NoSaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Of course there is a lawsuit as no one is accountable for their own actions. Chances are this will be settled out of court with no admittance of guilt as it will be undoubtedly cheaper to settle then go through a long drawn out court case that could cost millions... theres a reason society has things like liquor licenses and responsible vendor certifications - its because when you are distributing something that inhibits ones ability to make reasonable decisions, you take on a certain responsibility to help make sure they dont cross lines without their own good mind in tact. likewise medical and legal personnel are considered mandatory reporters for a variety of instances where someone is out of control to handle making their own decisions. this could also fall under that umbrella. that said, the family using the early argument that he was totally fine when they left him minutes before getting kicked out makes that far less believable an avenue to travel down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 What didn't go down the way it was reported, can you speak on that? The evening of the death or the decision to sue? the evening of the death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 They have 57.8 million reasons to sue.also I like to add its not about the money. It is all about the money. Can't babysit everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Solution is for a 1:10 ratio of police to patrons (including those in parking lots not attending game) carrying breath analyzers and escorting patrons to designated 'safe' area and if necessary putting patrons in padded straight jackets to ensure they do not accidentally hurt themselves. Either that or personal responsibility for getting drunk, whatever is simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Solution is for a 1:10 ratio of police to patrons (including those in parking lots not attending game) carrying breath analyzers and escorting patrons to designated 'safe' area and if necessary putting patrons in padded straight jackets to ensure they do not accidentally hurt themselves. Either that or personal responsibility for getting drunk, whatever is simpler. yup - nothing in between. if security takes you from your seat for being fall down drunk, they hold no obligation beyond throwing you far enough outside the gate that you dont get in anyones way. they certainly dont have some sort of holding cell or medical professionals that they would be expected to put to use. not implying thats the case here, but the attitude towards alcohol has always been a thing that irked me. likewise it doesnt have to be a dry stadium, or anything goes keep your kids at home mess - it just seems like people go radically extreme as soon as booze and personal responsibility enter the same sentence. drunk or sober, there are people that are supposed to help you get home safe at an event like this. if they short changed him on that duty, then the family has a fair discussion here - if they provided reasonable services then its very possible there was nothing they couldve done. Edited June 21, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 yup - nothing in between. if security takes you from your seat for being fall down drunk, they hold no obligation beyond throwing you far enough outside the gate that you dont get in anyones way. they certainly dont have some sort of holding cell or medical professionals that they would be expected to put to use. Ummm, yes they do. There is a small holding cell in one of the security stations and a small, maybe 8-10 bed, medical center at the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 yup - nothing in between. if security takes you from your seat for being fall down drunk, they hold no obligation beyond throwing you far enough outside the gate that you dont get in anyones way. they certainly dont have some sort of holding cell or medical professionals that they would be expected to put to use. not implying thats the case here, but the attitude towards alcohol has always been a thing that irked me. likewise it doesnt have to be a dry stadium, or anything goes keep your kids at home mess - it just seems like people go radically extreme as soon as booze and personal responsibility enter the same sentence. drunk or sober, there are people that are supposed to help you get home safe at an event like this. if they short changed him on that duty, then the family has a fair discussion here - if they provided reasonable services then its very possible there was nothing they couldve done. What a ridiculous notion. I know I don't want to leave it in the hands of a rent a cop whether I'm able to survive outside of the Stadium on my own. How absurd have we become that we're debating letting a security guard render judgment on whether we can take care of ourselves. If you're acting stupid then there is NO - ZERO - responbility on the security guards than to politely escort you to the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 This is going to be a lot of nothing when its all said and done. Some ambulance chaser convinced the family they have a suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) What a ridiculous notion. I know I don't want to leave it in the hands of a rent a cop whether I'm able to survive outside of the Stadium on my own. How absurd have we become that we're debating letting a security guard render judgment on whether we can take care of ourselves. If you're acting stupid then there is NO - ZERO - responbility on the security guards than to politely escort you to the door. that my friend is why they should be trained to hand you off to the police or medical professionals if there is a worry there. if there wasnt a worry and you can happily walk yourself away no threat to yourself or the public then they dont hold any liability and the lawsuit goes nowhere. to say theres absolutely no duty of care for a facility serving alcoholic beverages is the crazy thing, really. Edited June 21, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) If a bar serves a noticeably intoxicated person and that person dies and/or causes another person to die, then the bar can be sued. It has been like that for a very long time. This in theory is no different. If the family can prove this happened at the Ralph then I would think they have a case. I don't know what, if any, responsibility the establishment has other than not serving the person. Edited June 21, 2013 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) If a bar serves a noticeably intoxicated person and that person dies and/or causes another person to die, then the bar can be sued. It has been like that for a very long time. This in theory is no different. If the family can prove this happened at the Ralph then I would think they have a case. I don't know what, if any, responsibility the establishment has other than not serving the person. id imagine being a county facility serving alcohol, with trained medical and police personnel on staff in house, theres likely a higher duty of care expected because of the ease of access to it and the control had over the situation. that doesnt mean get drunk go crazy and blame them for everything that happens, but theres a balance to be had. when you serve someone a substance that increases their chances to make bad decisions, you also increase the liability you have for that persons potentially bad decisions. that doesnt mean the drunk person is blameless either though. our laws pretty consistently acknowledge that its a gray area and not 100% one party or the other but that the host owes a basic level of making an honest effort to care for your patrons (and it clearly does not excuse the drunk person of their actions, but you may be culpable of helping propel them onto that course). no idea if that was made in this case, or even relevant as his family originally insisted he was sober and thats even without the mysterious comments by mrags. Edited June 21, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 A few things: -They do have holding cells -the security staff (many of them) are off duty law enforcement. Sheriffs, corrections officers, police and many of them have the ability, and have arrested many drunk fans. (Inside information) -the drunk tanks are completely overflowing in Sundays. -this family may have a case die to the (if an intoxicated person was served at xxx establishment and then hurt himself or others) argument. But this case makes me sick. The fact that the family is trying to sue the Bills is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey98277 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) If the plaintiff was completely black out drunk and any reasonable person could see that, it could be considered negligence for someone in a position of power, be it a security guard or a member of the medical staff, to let that person out into the cold under their own volition. While I recognize the importance of championing accountability, if the facts indicate that this kid was totally out of it, their is an argument for shifting some of the liability for his death over to the cognizant individuals who decided where he'd go. What about the family he was with, they have no accountability, just the people who cut him off and sent him packing because of his poor judgment he must have showed when asked to leave. Not to mention this happened 3 hours after the fact. Where if he was drunk enough to do that 3 hrs sober then......well chances are he was probably continuing to drink past his ejection.... What else could they do put him in stadium jail till the morning for every drunk person at the game, they stop serving way before the game is over. This point of view sounds like your a lawyer. Edited June 21, 2013 by mikey98277 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Added to that Saint, there is absolutely no way he was sober. He was kicked out for drunken stupidity. That's about all I'd like to say about it in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Added to that Saint, there is absolutely no way he was sober. He was kicked out for drunken stupidity. That's about all I'd like to say about it in here. i mean, really, i assumed about as much as its odd to be kicked out for being drunk if you are casually watching the game and might have had a beer or two - as the family originally pushed. he has taken full responsibility for his actions by becoming good and dead as a consequence (though if alive hed be responsible for any crimes etc... that wouldve occured) but if he was overserved, or too casually disposed of when the incident happened its very possible someone else has a bit of culpability. with a 3 hour gap that becomes a lot harder to prove.... but i guess thats what the courts are there for, to help establish what happened and where that line falls. just because they sued doesnt mean the stadium did anything wrong. just because he was drunk doesnt mean theres no one else on the hook either. ill be curious to see the details on this, as it seemed strange at the time it was unfolding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 The original Buffalo News report: http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121116/CITYANDREGION/121119402/1002 Recall that after he was ejected, he called his brother who was still inside the stadium. The deceased was asked by his brother if he wanted to be joined outside the stadium and the deceased responded, "No, we'll meet after the game at Tailgaters." One question in my mind is whether he resumed drinking after being ejected from the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Where is the lawsuit against the brother who did not leave the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Where is the lawsuit against the brother who did not leave the game? thats where it really gets interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 thats where it really gets interesting. Now you really have me curious about what you've heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 thats where it really gets interesting. Oh come on man...you can't be blatantly provocative like that if you have no intention of sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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