop house replete with guns and drugs" and ignored it Just to sign this guy? Or it was so obvious that he was involved in....something...but they chose not to "dig it up"? Come on! How is it that not one of his team mates then or now ever even hinted that he was deep in to illegal gun/drug/gang activity? Matt Light anf Welker certainly didn't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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