Charles Romes Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Ray was embarrassingly slow his last season, I would have felt bad for him but lying to police in a murder investigation is kind of unforgivable. He was definitely a great leader, just a poor player. In his prime he was amazing. I think the Ravens would have been a better team with Ray on the sideline doing his cheerleading thing and a young guy that could cover AND tackle out there. I must have been seeing something different when it looked like him all over the field in the AFC playoffs last year
bills44 Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Based on the fans point of view, if have to say its a VERY close toe between Freddy and K. Williams. Both were good, no great but good for a few years, but both are getting too old to produce and continue to stay healthy. Both have had some tough seasons, mauled by injuries, yet fans still think these guys are somehow relevant in the NFL. They aren't. They aren't even relevant on this team anymore. i think Chan and his "winded" comments ruined what people think of CJ. Chan really hindered his ability and playing time last year. I specifically remember the Miami game on Thursday night. CJ almost single handedly took the offense from 20 to 20. As soon as they get into the red zone, Chan pulls him out. Pretty sure there was 12 plays in the red zone and CJ wasn't in for a single play. I wanted to throw up. Agreed on all points.
Gugny Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 Based on the fans point of view, if have to say its a VERY close toe between Freddy and K. Williams. Both were good, no great but good for a few years, but both are getting too old to produce and continue to stay healthy. Both have had some tough seasons, mauled by injuries, yet fans still think these guys are somehow relevant in the NFL. They aren't. They aren't even relevant on this team anymore. i think Chan and his "winded" comments ruined what people think of CJ. Chan really hindered his ability and playing time last year. I specifically remember the Miami game on Thursday night. CJ almost single handedly took the offense from 20 to 20. As soon as they get into the red zone, Chan pulls him out. Pretty sure there was 12 plays in the red zone and CJ wasn't in for a single play. I wanted to throw up. I also said Fred, and I stick by it. I never really thought of him as irrelevant, but I'm leaning toward agreeing with you. I am one of the people who has come down on Spiller for taking so many breaks. I'm not convinced it was Gailey, but we'll definitely find out this season. I love Fred Jackson as a Bill and I'm glad he's on the team. I thought they were stupid for giving him so much money, and I still do - but he's here and I'm glad. I just think the praise he gets from fans is unwarranted - hence his overratedness. Yup. New word. Embrace it.
BuffOrange Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Today: K Williams/M Dareus: At least until they prove they can start controlling the middle and stopping the run. Until very recently: Tavaris Jackson. He is a terrible QB; it's laughable how many people were bent out of shape that he never played. All-time: Roscoe Parrish. The love affair wtih an above-average punt returner who never did sh-- as a WR is still beyond comprehension. I'm with you on the DT's. I know our LB's suck - maybe/probably the worst in the league. But do they suck so bad that they don't belong on a D1 college football field? Because that's about how much they would have to suck for our interior line to be as good as advertised and be as bad as they've been vs the run the last few years. Roscoe all-time is insane. As 2000's WR's go Josh Reed had a lot more fanboys - I remember when people here were thinking we could get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him; which was laughable at any point in his career except for maybe after the 1st couple games of his rookie year when his value peaked.
K-9 Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) I'm with you on the DT's. I know our LB's suck - maybe/probably the worst in the league. But do they suck so bad that they don't belong on a D1 college football field? Because that's about how much they would have to suck for our interior line to be as good as advertised and be as bad as they've been vs the run the last few years. Roscoe all-time is insane. As 2000's WR's go Josh Reed had a lot more fanboys - I remember when people here were thinking we could get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him; which was laughable at any point in his career except for maybe after the 1st couple games of his rookie year when his value peaked. Yes, they sucked that bad. The college reference really isn't fair because they would have equally less talented offensive players at that level to neutralize them. When you have gap-penetrating DTs that are good at it, and ours are very good at it, the linebackers MUST get to their gaps. They've been pitifully slow or just plain over-aggressive. LBs, despite everyone's misguided notion that they must be "clean" and pure as the driven snow in order to make tackles, HAVE to shed blocks much of the time. Ours couldn't do that very well. Slow, weak, and over-aggressive are bad ingredients for linebackers. That pretty much describes ours the last few years. By far the worst position group on the team and one of the worst groups I've seen in a long time in the league. GO BILLS!!! Edited June 25, 2013 by K-9
BuffOrange Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Yes, they sucked that bad. The college reference really isn't fair because they would have equally less talented offensive players at that level to neutralize them. When you have gap-penetrating DTs that are good at it, and ours are very good at it, the linebackers MUST get to their gaps. They've been pitifully slow or just plain over-aggressive. LBs, despite everyone's misguided notion that they must be "clean" and pure as the driven snow in order to make tackles, HAVE to shed blocks much of the time. Ours couldn't do that very well. Slow, weak, and over-aggressive are bad ingredients for linebackers. That pretty much describes ours the last few years. By far the worst position group on the team and one of the worst groups I've seen in a long time in the league. GO BILLS!!! Tough to argue with most of that. I mean I'm not going to defend the LB's because it's impossible to do so. But I think almost every team puts a much bigger emphasis on linemen for a reason. Look at our group under Wade that was pretty mediocre other than Cowart & almost impossible to run on...Minnesota whose run defense has steadily declined the last few yrs as the Williams Wall has aged, etc. It just seems like A- line plus D- LB's ought to at least equal average and it hasn't. I am not completely closed off to the theory that the current LB core is actually an F- ie one of the worst the NFL has ever seen and therefore the current Bills are an exception to the rule that run defense is primarily correlated with line play. Hopefully we get some league average players at LB some day soon behind Darius/Kyle & we become an elite run-stuffing unit to validate that notion. But in the meantime I gotta sign off on overrated. JMO.
Baba Booey Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Brad Smith, can't understand why he is on the team still. I want all youth at the WR position. Honarable Mention: Bryan Scott, needs to be let go.
eball Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 It's impossible for the answer to this question NOT to be Mario -- and that's partially, but not totally, his fault. The guy had an unbelievable amount of pressure on him and still, by the end of the season, put up respectable numbers. Of course, those numbers fell short of expectations, and given the hoopla surrounding his arrival that makes him overrated. It doesn't help that he blamed a mysterious injury for early season issues and has sullied his reputation with this ridiculous engagement ring nonsense. On the plus side, we know Wannstedt didn't try to do anything scheme-wise to help Mario, and he certainly didn't play "poorly." I have high hopes for 2013, but at this point in time the verdict has to be overrated.
K-9 Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Tough to argue with most of that. I mean I'm not going to defend the LB's because it's impossible to do so. But I think almost every team puts a much bigger emphasis on linemen for a reason. Look at our group under Wade that was pretty mediocre other than Cowart & almost impossible to run on...Minnesota whose run defense has steadily declined the last few yrs as the Williams Wall has aged, etc. It just seems like A- line plus D- LB's ought to at least equal average and it hasn't. I am not completely closed off to the theory that the current LB core is actually an F- ie one of the worst the NFL has ever seen and therefore the current Bills are an exception to the rule that run defense is primarily correlated with line play. Hopefully we get some league average players at LB some day soon behind Darius/Kyle & we become an elite run-stuffing unit to validate that notion. But in the meantime I gotta sign off on overrated. JMO. I understand and I'd agree with the assessment on our DTs if I was constantly seeing them getting pushed back. They typically don't. They either hold their ground or penetrate. I can't excuse our poor RDE play, either. When your DT is going to shoot a gap, that DE must play his technique perfectly. Needless to say ours didn't, at least to the right side of our defense last year. Mario played the run as well as it can be played. His corner was solid. Moore was abysmal and Merriman was actually OK when his body allowed him to be. I think our MLBs will bring a ton of youthful athleticism to the position but I know they're gonna screw the pooch as well. I look for our edges to be improved so there is gonna be pressure on them to perform consistently. While there's a lot to like about them, I'm willing to be patient early on while they catch on. On the bright side, there's no way in hell we can be worse....right? GO BILLS!!! It's impossible for the answer to this question NOT to be Mario -- and that's partially, but not totally, his fault. The guy had an unbelievable amount of pressure on him and still, by the end of the season, put up respectable numbers. Of course, those numbers fell short of expectations, and given the hoopla surrounding his arrival that makes him overrated. It doesn't help that he blamed a mysterious injury for early season issues and has sullied his reputation with this ridiculous engagement ring nonsense. On the plus side, we know Wannstedt didn't try to do anything scheme-wise to help Mario, and he certainly didn't play "poorly." I have high hopes for 2013, but at this point in time the verdict has to be overrated. Can't disagree more with this statement. He played his postion very well last seaon, especially after getting healthy and especially against the run. His injury was anyting but mysterious. It was obvious to many observers that he was playing without the use of one arm the early part of the season. Hand play is vitally important to DLmen and he just wasn't getting the leverage required. But that changed as he got healthier. The contract, his mental state, and all the other stuff just have no relevance when critiquing his play. Simply put, from what I saw week in and week out more often than not, he was better at his position than anyone else on our defense last year. And that includes Byrd. GO BILLS!!! Edited June 25, 2013 by K-9
bills1960 Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) It'd have to be Kyle Williams, unfortunately. He can dominated a game but then disappear the next. So he gets his praise based on those games where he does do well, but is forgotten about when they implode for whatever reason, those games are just as much his fault as they are our weak linebackers'. I'd say Brad Smith, but I think everyone except our front office believes he isn't any good, thus not being overrated. Edited June 25, 2013 by bills1960
Ralph W. Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Kevin Kolbpatrick or Kevin Fitzkolb whichever way it's pronounced.
J-E-T-S-L-O-L Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 At some point you should google his career numbers vs. London Fletcher's...they are really close London Fletcher is 230 solotackles, 4,5 sacks, 7 FR, 8 INTs, 340 INT return yards, 1 TD, and 30 PDs behind. Despite having played 12 games more then Ray Lewis. Really not that close.
Nanker Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 London Fletcher is 230 solotackles, 4,5 sacks, 7 FR, 8 INTs, 340 INT return yards, 1 TD, and 30 PDs behind. Despite having played 12 games more then Ray Lewis. Really not that close. No. London has 4 more PDs than Ray. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LewiRa00.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FletLo20.htm And London has 1 more FR for a TD, 108 more Tackle Assists, and 1 more Safety than Ray. Ray played two more years than London too, never missed a game while Lewis missed at least 39 games in his career. You can argue that Lewis was more explosive and dynamic - kinda like the Gronkowski kid in NewenGland* - but he missed a lot of games. London wasn't used in the same way that Ray was. I think they're pretty close in many respects. Gronk probably won't get into the HOF. Lewis will. London will have to wait a while, but he should get in.
J-E-T-S-L-O-L Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 No. London has 4 more PDs than Ray. http://www.pro-footb.../L/LewiRa00.htm http://www.pro-footb.../F/FletLo20.htm ESPN has Lewis listed with 119 PDs to Fletchers 90. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/964/ray-lewis http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/1680/london-fletcher Either way Fletcher still comes up short, in just about every cathegory despite starting only 3 fewer games, and playing in 12 more. London Fletcher has 84% of the solo tackles, 94% of the combined tackles, 74% of the INTs, 89% of the sacks, PDs are either close(Fletcher by 5%) or Fletcher has 75% depending on the statsite you use, 68% of the total takeaways and 41% of the TO-return yards. And if you combine big plays like sacks, INTs, SFTY,FF,FR, etc. London Fletcher only has 62%. Fletcher has 94% of the tackles and 62% of the big plays. Not really that close. London-Fletcher would have to play another 9 years to have as many big plays as Ray Lewis.
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