Doc Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The guy who thought it would be a good idea to draft AH is probably the same guy who thought signing Haynesworth and Ochocinco would be good ideas. Can you fire a relative? And BTW, the most requested exchange jersey over the weekend? Wes Welker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Someone should have shown the Pats* a copy of this report before the draft. They're the innocent victims in all of this. No one thought he was risk free or he would've been picked rounds earlier. They've said flat out they thought he was trending upwards and trying to make a commitment to getting better. Obviously problems were known if a letter conceding he'd give biweekly drug tests was warranted as a rookie. They've even said he talked the right game but sometimes seemed to struggle following through. Show me a "violent psychopath that could be prone to murder" report and ill agree there may have been foresight. As is I'm still thinking they expected the possibility of some bar fights, maybe drug use, or a DUI.... Maybe even the all too common weapons charge. Murder though? No, I believe Kraft when he says that wasnt expected. The guy also did a lot of charity, just got engaged, just had a baby... Lots of reasons, especially if he was talking the big game of "I'm ready to be a man," which both the team and some family report hearing, one wouldn't expect him to be a perfect citizen but wouldn't be weighing the risk of multiple homicide investigations within the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Killing someone isn't a sign of social immaturity. Buying bubble gum on camera before you kill someone, leaving a bubble gum wrapper in the rental car you used to transport the victim, and leaving the rental car keys in the victim's pockets after you kill him...THAT'S a pretty clear sign of social immaturity. Really, how do you get to be in your early 20s and not even know the basics of cleaning up evidence? I think they did a good job of hiding the evidence and cleaning it up. Before the Police found the "safehouse" they had nothing on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) I think they did a good job of hiding the evidence and cleaning it up. Before the Police found the "safehouse" they had nothing on him. Huh?? Nothing? They had texts from the victim (to his sister which essentially were a premonition of what would be his fate) and the perp (calling in his hit crew and luring in his victim), surveillance video of the perp in his house holding a gun before the crime, they had an eyewitness of the victim getting into a car rented by AH and video of AH driving the car and the car entering the murder scene and video of AH and others brandishing weapons in his house after the murder. They have shell casings (matching those at the murder scene) found in the rental car by a car rental employee who was offered a piece of blue Bubblicious gum upon AH's return of the car. All of this was before the apartment was searched (which happened the day he was arrested). And you think he did "a good job of hiding the evidence and cleaning it up" to that point? Edited July 10, 2013 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Regardless, the ACLU can and does go overboard sometimes...like the idiotic blog post KD linked. A blanket condemnation of solitary confinement without considering differing circumstances...so solitary is less humane than, say, getting shivved in the laundry by a rival gang member? The ACLU's at its best when it's actually defending civil liberties. When it's making stupid-ass generalizations, it starts to sound like PETA. Agreed. It's unfortunate they have to go for "sensationalism" in order to raise awareness of the really important stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I think they did a good job of hiding the evidence and cleaning it up. Before the Police found the "safehouse" they had nothing on him. You mean other than: - the keys in the victim's pocket that belong to a car rented in Hernandez's name - the bullet casing under the seat of said rental car - the surveillance video from the neighborhood that Lloyd was picked up from - the cell phone records with text messages placing Hernandez and Lloyd together the night of the murder - the surveillance video from Hernandez's security system that shows him entering the house 3 minutes after gunshots were heard etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 You mean other than: - the keys in the victim's pocket that belong to a car rented in Hernandez's name - the bullet casing under the seat of said rental car - the surveillance video from the neighborhood that Lloyd was picked up from - the cell phone records with text messages placing Hernandez and Lloyd together the night of the murder - the surveillance video from Hernandez's security system that shows him entering the house 3 minutes after gunshots were heard etc. Don't forget the eyewitnesses that have been chatty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I think they did a good job of hiding the evidence and cleaning it up. Before the Police found the "safehouse" they had nothing on him. Ummm ... what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 No, the above is stupidity. Social immaturity is buying blue cotton candy Bubblicious bubble gum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Don't see this here already but in case it is just ignore http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HERNANDEZ_POLICE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-09-19-08-31 Hernandez told associate he shot him (which I think would be hearsay but what do I know) The records say Hernandez associate Carlos Ortiz told Massachusetts investigators that another man, Ernest Wallace, said Hernandez shot Lloyd in an industrial park near Hernandez's home in North Attleborough.Documents also show that a vehicle wanted in a double killing in Boston a year before had been rented in Hernandez's name. Also was argumentative when police showed up at his door and shut it. Told his GF not to talk with them after she had a bit already. http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/Former_Patriots_TE_Aaron_Hernandez_charged_with_murder?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=wcvb&utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=wcvb%2Bchannel%2B5%2Bboston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Don't see this here already but in case it is just ignore http://hosted.ap.org...-07-09-19-08-31 Hernandez told associate he shot him (which I think would be hearsay but what do I know) Party admission -- exception to hearsay rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Party admission -- exception to hearsay rule Had to look that up, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Don't see this here already but in case it is just ignore http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HERNANDEZ_POLICE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-09-19-08-31 Hernandez told associate he shot him (which I think would be hearsay but what do I know) [/size] Also was argumentative when police showed up at his door and shut it. Told his GF not to talk with them after she had a bit already. http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/Former_Patriots_TE_Aaron_Hernandez_charged_with_murder?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=wcvb&utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=wcvb%2Bchannel%2B5%2Bboston id assume the first half, as a direct confession would be very admissable. theres not a more direct source for the information. the question the defense will somehow try to follow with is "so you say you know everything that happened and were present in the evening but exclude yourself from the one MAJOR moment and just stayed in the car, eh?" (fair or not) as far as being argumentative - yea, if a cop shows up for a murder investigation in my house im telling him im calling my lawyer and closing the door and telling everyone to shut up unless they have legal representation with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The second link also details the search warrants well towards the end (just in case you didn't read through it). Interesting stuff, includes a lot of details. id assume the first half, as a direct confession would be very admissable. theres not a more direct source for the information. the question the defense will somehow try to follow with is "so you say you know everything that happened and were present in the evening but exclude yourself from the one MAJOR moment and just stayed in the car, eh?" (fair or not) as far as being argumentative - yea, if a cop shows up for a murder investigation in my house im telling him im calling my lawyer and closing the door and telling everyone to shut up unless they have legal representation with them. Agree with you on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Party admission -- exception to hearsay rule How can what Wallace supposedly said to Ortiz not be deemed hearsay at this point? Edited July 10, 2013 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 How can what Wallace supposedly said to Ortiz not be deemed hearsay at this point? It's double hearsay - What AH told Wallace is an admission of a party opponent (meaning it falls outside the hearsay rule because AH is in Court to challenge the statement with his attorneys - i.e. the witness is available in court). Hearsay is an out of court statement made by the declarant offered to prove the truth of the matter in that statement. Since AH is in Court, that statement can be brought in but subject to cross examination. As far as the statement by Wallace to Ortiz - that would be hearsay if offered by Ortiz if AH is not tried in the same proceeding. It may fall under a different exception to the hearsay rule if AH is not involved in the same trial (i.e. if he is not a party opponent). For instance, you could get Wallace's statement in as an exception for motive, present sense impression, etc. It's not a cut and dry issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) How can what Wallace supposedly said to Ortiz not be deemed hearsay at this point? isnt this a direct from hernandez to ortiz comment? if not, yea they would likely have to go to wallace since he can be considered a direct source/witness as opposed to following a game of telephone until they get someone to talk. (edit: fergy seems to have gone far more in depth) Edited July 10, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 How can what Wallace supposedly said to Ortiz not be deemed hearsay at this point? If they were all together when Lloyd was shot, why would AH need to admit that he was the shooter? Wouldn't they already know? CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If they were all together when Lloyd was shot, why would AH need to admit that he was the shooter? Wouldn't they already know? CBF ones claiming he was in the car and was told after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 So they are somewhat near his house and 3 of them have to pee........oh yeah, I buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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