Enough dodging: who is the QB for this team/why?

[br1ju]

Good post. But why do I continue to see Newton and Griffin being the benchmark for greatness? Newton has played two season; one very impressive and one horrible. Griffin has played one season and - I realize I'm in the minority - I don't think he showed any true greatness. Yes, he was a rookie and shouldn't be expected to show greatness. But let's let these guys - along with Luck, Wilson, Kaepernick, etc. - actually show some consistent, high-level, football, before we start saying we want EJ to be like them.

 

That said, EJ Manuel should be named the starter. He and Kolb should be told, simultaneously, that EJ is the starter for all 16 games unless he's injured. Let the kid take his lumps. Kolb took his and he never showed any signs that he was a long-term starter in the NFL. He had his chance. He failed.

 

Actually, I wasn't referring to Cam or RG's greatness but rather their talent level at this point. Those 2 QB's are undoubtedly so talented that they can find relative success early on. I don't think that's the case with EJ. He has talent as mentioned earlier but not at the level of the aforementioned QBs. Not yet at least. However for comparisons sake, EJ's skill set is similar to the two in that they all have a good arm and all are quick elusive QB's which is why I drew the comparisons. Who knows, EJ might do better than both of them in the long run but my money says he won't put stats like those QB's did their first year. His developmental curve is more along the lines of Aaron Rodgers and as a Bills fan, one could only be excited about the future when that time comes. If they do decide to let him take his lumps I will be front row waiting to see how he responds and again, New England is a good starting point.

 

As for Kolb, it would be hard pressed to say he never showed signs to play well in the NFL. From my understanding, his career ended in Philadelphia because Vick had a renaissance during what was suppose to be Kolb's official first year as a starter. I don't think any rookie would've been able to supplant Vick in 2010. While in Arizona, the debate was well, I already mentioned in my earlier post so no need to further elaborate. The point is Kolb is the at the very least serviceable but with the potential to be similar to Brees. If the latter is the case the Bills would have a trade asset to strengthen the team in the near future and with EJ getting at least a year to absorb the NFL it would only be beneficial.

[Rocky Landing]

I don’t know, but sometimes I think Bills fans are downright delusional. Before we easily traded down to acquire Manuel, he was generally considered to be around the fourth or fifth best QB in a remarkably weak QB class. Just about any description of him, pre-draft, included words like, “inconsistent,” and “project.” And now, after a handful of practices without pads, he’s the next Big Ben. Clearly. He has potential. I was happy with the pick and would have been quite disappointed with Geno Smith. But, throwing a project rookie into the fire week one against the Pats (as a 7.5 point underdog, currently) can have its own damaging affects. It will be much healthier to bench Kolb for Manuel than the other way around.

 

Furthermore, I can’t imagine that Marrone, a first time NFL HC is going to rely on a project rookie in his very first game against a team like the Pats. Anyone who doesn’t think that Marrone wants to win his first game is crazy. Kolb has his flaws, but he is a known quantity, which makes things like play-calling a lot easier. Even if EJ lights it up in game three of the preseason (unlikely), starting him against the Pats is a higher risk.

 

IMO- start Kolb.

[Ralph W.]

Very simple if EJ can't beat out Kolb for starter then we might be in trouble b.c beating Kolb doesn't seem hard to do, just look at the last team he was with. So count on EJ starting.

[Doc]

I don’t know, but sometimes I think Bills fans are downright delusional. Before we easily traded down to acquire Manuel, he was generally considered to be around the fourth or fifth best QB in a remarkably weak QB class. Just about any description of him, pre-draft, included words like, “inconsistent,” and “project.” And now, after a handful of practices without pads, he’s the next Big Ben. Clearly. He has potential. I was happy with the pick and would have been quite disappointed with Geno Smith. But, throwing a project rookie into the fire week one against the Pats (as a 7.5 point underdog, currently) can have its own damaging affects. It will be much healthier to bench Kolb for Manuel than the other way around.

 

Furthermore, I can’t imagine that Marrone, a first time NFL HC is going to rely on a project rookie in his very first game against a team like the Pats. Anyone who doesn’t think that Marrone wants to win his first game is crazy. Kolb has his flaws, but he is a known quantity, which makes things like play-calling a lot easier. Even if EJ lights it up in game three of the preseason (unlikely), starting him against the Pats is a higher risk.

 

IMO- start Kolb.

The idea isn't to just win the first game, but to develop a franchise QB (not that I think Kolb necessarily gives the Bills the best chance to win that game). Marrone and co. liked EJ enough to take him in the 1st, and it's their first year in Buffalo, so better to get the future started now. If EJ gets damaged playing the Pats, he's probably not the right guy for the job.

[Rocky Landing]

Very simple if EJ can't beat out Kolb for starter then we might be in trouble b.c beating Kolb doesn't seem hard to do, just look at the last team he was with. So count on EJ starting.

I believe that Skelton started the season opener last year for the Cardinals and was benched in the second half for Kolb who brought them back to win. Kolb started and won the next three games including a victory over the Patriots in week two. After that, he played injured before being replaced by Skelton.

 

Kolb's biggest problem in Arizona was staying healthy. The Cardinal's front line was atrocious (as was Philly's while Kolb was starting). But, he played well in Philly and Arizona when he was healthy. He has an accurate arm, a decent deep ball, a quick throw, and great work ethic. And, most importantly, he has veteran experience. As I mentioned in an earlier post, he is a known commodity. In other words, when he goes out on the field in a real game, the coaches know what to expect from him. That's going to be an important asset for a new coaching staff, and a new system.

 

Safe to say Kolb will be healthy at the beginning of the season. With a healthy Kolb, Marrone will not likely see any reason to rush EJ out onto the field. I'd be surprised to see EJ start before week five against the Browns.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Rocky Landing

[Leelee Phoenix]

Probably Kolb. Then when Brady beats us again, Manuel will eventually be forced to start due to public pressure.

[Ralph W.]

 

I believe that Skelton started the season opener last year for the Cardinals and was benched in the second half for Kolb who brought them back to win. Kolb started and won the next three games including a victory over the Patriots in week two. After that, he played injured before being replaced by Skelton.

 

Kolb's biggest problem in Arizona was staying healthy. The Cardinal's front line was atrocious (as was Philly's while Kolb was starting). But, he played well in Philly and Arizona when he was healthy. He has an accurate arm, a decent deep ball, a quick throw, and great work ethic. And, most importantly, he has veteran experience. As I mentioned in an earlier post, he is a known commodity. In other words, when he goes out on the field in a real game, the coaches know what to expect from him. That's going to be an important asset for a new coaching staff, and a new system.

 

Safe to say Kolb will be healthy at the beginning of the season. With a healthy Kolb, Marrone will not likely see any reason to rush EJ out onto the field. I'd be surprised to see EJ start before week five against the Browns.

If you watched those games it wasn't really about Kolb those first 4 weeks. He didn't do much actually.

[maddenboy]

EJ will be the starter. EJ should be the starter.

 

Whether its week 1 or 3, EJ should start and we should never look back.

 

Look back at his highlight tapes. He is smart. He gets the ball to receivers in position to make plays.

 

When he becomes a running qb, he understands how/when to slide or duck out of bounds, or when the time is right for the occasional "I'm 6'4" and 225 and you're not" type of play.

 

Kolb is a shellshocked deer in headlights, whose dream is to earn NFL backup money for as long as he can. Think its funny? Ask Chris Palmer (brother of Carson) whether he has earned more than the rest of us will earn in our entire lives. ("earned?"). An important part of that formula is to continue to talk like you're a starter, like you have swagger, etc. Yawn.

 

The coaches will install plays for EJ and bring him along, precisely because he is so good at decision-making, and because Kolb is so good at cashing paychecks without ever - quite - being good enuf to start, but still making sure to be better than the 3rd string qb.

 

Ahem. Ryan Fitzpatrick. Cough cough.

Edited June 20, 2013 by maddenboy

[eball]

Probably Kolb. Then when Brady beats us again, Manuel will eventually be forced to start due to public pressure.

 

This sort of thing happens rarely, if ever, in the NFL. Nothing about the way Marrone has conducted himself suggests he gives a damn about "public pressure" -- he'll play the guy he believes gives them the best opportunity to win. That said, draft picks win all ties.

[billsrcursed]

I don’t know, but sometimes I think Bills fans are downright delusional. Before we easily traded down to acquire Manuel, he was generally considered to be around the fourth or fifth best QB in a remarkably weak QB class. Just about any description of him, pre-draft, included words like, “inconsistent,” and “project.” And now, after a handful of practices without pads, he’s the next Big Ben. Clearly. He has potential. I was happy with the pick and would have been quite disappointed with Geno Smith. But, throwing a project rookie into the fire week one against the Pats (as a 7.5 point underdog, currently) can have its own damaging affects. It will be much healthier to bench Kolb for Manuel than the other way around.

 

Furthermore, I can’t imagine that Marrone, a first time NFL HC is going to rely on a project rookie in his very first game against a team like the Pats. Anyone who doesn’t think that Marrone wants to win his first game is crazy. Kolb has his flaws, but he is a known quantity, which makes things like play-calling a lot easier. Even if EJ lights it up in game three of the preseason (unlikely), starting him against the Pats is a higher risk.

 

IMO- start Kolb.

 

This is so ridiculous.

 

It's wreaks of "Agenda". Stinky, buddy, real stinky.

[eball]

If you watched those games it wasn't really about Kolb those first 4 weeks. He didn't do much actually.

 

True. He played one VERY good game against Philly, and the rest was rather blah. Plus, he took 17 sacks over two games against Miami and St. Louis, followed by 5 against the Bills before being knocked out.

 

For the season he completed slightly less than 60% of his passes for a 6.4 YPA, with 8 TDs against 3 INTs. His QB rating was a respectable 86.1, largely because he didn't throw a bunch of picks -- sacks and fumbles don't count against a QB using that formula. He went down an astounding 27 times in essentially five games, and lost two fumbles.

 

Again, I just don't see EJ not starting in Week One unless he looks lost out there in August.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

It has to be EJ.

 

We finally have someone who can pick up first downs with their feet.

 

It sucked last year watching 3rd and 5+ and knowing we had to throw it and that the defense knew it too.

 

EJ finally gives us a dual threat

 

CBF

[chris heff]

 

 

 

I kept up with Arizona last year and saw how the whole QB drama unfolded. Based on pre-season performances they were pretty much even from a statistics persepective. Unfortunately, Whisenhunt was the most incompetent and indecisive coach I have ever seen and totally mishandled QB's which eventually lead to his departure. He did the same with Leinart and Kurt Warner. Anyways, Kolb and Skelton were 2 QB's with vastly different skill sets with Skelton being more suited for what Whiz was trying to do which is why Skelton was chosen. Needless to say, he got hurt in the first game only to be replaced by Kolb who led the Cardinals to 4-0.The biggest thing about Kolb in Arizona was that his skill set did not match what Whisenhunt was trying to do. It was maddening to watch Cardinals football. At one point Kolb did a no huddle play which resulted in a TD. Whisenhunt was seen screaming down the sideline to call off the play it seems before they scored. I honestly didn't think they were on the same page. He even alluded to Whisenhunt being set in his way at one point. Kurt Warner commented that Kolb has what it takes to be a starter in Arizona over Skelton. He knew how the offense worked and admitted that Kolb needed some time to learn the offense since he came in after the strike shortened season and was injured most of his first year. In retrospect, during the hurry up offense Kolb was pretty much spot on. The cardinals employed it when they were trying to play catch up and 3 things generally happened. Kolb would make a completion, get sacked or he would run away from pressure only to get sacked due to not only having a clueless coach but having the worst o-line in the NFL. From watching the games it was easy to see he enjoyed the no-huddle and was efficient at it when he wasn't eating grass. Whether it translates here it remains to be seen.

 

EJ is athletic and talented no doubt. He is no Cam Newton or RGIII so it will take some time for him to adjust. With those guys there was more of a consensus on their abilities. Not so much with EJ. No one will know how he will respond come game time. If he starts, the Patriots would be a good litmus test.

Whisenhunt was the coach when they made the trade for Kolb. Do you think Whisenhunt had no input? Why would Arizona trade for a guy that doesn't fit the system the head coach wants to play?

[Fan in Chicago]

 

Again, I just don't see EJ not starting in Week One unless he looks lost out there in August.

 

I just want the Bills to get it right this time. If EJ is not ready for prime time yet, I would rather wait for him to get used to the speed and sophistication of the NFL. I am sure others will chime in that it is best to learn on the job, but not every QB is the same. Just the fact that he was drafted in the 1st rounder does not automatically mean he can be a day 1 starter, as most top QB picks have been recently. I hope the coaches treat EJ on his own merit and not get pressured into starting him if not fully ready.

I will trust Marrone and Hackett on this one.

[Kellyto83TD]

EJ starts. We drafted him first round, he is smart, huge, great arm, mobile. Let the kid learn OJT baby!

[K-9]

EJ starts. We drafted him first round, he is smart, huge, great arm, mobile. Let the kid learn OJT baby!

 

I agree with this entirely. Give him the keys and let him take it out. Marrone and Co. have already hitched their wagon to the kid and while I get that a new staff needs to impress with wins and those may be more likely with a veteran starting out, it doesn't do Manuel any good to sit on the bench. Stick with him through hell or high water the first couple years. Let him know the staff has his back while it continues to build the team around him. The only time Kolb should go into a game is either in mop up duty or if Manuel gets hurt. We were all patient with Kelly while he was showing flashes of greatness while also screwing the pooch early on. And he even he had a couple years of pro ball under his belt. And if the veteran players don't like it, get rid of them, much as they did when Kelly arrived, too.

 

I'm just not convinced a new coaching staff would have that kind of security and patience.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Rocky Landing]

If you watched those games it wasn't really about Kolb those first 4 weeks. He didn't do much actually.

Even if I believed that you watched those first four games, that would be a delusional statement.

 

EJ starts. We drafted him first round, he is smart, huge, great arm, mobile. Let the kid learn OJT baby!

Terrible idea. We didn't draft Manuel because he was a phenomenal talent. We drafted him because it was a position of need and we wanted to find someone who could develop into a franchise QB. Kolb should be a stopgap. Unless we don't care about winning games this season (and I'm pretty sure Marrone and co. does), we shouldn't push Manuel out onto the field until he is ready. Putting him out there too soon would be setting him up to fail, and possibly damaging his future potential.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Even if I believed that you watched those first four games, that would be a delusional statement.

 

 

Terrible idea. We didn't draft Manuel because he was a phenomenal talent. We drafted him because it was a position of need and we wanted to find someone who could develop into a franchise QB. Kolb should be a stopgap. Unless we don't care about winning games this season (and I'm pretty sure Marrone and co. does), we shouldn't push Manuel out onto the field until he is ready. Putting him out there too soon would be setting him up to fail, and possibly damaging his future potential.

 

Really? I think going out there and making mistakes would only help Manuel. He doesn't seem like a mentally fragile Trent Edwards type of kid.

Edited June 20, 2013 by J-Gun Boone

[Rocky Landing]

Really? I think going out there and making mistakes would only help Manuel. He doesn't seem like a mentally fragile Trent Edwards type of kid.

Yes, really. I remember Trent coming back from a two week lay-off from a concussion and making a diving TD into the end zone. Trent didn't start his career as Captain Checkdown. He was set up to fail in Buffalo and developed some very bad habits as a result.

[Fan in San Diego]

Even if I believed that you watched those first four games, that would be a delusional statement.

 

 

Terrible idea. We didn't draft Manuel because he was a phenomenal talent. We drafted him because it was a position of need and we wanted to find someone who could develop into a franchise QB. Kolb should be a stopgap. Unless we don't care about winning games this season (and I'm pretty sure Marrone and co. does), we shouldn't push Manuel out onto the field until he is ready. Putting him out there too soon would be setting him up to fail, and possibly damaging his future potential.

 

I think that depends on the persons mental toughness. But I'm not sure what is really learned standing on the sidelines holding a clip board. I think you only learn anything by doing it. So EJ should start unless Kolb really stands out as the better QB.