Enough dodging: who is the QB for this team/why?

[Rocky Landing]

I just want the Bills to get it right this time. If EJ is not ready for prime time yet, I would rather wait for him to get used to the speed and sophistication of the NFL. I am sure others will chime in that it is best to learn on the job, but not every QB is the same. Just the fact that he was drafted in the 1st rounder does not automatically mean he can be a day 1 starter, as most top QB picks have been recently. I hope the coaches treat EJ on his own merit and not get pressured into starting him if not fully ready.

I will trust Marrone and Hackett on this one.

This

 

I think that depends on the persons mental toughness. But I'm not sure what is really learned standing on the sidelines holding a clip board. I think you only learn anything by doing it. So EJ should start unless Kolb really stands out as the better QB.

I think this is also how you learn bad habits.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Yes, really. I remember Trent coming back from a two week lay-off from a concussion and making a diving TD into the end zone. Trent didn't start his career as Captain Checkdown. He was set up to fail in Buffalo and developed some very bad habits as a result.

 

If Marrone/Hackett are as incompetent as Jauron/Schonert, we're screwed regardless. Manuel will be in a better position than Edwards was, and if not, it means our coaches are awful and none of this matters anyway.

 

Again, Manuel doesn't seem like the kind of kid to allow a few early mistakes to derail his career, rather than utilizing his mistakes as learning experience.

[Fan in San Diego]

This

 

 

I think this is also how you learn bad habits.

 

It's like learning a golf swing, how do you get better by watching videos, you have to swing away to get better.

[ALLEN1QB]

EJ will have to light it up in preseason to get the start. Kolbs job to lose.

[Gugny]

If EJ doesn't start in Week 1, this whole offense is going to be a Kolb job.

[Big C]

It's like learning a golf swing, how do you get better by watching videos, you have to swing away to get better.

 

But you don't enter a competition if you don't have your swing down.

 

This is often the difference between being good and being great. Whether you're learning a position, an instrument, whatever, you need to start slow with the basics. If EJ's footwork, for instance, is not a fluid, second-nature thing, he shouldn't go out there. It's possible to play well without mastering the basics, but after time it will get to you. And it's obviously harder to correct mechanics after they've become habits.

[K-9]

Even if I believed that you watched those first four games, that would be a delusional statement.

 

 

Terrible idea. We didn't draft Manuel because he was a phenomenal talent. We drafted him because it was a position of need and we wanted to find someone who could develop into a franchise QB. Kolb should be a stopgap. Unless we don't care about winning games this season (and I'm pretty sure Marrone and co. does), we shouldn't push Manuel out onto the field until he is ready. Putting him out there too soon would be setting him up to fail, and possibly damaging his future potential.

 

Depends entirely on the mental makeup of the player. If Manuel is a fragile psyche like Losman let's say, then we're screwed no matter when he gets in. But if he has the temperment of a good QB, like Kelly let's say, then he is better served learning through playing.

 

EDIT: Apologies to Fan in San Diego. Didn't see your post on the previous page in time. Needless to say, I agree.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited June 20, 2013 by K-9

[kickedface]

i think its going to work like every stop kolb has made in his career. he's going to start for the first couple games, then get injured and lose the starting job to EJ. i would be fine with this. though i'm going to be fine with whichever direction they go at qb. i'm much more excited about the defense this year.

[Rocky Landing]

i think its going to work like every stop kolb has made in his career. he's going to start for the first couple games, then get injured and lose the starting job to EJ. i would be fine with this. though i'm going to be fine with whichever direction they go at qb. i'm much more excited about the defense this year.

I agree with this. But Kolb should last quite a bit longer than he did in Arizona. We have a much better O-line. I believe that Marrone is looking at winning week one- OF COURSE he is! And, in week one, with a new coaching staff, and a new system, there are too many variables as it is. Marrone knows that Kolb can go in and play with consistency and handle the pressure. He beat the Pats in week two of last season. It's a lot easier to come up with a game plan if you know how your QB is going to perform. I think that the Bills should settle in to their new system and coaching staff before throwing a project rookie on the field. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see EJ starting until week six against the Bengals or later.

[Bufcomments]

But you don't enter a competition if you don't have your swing down.

 

This is often the difference between being good and being great. Whether you're learning a position, an instrument, whatever, you need to start slow with the basics. If EJ's footwork, for instance, is not a fluid, second-nature thing, he shouldn't go out there. It's possible to play well without mastering the basics, but after time it will get to you. And it's obviously harder to correct mechanics after they've become habits.

Payton Manning was 3-13 his first year ,13-3 his second. You think he didnt learn something off his first year??

 

Drew Brees won 10 games his first 3 yrs with the Chargers. I think he learned something along the way.

 

I'm not even going to talk about RG3 and Andrew Luck.

 

Point being , let the kid learn the hard way. If he is even a slight improvement over Fitz we at least go 8-8. We have the running game to support him. We have a decent TE he can lean on. Plus Stevie.

 

It's EJ's job to lose IMO.

[br1ju]

Whisenhunt was the coach when they made the trade for Kolb. Do you think Whisenhunt had no input? Why would Arizona trade for a guy that doesn't fit the system the head coach wants to play?

 

Whisenhunt absolutely had input, the question was to what degree? Graves (their GM at the time) had majority control over player personnel and at the time Arizona had run through a gamut of QB's after Warner retired and needed some stability. There was a lot of pressure to deliver because fans were getting restless. Enter Kolb who had just lost his job to Vick and was the hottest QB in the market. The need along with Kolb's demand precipitated to a deal. You have to remember the circumstances as well, due to the strike shortened off-season there was essentially no time for coaches, and GMs to really sit and discuss, look at enough game tape and do their due dilligence on Kolb. He was obtained a couple weeks prior to their first pre-season game which further put him at a disadvantage to learn a completely different system. At the end of the day Whisenhunt did want Kolb to a certain degree and felt he was their best option at that point, but the problem was that he tried fitting a square peg through a circle.

[Big C]

Payton Manning was 3-13 his first year ,13-3 his second. You think he didnt learn something off his first year??

 

Drew Brees won 10 games his first 3 yrs with the Chargers. I think he learned something along the way.

 

I'm not even going to talk about RG3 and Andrew Luck.

 

Point being , let the kid learn the hard way. If he is even a slight improvement over Fitz we at least go 8-8. We have the running game to support him. We have a decent TE he can lean on. Plus Stevie.

 

It's EJ's job to lose IMO.

 

I'm not saying I don't think EJ is ready or shouldn't start. What I'm saying is if there are any glaring errors in his mechanics that we may consider not starting him right away. Kaepernick needed work on his so he didn't start right away, but he's looking good now. Manning is known for his ability to read defenses and audible and what have you. That is only something that comes with experience. Of course, in this era it seems that rookie QBs are better equipped to succeed right away. I'm hoping EJ continues the trend of guys like Luck, Wilson and RGIII.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Big C

[Dragonborn10]

Kolb starts the first 14 games at which point they are 6-8 and eliminated from the playoffs with a devastating road loss at Jacksonville. EJ era begins week 15 at home against the fish. EJ plays great and eliminates Miami from the playoffs.

[Rocky Landing]

Payton Manning was 3-13 his first year ,13-3 his second. You think he didnt learn something off his first year??

 

Drew Brees won 10 games his first 3 yrs with the Chargers. I think he learned something along the way.

 

I'm not even going to talk about RG3 and Andrew Luck.

 

Point being , let the kid learn the hard way. If he is even a slight improvement over Fitz we at least go 8-8. We have the running game to support him. We have a decent TE he can lean on. Plus Stevie.

 

It's EJ's job to lose IMO.

I was kind of hoping (and I think Doug Marrone would agree with me) to do a little better than 3-13.

 

Even so, you're comparing apples to oranges. Manning, Brees, Luck, and RGIII all started in established systems. We've got a new coaching staff and a new system. Also, all four of those QBs were stellar prospects when they were drafted. This years QB class was widely reported as exceptionally weak, and Manuel wasn't even considered to be in the top three. Now, after a handful of practices without pads, people on here think he's the next Big Ben, and that "it's EJ's job to lose" without having proved ANYTHING in a real game.

 

I don't buy it. Kolb beat the Pats in week two, last season, with one of the worst O-lines in the league. That included a rushing touchdown. I don't know about you, but I would like to win the opener against the Pats. I'm hoping that Marrone will have a game plan- I'm sure he will. But, coming up with one, and using it, will be a lot easier with a known commodity behind center instead of an unproven, project rookie.

[OCinBuffalo]

This really isn't all that hard to figure out. Unless EJ rips it up in pre-season or the vet stinks it up, the vet starts until hurt or until he plays himself right off the field. Then EJ starts.

If it wasn't that hard to figure out, I doubt we'd have 6 pages already. Re-read the thread. This ain't even close to "figured out", from a fan perspective.

This is so ridiculous.

 

It's wreaks of "Agenda". Stinky, buddy, real stinky.

Ahh.

 

And now we see reason #4 of "Why did you start this thread, in June?" Might as well get the agendas, and the "I was wrong about Biron being better than Miller, and rather than admit that (most importantly: to myself), I am going to spend the next 7 years saying Miller sucks, even when he wins the Vezina"-type people identified early on.

Whisenhunt was the coach when they made the trade for Kolb. Do you think Whisenhunt had no input? Why would Arizona trade for a guy that doesn't fit the system the head coach wants to play?

Why did Wizenhut run down the field screaming on TD play he didn't want run? People make stupid plans, or overestimate their abilities to make change, the right change, all the time. Just because somebody has a plan, doesn't make it a good one, nor is it indicative of their ability to carry it out.

 

We could answer your question with: Wisenhut actually believed that he could bend Kolb to his plan, because of his belief in his coaching ability, and his own "awesomeness" in general. Not much of a stretch, given the apparent significant subscription to the idea that identity, or celebrity == ability.

I agree with this entirely. Give him the keys and let him take it out. Marrone and Co. have already hitched their wagon to the kid and while I get that a new staff needs to impress with wins and those may be more likely with a veteran starting out, it doesn't do Manuel any good to sit on the bench. Stick with him through hell or high water the first couple years. Let him know the staff has his back while it continues to build the team around him. The only time Kolb should go into a game is either in mop up duty or if Manuel gets hurt. We were all patient with Kelly while he was showing flashes of greatness while also screwing the pooch early on. And he even he had a couple years of pro ball under his belt. And if the veteran players don't like it, get rid of them, much as they did when Kelly arrived, too.

 

I'm just not convinced a new coaching staff would have that kind of security and patience.

 

GO BILLS!!!

So many forget this.

 

I do not.

 

I don't because growing up with Kelly as the QB. My dad was the opposite of patient. It got to the point where he was forced to watch the game outside, through the windows of our house, regardless of weather.

 

Watching my dad outside, standing in the rain, seeing him yelling and cussing(and being relieved that this time, it wasn't directed at me), having to keep relighting his smoke, but not actually hearing any of what he was saying...is a bit of hilarity I will always cherish.

 

Yes, The Senator has nothing on my mom when it comes to unabashed homerism, or class. I mean, it's not like she didn't make him a plate, and deliver it to him outside. It's similar to how she treats Boston fans. You are allowed in the house normally, but when the game is on, you go outside, along with the dog.

[K-9]

If it wasn't that hard to figure out, I doubt we'd have 6 pages already. Re-read the thread. This ain't even close to "figured out", from a fan perspective.

 

Ahh.

 

And now we see reason #4 of "Why did you start this thread, in June?" Might as well get the agendas, and the "I was wrong about Biron being better than Miller, and rather than admit that (most importantly: to myself), I am going to spend the next 7 years saying Miller sucks, even when he wins the Vezina"-type people identified early on.

 

Why did Wizenhut run down the field screaming on TD play he didn't want run? People make stupid plans, or overestimate their abilities to make change, the right change, all the time. Just because somebody has a plan, doesn't make it a good one, nor is it indicative of their ability to carry it out.

 

We could answer your question with: Wisenhut actually believed that he could bend Kolb to his plan, because of his belief in his coaching ability, and his own "awesomeness" in general. Not much of a stretch, given the apparent significant subscription to the idea that identity, or celebrity == ability.

 

So many forget this.

 

I do not.

 

I don't because growing up with Kelly as the QB. My dad was the opposite of patient. It got to the point where he was forced to watch the game outside, through the windows of our house, regardless of weather.

 

Watching my dad outside, standing in the rain, seeing him yelling and cussing(and being relieved that this time, it wasn't directed at me), having to keep relighting his smoke, but not actually hearing any of what he was saying...is a bit of hilarity I will always cherish.

 

Yes, The Senator has nothing on my mom when it comes to unabashed homerism, or class. I mean, it's not like she didn't make him a plate, and deliver it to him outside. It's similar to how she treats Boston fans. You are allowed in the house normally, but when the game is on, you go outside, along with the dog.

 

Great post all around. Who among us hasn't gone outside and cussed while they were on the tube breaking our hearts? Wet cigarettes indeed.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Gugny]

Three words: Soccer and Pajamas.

[Dorkington]

Even if EJ doesn't start the season as the starter, he's our QB simply because we drafted him in the first round this year. He's our guy for the future for at least 3 years, probably.

[machine gun kelly]

To the original post, you can't make either guy your guy until you see how they play in real games in the pre-season. I have no problem about watching both guys for three games and then naming a starter. You want each one to play with the first stringers and see how they perform.

 

That's the smart move.

[K-9]

Three words: Soccer and Pajamas.

 

Two words: Manning thumb.

 

GO BILLS!!!