Eric Moulds was on Sirius radio today.

[KD in CA]

I feel the same way about Moulds. I think he's the best player to put on a Bills uniform from 1998 to present. the only member of the Bills since 98 who was arguably among the top 3 at his position as a Bill (unless we are counting a punter)

 

Hands down.

[NoName]

Most overrated Buffalo Bill ever.

 

He was absolutely unreal in 1998. After that, he quickly began to lose quickness and speed and declined. By 2002 he was really having a hard time getting open and he never had anything more than average hands. Bledsoe was fantastic that year and Moulds put up good numbers with an array of weapons helping open things up, but Moulds was a shadow of that WR he had been in 1998.

 

Not to mention the fact that he mailed-in his first 2 seasons because he was too busy getting his freak on and slappin' his women in Buffalo around, dodging his child support payments in Mississippi and generally keeping the Bills legal counsel occupied.

 

There are a lot of Bills fans who were children when Moulds was in his brief prime and I understand that looking thru the eyes of a 9 year old Bills fan Moulds was the man......but other than 1998 he was not one of the elite WR in the NFL. Not even that close either.

 

I literally can't think of even ONE acrobatic grab he ever made as a receiver and as time wore on his RAC yards became non-existent. The Bills QB play declined significantly after 2002 but by 2003 he was ailing and practically every throw to him was up for grabs because he just couldn't separate. He would come back to a ball, catch it and then turn around and try to put these moves on the db that he didn't seem to realize were in slow motion. His feet just got slow.

 

I will say this though, he once caught a ball, then turned around and flattened Phillip Buchanon with a stiff arm and stepped on his neck as he trucked over him and that was one of the better plays I saw from a Buffalo Bill in the decade of the 2000's.

 

Most overrated Bill ever?????

 

Honestly, when you reference things like child support and slapping butts and stuff, it seems like your feelings about him as a player might be skewed by personal stuff.

 

As a Buffalo Bill football player I can tell you this. When that ball went up in the air to number 80, I knew we were getting the ball in the hands of our best player. No body and I mean no body snatched that ball down with more of a mean streak than this guy. And after he got that ball, watch out. Like the other poster mentioned, I do recall him complaining about flags a little too much. He was not a leaper at all. I can remember him getting forced fed a couple of lobs in the end zone and that didn't work out to well. I think the feeling is that since he was big, he was a leaper and that he wasn't.

 

The guy had speed. I don't care what his 40 time was he got behind people often. Heck I remember Leavy giving Moulds really high praise on his speed. The guy had very good hands. Excellent route runner. But he was nasty as hell on the field.

 

Question for you. Post super bowl era, name a better Buffalo Bill at his position better than Eric Moulds? FYI, I would rate Antoine Winfield as the second best Bill post super bowl era.

 

Lastly.....let's not forget who was throwing to him......the one year wonder Flutie. the half season wonder Bledsoe (during his Bills tenure), J.P. Losman, Alex Van Pelt, Rob JOhnson, Kelly Holcomb. I mean give me a break. Just ask Larry Fitzgerald the importance of having a quality QB throwing the ball.

[Gordio]

Most overrated Bill ever?????

 

Honestly, when you reference things like child support and slapping butts and stuff, it seems like your feelings about him as a player might be skewed by personal stuff.

 

As a Buffalo Bill football player I can tell you this. When that ball went up in the air to number 80, I knew we were getting the ball in the hands of our best player. No body and I mean no body snatched that ball down with more of a mean streak than this guy. And after he got that ball, watch out. Like the other poster mentioned, I do recall him complaining about flags a little too much. He was not a leaper at all. I can remember him getting forced fed a couple of lobs in the end zone and that didn't work out to well. I think the feeling is that since he was big, he was a leaper and that he wasn't.

 

The guy had speed. I don't care what his 40 time was he got behind people often. Heck I remember Leavy giving Moulds really high praise on his speed. The guy had very good hands. Excellent route runner. But he was nasty as hell on the field.

 

Question for you. Post super bowl era, name a better Buffalo Bill at his position better than Eric Moulds? FYI, I would rate Antoine Winfield as the second best Bill post super bowl era.

 

Lastly.....let's not forget who was throwing to him......the one year wonder Flutie. the half season wonder Bledsoe (during his Bills tenure), J.P. Losman, Alex Van Pelt, Rob JOhnson, Kelly Holcomb. I mean give me a break. Just ask Larry Fitzgerald the importance of having a quality QB throwing the ball.

 

Well said, I don't know what Baldo's beef is with Moulds. Maybe he is one of his illigitimate bastard kids that got sick of getting stiffed on their birthday & Christmas from the man. But as far as alltime great Bills receivers go, I will put him slgihtly & I mean slightly behind #83 as an alltime great. If he has a QB like Kelly throwing to him for most of his career he is in the hall of fame imo.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Gordio

[KD in CA]

Well said, I don't know what Baldo's beef is with Moulds. Maybe he is one of his illigitimate bastard kids that got sick of getting stiffed on their birthday & Christmas from the man. But as far as alltime great Bills receivers go, I will put him slgihtly & I mean slightly behind #83 as an alltime great. If he has a QB like Kelly throwing to him for most of his career he is in the hall of fame imo.

Bingo. Moulds is #32 all time in receptions and #40 all time in receiving yards which is pretty damn impressive considering who was throwing him the ball most of his career.

 

Here's a list of some pretty good football players who rank behind Moulds in career receiving yards:

 

 

Drew Hil

Rob Moore

Herman Moore

Charley Taylor

Harold Carmichael

Mark Clayton

Fred Biletnikoff

Roy Green

Mark Duper

John Stallworth

Cliff Branch

 

And behind him in career receptions:

Charlie Joiner

Michael Irvin

Andre Rison

Herman Moore

Ozzie Newsome

Charley Taylor

Drew Hill

Don Maynard

Rob Moore

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I remember one time that Terrell Owens was asked during the height of his career that if he were to assemble a team what players would be choose and Moulds was the first WR of choice for him. At the time that was a pretty big compliment coming from T.O. #80 will always be one of my all time Bills.

 

Speaking of compliments, I remember Jerry Rice talking with some media outlet who was gushing over him being the best receiver in the game, and he said Andre Reed was the best in the game (at that time). Reeds RAC was the best, Rice was excellent to, but Reed was the best. And it was great of Jerry to say that - especially with Reed still knock, knock, knockin' on Canton's door!

[enlightener]

He was not a leaper at all. I can remember him getting forced fed a couple of lobs in the end zone and that didn't work out to well. I think the feeling is that since he was big, he was a leaper and that he wasn't.

.

 

he was a leaper, he had great hands especially while twisted and airborne and would come down with some circus grabs. He also knocked down a hail mary once as he went over the top of tony gonzalez to win a game for us ( he was on D ).

 

He did knock down alot of people after the catch and took it to the house. He was "fast" but a 4.5 fast that looked faster because he would just get open deep alot and actually make the catch in stride (no leap required) this was in his first 7 years, not so much in the last 4.

 

Moulds was the all around best WR weve had in the last 25 years incuding Reed. Its close and Reed was more consistent and has more numbers. but comparing just ability It was actually Reed who wasnt much of a leaper. Moulds was as fast as Reed but a bit stronger and didnt play with super bowl teams and all pro's.

 

whats funny is moulds was as elusive as stevie, could catch the deep ball like Lee, had muscles, RAC yards and hands like Reed...He had the best of all our favorite receivers in one package....I guess he just got too big, it shocked me when we cut him and made Lee our number 1, they would have been great together had Moulds kept his weight down.

Edited June 19, 2013 by enlightener

[dave mcbride]

he was a leaper, he had great hands especially while twisted and airborne and would come down with some circus grabs. He also knocked down a hail mary once as he went over the top of tony gonzalez to win a game for us ( he was on D ).

 

He did knock down alot of people after the catch and took it to the house. He was "fast" but a 4.5 fast that looked faster because he would just get open deep alot and actually make the catch in stride (no leap required) this was in his first 7 years, not so much in the last 4.

 

Moulds was the all around best WR weve had in the last 25 years incuding Reed. Its close and Reed was more consistent and has more numbers. but comparing just ability It was actually Reed who wasnt much of a leaper. Moulds was as fast as Reed but a bit stronger and didnt play with super bowl teams and all pro's.

 

whats funny is moulds was as elusive as stevie, could catch the deep ball like Lee, had muscles, RAC yards and hands like Reed...He had the best of all our favorite receivers in one package....I guess he just got too big, it shocked me when we cut him and made Lee our number 1, they would have been great together had Moulds kept his weight down.

For the record, in his prime he was an excellent jumper.

[BADOLBILZ]

Most overrated Bill ever?????

 

Honestly, when you reference things like child support and slapping butts and stuff, it seems like your feelings about him as a player might be skewed by personal stuff.

 

As a Buffalo Bill football player I can tell you this. When that ball went up in the air to number 80, I knew we were getting the ball in the hands of our best player. No body and I mean no body snatched that ball down with more of a mean streak than this guy. And after he got that ball, watch out. Like the other poster mentioned, I do recall him complaining about flags a little too much. He was not a leaper at all. I can remember him getting forced fed a couple of lobs in the end zone and that didn't work out to well. I think the feeling is that since he was big, he was a leaper and that he wasn't.

 

The guy had speed. I don't care what his 40 time was he got behind people often. Heck I remember Leavy giving Moulds really high praise on his speed. The guy had very good hands. Excellent route runner. But he was nasty as hell on the field.

 

Question for you. Post super bowl era, name a better Buffalo Bill at his position better than Eric Moulds? FYI, I would rate Antoine Winfield as the second best Bill post super bowl era.

 

Lastly.....let's not forget who was throwing to him......the one year wonder Flutie. the half season wonder Bledsoe (during his Bills tenure), J.P. Losman, Alex Van Pelt, Rob JOhnson, Kelly Holcomb. I mean give me a break. Just ask Larry Fitzgerald the importance of having a quality QB throwing the ball.

 

Slappin' butts? You really don't know what he did, do you?

 

Well said, I don't know what Baldo's beef is with Moulds. Maybe he is one of his illigitimate bastard kids that got sick of getting stiffed on their birthday & Christmas from the man. But as far as alltime great Bills receivers go, I will put him slgihtly & I mean slightly behind #83 as an alltime great. If he has a QB like Kelly throwing to him for most of his career he is in the hall of fame imo.

 

Let's see, you just insulted bald guys and kids who grew up without dads in your post. You covered about 2/3 of the TBD community in one swoop. Way to make your point.

 

whats funny is moulds was as elusive as stevie, could catch the deep ball like Lee, had muscles, RAC yards and hands like Reed...He had the best of all our favorite receivers in one package....I guess he just got too big, it shocked me when we cut him and made Lee our number 1, they would have been great together had Moulds kept his weight down.

 

This is exactly the kind of rose colored memory that I am talking about. Moulds was nothing like Stevie as a receiver. Stevie is always open. Moulds got deep because he went deep A LOT. But that part of his game consistently declined each year. And no, he didn't get dealt because he was too big.....he was old and slow. He started having leg problems in 1999 and it slowed him down. Just look at his YPC.

Edited June 20, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[NoName]

Slappin' butts? You really don't know what he did, do you?

 

 

 

Let's see, you just insulted bald guys and kids who grew up without dads in your post. You covered about 2/3 of the TBD community in one swoop. Way to make your point.

 

 

 

This is exactly the kind of rose colored memory that I am talking about. Moulds was nothing like Stevie as a receiver. Stevie is always open. Moulds got deep because he went deep A LOT. But that part of his game consistently declined each year. And no, he didn't get cut because he was too big.....he was old and slow. He started having leg problems in 1999 and it slowed him down. Just look at his YPC.

 

Sounds like you have a very biased view of Moulds. I didn't view Moulds as leaper. I stand corrected. i will say this, I dont think he was the type of red zone threat that you just lob the ball up there and he grabs it. I just didn't see it and I saw every game he played in a Bills uniform.

 

Stevie is always open???????? Confusing that you would say that. Steive certainly does a great job getting open of the line. But he has some difficulty getting separated. Stevie is a legit 1 receiver but he is not in the class of E Moulds. let's just get that straight.

[BADOLBILZ]

Bingo. Moulds is #32 all time in receptions and #40 all time in receiving yards which is pretty damn impressive considering who was throwing him the ball most of his career.

 

Here's a list of some pretty good football players who rank behind Moulds in career receiving yards:

 

 

Drew Hil

Rob Moore

Herman Moore

Charley Taylor

Harold Carmichael

Mark Clayton

Fred Biletnikoff

Roy Green

Mark Duper

John Stallworth

Cliff Branch

 

And behind him in career receptions:

Charlie Joiner

Michael Irvin

Andre Rison

Herman Moore

Ozzie Newsome

Charley Taylor

Drew Hill

Don Maynard

Rob Moore

 

I never said Moulds was bad, just very overrated. You didn't have to invoke the ghost of players from the 60's and 70's, tight ends......and of course the immortal Rob Moore, to make your point. There were a handful of pass happy teams in the 1980's but it wasn't until the 1990's when most of the league decided they just had to adopt the WCO that passing numbers started to explode. Moulds was in that era. The Bills of Moulds career were more pass happy than the Bills of Jim Kelly/Andre Reed fame. Those Kelly teams lead the NFL in rushing on multiple occasions so the people who think that playing with Jim Kelly would have meant greater stats don't really know their Bills history.

[BADOLBILZ]

Sounds like you have a very biased view of Moulds. I didn't view Moulds as leaper. I stand corrected. i will say this, I dont think he was the type of red zone threat that you just lob the ball up there and he grabs it. I just didn't see it and I saw every game he played in a Bills uniform.

 

Stevie is always open???????? Confusing that you would say that. Steive certainly does a great job getting open of the line. But he has some difficulty getting separated. Stevie is a legit 1 receiver but he is not in the class of E Moulds. let's just get that straight.

 

My issue with you is that you don't know Moulds past. He wasn't in court for slappin' that woman's behind. And yeah, Stevie has a knack for getting open. This is not news. Ask Revis.

[BADOLBILZ]

Moulds was bigger & stronger than both Stevie and Lee. Lee was a speedster with good hands but not great underneath. Stevie is deceptive, elusive and great underneath - but not a super talented deep threat. And as I recall, Moulds had better hands than Johnson. Moulds, in his prime, was more well-rounded than either Stevie or Lee.

 

Moulds, IMHO, is the best Bills WR post- Andre. If Moulds had played in Reed's spot on the early 90s Bills, he would have produced similar numbers and received similar accolades.

 

What amazes me is how people short-change Andre Reed. He was a far better route-runner than Moulds and that's what made him such a force in the short passing game. He was one of the original RAC guys. Moulds was powerful and could jump(yes he couid, he was a division 1 SEC basketball recruit) but he was not smooth or quick and his hands were not great. His RAC game declined quickly. Moulds took a bunch of shorter throws thru traffic and to the house in 1998 but that part of his game was never a strength after that. All his big plays were over the top after that. He wasn't really cut out to be a WCO receiver. He fit best with Flutie because they were both unconventional. As I said earlier, Rob Johnson was like Trent Edwards in that he was hesitant to throw the ball to receivers that weren't open and that was a problem because Moulds really had to work to separate.

[Buftex]

What amazes me is how people short-change Andre Reed. He was a far better route-runner than Moulds and that's what made him such a force in the short passing game. He was one of the original RAC guys. Moulds was powerful and could jump(yes he couid, he was a division 1 SEC basketball recruit) but he was not smooth or quick and his hands were not great. His RAC game declined quickly. Moulds took a bunch of shorter throws thru traffic and to the house in 1998 but that part of his game was never a strength after that. All his big plays were over the top after that. He wasn't really cut out to be a WCO receiver. He fit best with Flutie because they were both unconventional. As I said earlier, Rob Johnson was like Trent Edwards in that he was hesitant to throw the ball to receivers that weren't open and that was a problem because Moulds really had to work to separate.

 

Short-changing Andre Reed has been a very popular past-time on TSW for a while...

[Tipster19]

Moulds took a bunch of shorter throws thru traffic and to the house in 1998 but that part of his game was never a strength after that. All his big plays were over the top after that. He wasn't really cut out to be a WCO receiver. He fit best with Flutie because they were both unconventional.

 

This is almost comical. What is it that you want or looking for out of a WR??! Moulds was a beast on the field PERIOD. I've read your argument about Moulds being overrated over and over, and to be honest with you, it's tiresome. When I posted this thread it was all about his sentiment about him being a Buffalo Bill and how much it was appreciated. I must have made a mistake in saying that the guy was a great player because you can't harp enough about how much he is overrated. Are you for real??! Numbers and stats don't lie, you act like 14+ yds per catch is average for a season. Furthermore I don't care what numbers and stats show, I watch him play, the guy was a baller! If you wanted to say that at the end of his career as a Bill the guy was looking for a flag more than the ball I could give you that and that spitting in a DB's face and slapping women around wasn't very cool or classy I could understand that but that was not what this thread was about. Instead you just want to continuously go on and on about discrediting his ability as a player, like you think that you're really going to win over the masses of Bills' fans into thinking this guy couldn't play the game of football. Boy, we sure must of really blown a 1st rd pick on this guy! Get real! I don't know what this guy has done as a player to really piss you off like this but your arguments are getting weaker with each response that you post. Start another post about his poor character and I might even join you in this opinion but as far as a player it might be time to give up this crusade.

[enlightener]

This is exactly the kind of rose colored memory that I am talking about. Moulds was nothing like Stevie as a receiver. Stevie is always open. Moulds got deep because he went deep A LOT. But that part of his game consistently declined each year. And no, he didn't get dealt because he was too big.....he was old and slow. He started having leg problems in 1999 and it slowed him down. Just look at his YPC.

 

yes moulds was nothing like stevie, he made game winning catches, not drops, he could go deep and underneath, he would catch kickoffs over his head like an outfielder and do kick returns, he would out muscle anyone on the field(, including revis had they played eachother,) had good YPC until 2004, could crack 1200 and even 1300 yards in a season, (not barely get a 1000), he had 20 ypc, 15 ypc and 14 ypg in the same three career yearss that SJ kept getting 13s. So it took 4 years for moulds to "decline" to where SJ is at his best. Also moulds didnt spend his best seasons showboating constantly. You are right, they are absolutely nothing alike aside from the fact that moulds could take a 5 yard slant just as far as stevie.

 

Why not spend a thread on how stevie is fed 5 yards slants several times a game which boosts his numbers, but cant be relied on to do much past 20 yards? Also mention why you really discount moulds who had every tool in the book but got hurt and then too big. You say old and slow, i say big and slow. Did you see him in texas or tenn? he looked like a TE. Did you know how his leg felt in those last years? How? I know he looked about 220 -230. And who cares if he got old, everyone does, thats not a lack of skill or a determinant of how good someone was. Its how good were they when they were young that counts.

 

To best summarize SJ vs Moulds Id say this....

 

Stevie is a lover, not a fighter. Moulds was a lover and a tough mf'er.

Edited June 20, 2013 by enlightener

[NoSaint]

Agree or disagree, ill give badolbeelz credit for his arguments. I think he might be short changing EM a little but not huuugely, and he's taken the time to back up his opinions and speak intelligently on the unpopular side of the argument.

[BADOLBILZ]

I loved Moulds too, but I was a little put off by his last two seasons or so in Buffalo. It almost seemed like that monster year that he and Peerless had, during Bledsoe's first year went to his head a little. I just remeber so many times, watching the game at the bar, and getting the feeling too many times, that Moulds had become more concerned with drawing Pass Interference calls than makig catches. It just seem like he was flapping his arms and whining to the officials on nearly every pass play, sometimes when the ball was still whizzing right over his head. Maybe he was just getting old at that point...but I remember it vividly.

 

His steady decline became a steady whine to officials. It was annoying. Some star players adapt to their declining skills with savvy veteran technique. Moulds wasn't that kind of player. He Moulds always seemed to be in denial about it.

[BADOLBILZ]

Actually not. Firstly, the Bills spread the ball around quite a bit and that is indicative of that Andre Reed never caught more than 80 balls a season. Secondly, in that era, it was a big achievement to get over 100 catches. I don't believe Moulds would have increased his Catch/TD total. In fact, he was the beneficiary of being in some lousy teams. QBs like Flutie, Johnson and Bledsoe did throw to him consistently. The only underachieving year would hvae been the Todd Collins season and Alex Van Pelt Season

 

Moulds was working on his second redshirt season in 1997 so Todd Collins, BJH and AVP didn't even hinder him too much.

 

I have to admit, this is an odd choice for your "hill to die on," BADOLBEELZ. Ease up, dude -- most NFL historians (not to mention Bills fans) would disagree with you.

 

"hill to die on"?

 

As for NFL historians.....I think Mouldsy is an afterthought to most of them. I think he's remembered more like a Joe Horn than he is as one of the greats. He was better than Tim Euhus though. What did they grab a bunch of random "commons" football cards out of shoe box to put together the lineup for that radio show?

[dave mcbride]

Moulds was working on his second redshirt season in 1997 so Todd Collins, BJH and AVP didn't even hinder him too much.

 

 

 

"hill to die on"?

 

As for NFL historians.....I think Mouldsy is an afterthought to most of them. I think he's remembered more like a Joe Horn than he is as one of the greats. He was better than Tim Euhus though. What did they grab a bunch of random "commons" football cards out of shoe box to put together the lineup for that radio show?

I'm surprised you haven't tackled the stats on p. 2 of this thread, Badol.

Edited June 21, 2013 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm surprised you haven't tackled the stats on p. 2 of this thread, Badol.

 

I did. Frankly, I didn't elaborate because I am surprised at the lack of perspective in your argument. You are trying to compare Moulds ypc to those of great WCO receivers who were asked to catch dozens of short passes every year because of their system.

 

Compare him to receivers who were used mostly as intermediate and deep targets as he was. Isaac Bruce for instance AVERAGED 15ypc over like a 14 year career? Was he greater than Jerry Rice? Of course not. He just wasn't asked to catch 60-70 extended handoffs every season.

 

Like I said, Moulds was much closer to being a Joe Horn than a Jerry Rice or TO or Marvin Harrison. Horn averaged 14.5 ypc from 2000-2004. Horn was actually better than Moulds from 2000 on. Joe Horn is an afterthought in NFL receiving history, and Moulds really is as well. Moulds had one great season. I know you want to count 1999 as a great season because of his YPC being at 15 but he only caught 60 passes for chrissake.