Chandler#81 Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 I haven't read that far into the double homicide part. Was that SUV missing since the 2012 murders? I did read that they recently found it. I also read that it was rented by Hernandez. My guess is that he returned it and the police just tracked it down through the rental agency. Is that correct? If it was truly missing and last rented to Hernandez why would he have not been under investigation? Yeah, I'm not sure either, but we do have some clever sleuths on board here. After re-reading this article, it's unclear which AH-rented vehicle keys were found on Lloyds body. Best guess; Hernandez didn't return that SUV from last summer, letting an aquaintence use it away from the crime scene. If LE had a plate number then, they would have immediately tracked it to the rental agency. No? http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/us/nfl-hernandez/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
JohnC Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) I am a fan, and my feelings about this issue do make me feel a bit uneasy about the sport. But at the end of the day my loyalty is to Buffalo, and since I'm not interested in hockey (baseball is probably my favorite sport now), the Bills are all I have. I truly think that football has a far higher percentage of violent sociopaths than any other sport. It certainly bears out in the arrest numbers. Given the nature of the game, it's hardly surprising. The issue I have with your prior post is with the high % of players you believe who have serious criminal tendencies. That is where I mostly disagree with the tenor of your post. It appears that AH is a stone cold killer who might be involved in other killings. But I strongly doubt that he represents more than a miniscule number of really bad people playing in the NFL. If I felt that the sport was inhabited by a number of "sociopaths" (your friend's characterization) and the league continued to allow these type of bad characters to play I would find another sport to follow, regardless of home team loyalties. Roger Goodell has made a concerted effort to hold people accountable for their behavior on and off the field. In general I think he is doing a good job. This issue of player behavior was so important to the league that it wouldn't concede their authority to hold the players and team staff accountable for on and off the field conduct. The NFL is a high profile sport during the season and offseason. It is easy to get the impression that there is a pervasive problem of criminality when these few high profile cases get such intense exposure. But don't let these few "incredible" cases prejudice your judgment toward the league as a whole. I didn't intend to make any personal slights toward you with your first post. I hope you took my response in that spirit. Edited June 28, 2013 by JohnC
Chandler#81 Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 I haven't read that far into the double homicide part. Was that SUV missing since the 2012 murders? I did read that they recently found it. I also read that it was rented by Hernandez. My guess is that he returned it and the police just tracked it down through the rental agency. Is that correct? If it was truly missing and last rented to Hernandez why would he have not been under investigation? Here's more on the double homicide possible links and missing SUV. Lengthy, but worth the read, IMO. http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/us/nfl-hernandez/index.html
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 So this joker is now suspected in another double homicide in Boston last summer in addition to all this nonsense with regard to this Florida lawsuit. Is there any doubt that at some point this guy killed someone within the confines of Florida, which has the death penalty? At that point, any chance he could get extradited and face the so called "golden needle" for his transgressions? What say you legal eagles? The more layers that get pulled away the more unbelievable this case is.
NoSaint Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 So this joker is now suspected in another double homicide in Boston last summer in addition to all this nonsense with regard to this Florida lawsuit. Is there any doubt that at some point this guy killed someone within the confines of Florida, which has the death penalty? At that point, any chance he could get extradited and face the so called "golden needle" for his transgressions? What say you legal eagles? The more layers that get pulled away the more unbelievable this case is. no dead bodies in florida, atleast yet... would be hard to surprise me at this point though.
Gugny Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 So this joker is now suspected in another double homicide in Boston last summer in addition to all this nonsense with regard to this Florida lawsuit. Is there any doubt that at some point this guy killed someone within the confines of Florida, which has the death penalty? At that point, any chance he could get extradited and face the so called "golden needle" for his transgressions? What say you legal eagles? The more layers that get pulled away the more unbelievable this case is. What would his execution do for anyone? It's less expensive to let him rot in prison; he'd be removed from society, and there wouldn't be the need for another death.
K-9 Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 What would his execution do for anyone? It's less expensive to let him rot in prison; he'd be removed from society, and there wouldn't be the need for another death. And it wouldn't create additonal victims like his daughter and other family members. I was just reading an article about the cost of the death penalty in various states and you're right. It's a helluva lot cheaper to keep him in for life than for the taxpayers to support a death penalty conviction. And by a lot, too.
Jauronimo Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 And it wouldn't create additonal victims like his daughter and other family members. I was just reading an article about the cost of the death penalty in various states and you're right. It's a helluva lot cheaper to keep him in for life than for the taxpayers to support a death penalty conviction. And by a lot, too. Thats more a product of massive bureaucracy screwing everything up than true economic costs. The Chinese have it down to science. Trial, conviction, execution within 3 weeks and then they invoice the family of the deceased 3 yuan for the bullet used. Think of the savings!
Gugny Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 Thats more a product of massive bureaucracy screwing everything up than true economic costs. The Chinese have it down to science. Trial, conviction, execution within 3 weeks and then they invoice the family of the deceased 3 yuan for the bullet used. Think of the savings! I always got a kick out of Howard Stern's idea. Kill the convicts and fill the pot holes with their bodies.
4merper4mer Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 Here's more on the double homicide possible links and missing SUV. Lengthy, but worth the read, IMO. http://www.cnn.com/2...ndez/index.html Weird that they had been "looking for the SUV for over a year" but had somehow not made a connection to Hernandez. Then they find it all of a sudden as this is all going on? Either: A. Someone is talking a lot B. They had a vehicle description but no plates for a year; then when Hernandez was arrested they looked at his past rental vehicles and bingo C. They had plates numbers, knew he had rented it and have had him on the radar for a year If C how did this not make the news? I think it had to be B and that the car has probably been rented 100 times since. Good luck using evidence from that. If it is C and someone talking helped them locate it, then the police have some splainin to do.
thebandit27 Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 Weird that they had been "looking for the SUV for over a year" but had somehow not made a connection to Hernandez. Then they find it all of a sudden as this is all going on? Either: A. Someone is talking a lot B. They had a vehicle description but no plates for a year; then when Hernandez was arrested they looked at his past rental vehicles and bingo C. They had plates numbers, knew he had rented it and have had him on the radar for a year If C how did this not make the news? I think it had to be B and that the car has probably been rented 100 times since. Good luck using evidence from that. If it is C and someone talking helped them locate it, then the police have some splainin to do. That's been my impression since the moment he was arrested...someone rolled on him...no doubt in my mind.
Prickly Pete Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) That's been my impression since the moment he was arrested...someone rolled on him...no doubt in my mind. How much talking was needed at the start, when there were things like the text messages from Odin to his sister, a vehicle in his name near the body, and a set of keys in the dead man's possession that were to a vehicle rented in AH's name. There are likely things I'm missing, but how did this lead you to "there must be a snitch'? So many hindsight sleuths here... Is there "talking" going on now? Probably, but at this point that's "no sh** , Sherlock". Edited June 28, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro
thebandit27 Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 How much talking was needed at the start, when there were things like the text messages from Odin to his sister, a vehicle in his name near the body, and a set of keys in the dead man's possession that were to a vehicle rented in AH's name. There are likely things I'm missing, but how did this lead you to "there must be a snitch'? So many hindsight sleuths here... Now is there "talking" going on? Probably, but at this point it's "no sh** , Sherlock". Wow, you're a friendly, non-confrontational dude huh? How do you suppose police knew where to look for Carlos Ortiz? Intuition? Also, I didn't realize I had to tell you personally what I felt at the time of his arrest in order to provide what my impression was... In short--please don't be an a-hole. That is all.
BillsFanM.D. Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 What would his execution do for anyone? It's less expensive to let him rot in prison; he'd be removed from society, and there wouldn't be the need for another death. And it wouldn't create additonal victims like his daughter and other family members. I was just reading an article about the cost of the death penalty in various states and you're right. It's a helluva lot cheaper to keep him in for life than for the taxpayers to support a death penalty conviction. And by a lot, too. This is where I stand currently. Simply an economic decision. Thats more a product of massive bureaucracy screwing everything up than true economic costs. The Chinese have it down to science. Trial, conviction, execution within 3 weeks and then they invoice the family of the deceased 3 yuan for the bullet used. Think of the savings! Now...if there was a scenario where the evidence is a slam dunk. I.e. confession to witnessed events.. Terminate without delay and save the cash.
Prickly Pete Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Wow, you're a friendly, non-confrontational dude huh? How do you suppose police knew where to look for Carlos Ortiz? Intuition? Also, I didn't realize I had to tell you personally what I felt at the time of his arrest in order to provide what my impression was... In short--please don't be an a-hole. That is all. Why post an opinion, if you don't want people to react to it (especially one that implies some kind of special understanding of the situation)? Your post implies that you figured out that someone ratted him out, and I have no idea what there is about his becoming a suspect that indicated someone snitching on him. It appears more likely that the evidence pointed right at him, and that is one of the key points that makes the story interesting, the ineptness of the crime. Edited June 28, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro
NoSaint Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Why post an opinion, if you don't want people to react to it (especially one that implies some kind of special understanding of the situation)? Your post implies that you figured out that someone ratted him out, and I have no idea what there is about his becoming a suspect that indicated someone snitching on him. It appears more likely that the evidence pointed right at him. generally, it seems he would have had to have actively gone out of his way to leave more evidence pointing at him. that said, any case has people talking - to what degree and who is the mystery. once they have the guy circled, and start talking to friends, family, people they ran into that night, etc.... its still unclear what level of participation they have from people. the way its gone, there may have been all kinds of existing evidence that pointed them exactly where to go, or it could be someone with particular knowledge. likely a bit of each. Edited June 28, 2013 by NoSaint
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 What would his execution do for anyone? It's less expensive to let him rot in prison; he'd be removed from society, and there wouldn't be the need for another death. Fig, my good friend, YE OLE isn't suggesting or supporting the idea, just throwing it out there. It seems that the more days go by the more allegations arise. It will be interesting to see how far this goes back.
DC Tom Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 How do you suppose police knew where to look for Carlos Ortiz? Intuition? They probably asked the NSA. I was just reading an article about the cost of the death penalty in various states and you're right. It's a helluva lot cheaper to keep him in for life than for the taxpayers to support a death penalty conviction. And by a lot, too. Only because of some of the truly ridiculous appeals processes surrounding it. Not that I'm a big fan of the death penalty, mind you...but I do believe that some people are just far too damaged and need to be removed (Jeffrey Dahmer, for example. Or Gary Ridgeway, or Charles Ng), with a minimum of fuss and fanfare, much as one would remove malignant cancer cells from a healthy body. But when you've got a state like California, where their four billion dollar program executes eight people, a ****head like Charles Ng rings up eight figures in court costs with constant appeals, and a criminal like Richard Ramirez - an !@#$ as deserving of execution as anyone - dies of liver failure waiting on death row...that's not "The death penalty is too expensive" as much as "Your penal system is FUBAR'd."
Prickly Pete Posted June 28, 2013 Posted June 28, 2013 generally, it seems he would have had to have actively gone out of his way to leave more evidence pointing at him. that said, any case has people talking - to what degree and who is the mystery. once they have the guy circled, and start talking to friends, family, people they ran into that night, etc.... its still unclear what level of participation they have from people. the way its gone, there may have been all kinds of existing evidence that pointed them exactly where to go, or it could be someone with particular knowledge. likely a bit of each. Like I noted, NOW people are likely talking, but I never got the impression that one of his associates or "friends" led the police to him. The poster is free to express himself.
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