DrDawkinstein Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Without going into too much detail, my position is that unless EJ stinks it up in camp or during preseason the job is his to lose, not win. I can't imagine EJ and Kolb performing similarly and them giving the job to Kolb -- that's not why you draft a QB in the first round. If Kolb clearly outperforms EJ in August then you have to determine if that's because EJ just needs some time to develop, or if you've made an error in your talent evaluation. Personally, I believe playing QB for a D-1 powerhouse for 2+ seasons qualifies as sufficient preparation to start in the NFL, and that's why I strongly believe EJ will be the opening day starter. As usual, what eball said. Agreed it's EJ's job to lose. But if they do go with Kolb, I wont be too worried. Not at first, at least.
3rdand12 Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 E.J. was drafted to start. Kolb was signed to a backup contract. That is what the team and fans want to see happen. But neither E.J. nor Kolb have played a game in a Bills uni. The answer to your both parts of your question will come with preseason game results. you are supposed to pick one Sir. Read the rules. : ) EJ is walking into a good situation offensively since he will have a top team of RBs to protect him and help him along. and protect him? Not sure but i think in a roundabout way i agree. Kolb still starts
Thirty Year Fan Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 TUEL for Pres in 2016!!! Don't be a Tool (Tuel) just play like one!
chris heff Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 i'm exactly inversed proportionally K -9. It's gonna be Kolb and Bills are in no rush to put EJ in to satisfy the fan base. But they also are ramping up Manuel asap. Just in case Kolb is injured or struggles mightily early. Does everyone understand that Kolb lost his job to John Skelton? Not because of injury. After Arizona traded for Kolb in 2011, he was beaten out of his job in camp and preseason by a guy from Fordam University. So after being the starter in 2011 he lost the job in 2012 and people think a rookie that started for two years at FSU can't beat this guy out.
3rdand12 Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Does everyone understand that Kolb lost his job to John Skelton? Not because of injury. After Arizona traded for Kolb in 2011, he was beaten out of his job in camp and preseason by a guy from Fordam University. I am not sure about everyone. But i am quite aware of Kevin's history and surroundings during his proffesional career.
NoSaint Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 i'm exactly inversed proportionally K -9. It's gonna be Kolb and Bills are in no rush to put EJ in to satisfy the fan base. But they also are ramping up Manuel asap. Just in case Kolb is injured or struggles mightily early. Manuel is the safe money. Since losman, how many first round qbs haven't suited up day 1? It feels like an overwhelming majority do lately. Does everyone understand that Kolb lost his job to John Skelton? Not because of injury. After Arizona traded for Kolb in 2011, he was beaten out of his job in camp and preseason by a guy from Fordam University. So after being the starter in 2011 he lost the job in 2012 and people think a rookie that started for two years at FSU can't beat this guy out. Man... John Skelton.... I'm sorry BB but it still gets me every time I hear that name.
Ralph W. Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 you are supposed to pick one Sir. Read the rules. : ) and protect him? Not sure but i think in a roundabout way i agree. Kolb still starts Fred Jackson is good at pass protection. Play action b.c of our dangerous backs is also good for the young QB.
3rdand12 Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 NS , i know the stats and it is the pressure of the NFl to get these kids up and running asap. Not necessarily neccessary IMHO in our case. But i can see that this kid in this time is going to be molded for long term success. He has something More to him. And do the Bills really need to win now or develop the product into a solid piece of the puzzle or better
....lybob Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Kolb will star,t how long depends on how reasonable the idea of being in the playoff hunt seems. . So how long Kolb stays in really depends on how long the Bills stay in the playoff race. My prediction would be Kolb starting 8-12 games then Manuel starting the last 4-8 games- overall I like the direction the Bills seem headed but last year I looked at them with my fan eye instead of my critical eye and it burned me, My fan eye likes the aggressive direction the Bills seem to be moving on both Offense and defense but my critical eye reminds me that a fast paced offense can just be quicker to three and out and that blitzes are often burned. My fan eye likes the talent brought in at WR and QB but my critical eye reminds me that with QB and WR it usually takes a couple seasons for production to match talent.
3rdand12 Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Fred Jackson is good at pass protection. Play action b.c of our dangerous backs is also good for the young QB. I agree 100% about Fred. he takes care of his guy with the best of 'em plus all the other stuff he has done. Being able to run inside and out , catch react/read screen checkdown to etc. And CJ has come a long ways in PP.Its the Oline i am most concerned about in regard to taking care of the QB for now. But you are right. I want to see the kid (EJ ) well taken care of ! Edited June 18, 2013 by 3rdand12
benderbender Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 The first part of this thread: It's June, yes, and we don't know this and that, and camp hasn't started, and pads and no pads and blah, blah, kaqeprjawpjcpaefjapeja. Define kaqeprjawpjcpaefjapeja. The common sense response is Kolb as veteran gets the 1st shot, but given his history, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Manuel to out practice him. I wouldn't be worried at all about out OL and QB protection if we hadn't let Levitre and his backup walk. Good thing is that half of the country doesn't care about Buffalo. And the other doesn't have high expectations. So if Kolb wins the starting job and screws up, the season just turns into the EJ experiment.
Ralph W. Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) I agree 100% about Fred. he takes care of his guy with the best of 'em plus all the other stuff he has done. Being able to run inside and out , catch react/read screen checkdown to etc. And CJ has come a long ways in PP. Its the Oline i am most concerned about in regard to taking care of the QB for now. But you are right. I want to see the kid (EJ ) well taken care of ! I am also a little worried about the O-Line but I am putting my faith in Marrone being a lineman that maybe it won't be bad just b.c he will know what they can/can't handle. He seems to be hands on with that area more then others. Edited June 18, 2013 by EJ3
HamSandwhich Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 OK that's just gross. But to answer the question (after flipping a coin), I think EJ is the day 1 starter. I like how he's not taking any time off - he's obviously all in and working to be the #1 right away. Much like a green thumb means you know your way around gardening, green ears means you know your way around the football fields errrr, ur or something like that. I think. Don't be a Tool (Tuel) just play like one! See my next post (a few posts from the one you quoted)
papazoid Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Kolb's incentive laden contract says EJ will be starting sooner rather than latter.
bonechiller Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 EJ - post over! They gotta find out now or draft high enough to replace him next year.
Fan in San Diego Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Without going into too much detail, my position is that unless EJ stinks it up in camp or during preseason the job is his to lose, not win. I can't imagine EJ and Kolb performing similarly and them giving the job to Kolb -- that's not why you draft a QB in the first round. If Kolb clearly outperforms EJ in August then you have to determine if that's because EJ just needs some time to develop, or if you've made an error in your talent evaluation. Personally, I believe playing QB for a D-1 powerhouse for 2+ seasons qualifies as sufficient preparation to start in the NFL, and that's why I strongly believe EJ will be the opening day starter. +1
OCinBuffalo Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 But that would be "dodging" No. Dodging is threads about the #1 O line(analytically proven) from last year completely falling apart because it loses one guy. Dodging is threads about doubting Fred Jackson, in any capacity. Dodging is threads about " Steve Johnson, ". .....when the major question at QB is the elephant, the room, the house, and the whole block. And in the past, dodging was "fire Lindell", when we had a serious QB question that nobody wanted to talk about. ........................... If no one minds, I've summarized some criteria we have so far, and let's see if we agree: 1. EJM must perform at least = to Kolb, in order to start. 2. Kolb must prove that he's better, by a lot, than the guy who got beat out by Fordham guy, in order to start. Simply being as good, or just a little better, as EJM = see rule #1. 3. There is value in letting the vet take on the Pats in week 1, and if that's how it goes, it's not that important. Alternate 3. EJM's draft value says he starts, barring obvious deficiencies in his play, and if there are, then that is important. (I would think only one of these 3s is right. But you could take away some of the conditions, or change the importance) 4. We should place our faith in this coaching staff, as they know more, and have more info than us. Now, I will add my 2: 1. EJM has to prove, in game, that he can in fact read the whole field. By that, I mean on a pass play that has 2 routs to the left, and both are covered, can he read the right side of the field, and hit that receiver. I think asking to see him do that 10x is asking too much. However, I would like to see it in multiple games, provided the conditions exist. Also, I think this is a realistic standard, as it is likely to occur fairly regularly in our 3 wide, at least, West Coast/K Gun offense. Oh, and btw, I am not making the assumption that Kolb does this, so, he has to show the same. 2. Both QBs have to show they can make all the throws. We can't lose half our playbook, like with Fitz(are you telling me Chan Gailey can't draw up a bomb?), because of lack of arm ability. Lot's of ways to do this. The most straightforward is simply to look at each throw: quality, distance, completion, WR F up, etc.
EmotionallyUnstable Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Gibran Hamdan looks like he might just sneak up on us this year...
8-8 Forever? Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 You don't draft a QB at 16th overall to sit on the bench and learn from someone of Kevin Kolb's caliber. You just don't. EJ is the starter. Probably, YES. Plus, my understanding is they wanted him well before the draft, so it isn't like it was "wow, EJ's there, we should think about taking him" .. they planned on getting him since before the combine, and traded back simply because they knew he would fall at least to 16, so they picked up another pick in the process as well. So, if he has the offense under his belt, he starts right away. Why not? Nothing to lose. Home field for first two games. No real expectations for this team this year, so this is the time if ever there was one. Just depends if he is competent in the offense by September. They will give him every chance. QB/HC/Staff all have 3 years to get it together, so lets start ASAP. Of course, if Ralph dies , its all in the crapper as a new owner will blow it all up yet again.
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