GaryPinC Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I think the days of hugely popular team sports is drawing to an end. Sports seem to reflect the attitude of the larger society, and many studies (and my own observations) suggest that kids casually play less than they used to (the streets are empty of kids on their own wherever I go), are much more into their own world, fostered by technology, so that there is less impetus to join up in person with others. The people who get them out of the house playing soccer or lacrosse or hockey or baseball inevitable are the parents. Without the parents, I think most kids would be perfectly happy to hang around the house with their iPhones, their XBox and a Netflix stream, interacting via Twitter and Facebook. As these kids become parents, I wonder if they'll be dragging their children around to participate in team sports. It seems to me, and maybe you too, that the "sports" that most interest kids today are much more individualistic than team, whether its surfing, skateboarding, mountain biking, snowboarding, et al. And that they do much more on their own initiative than from adult encouragement. BTW, no surprise that we have a huge Latino immigrant population in Southern California, and naturally, soccer is the big sport in those communities. For years now, lots of really fine baseball fields have been more used for soccer than baseball. To the casual observer (me), it looks just like anywhere else in the US where kids play team sports: lots of moms and dads, aunts and uncles, etc. I have also noticed that as they get older, there are far, far fewer Latino kids playing soccer. My guess is that this is tracking the decline you see in interest in team sports by the American kids. A second BTW: a lot of kids playing high school football now come from immigrant Latino families. So, I guess to sum it up, my prediction is that all team sports are facing both a declining pool of American participants along with a concurrent decline in a fan base. I don't see them ever totally disappearing. But I think the days of the great "Mass Audience" are already passing away as has happened with the mass audience for individual television programs, entertainers popular across all sectors of the population, and the narrowing of the newspaper and magazine businesses from "general interest" to much more specific and exclusive readerships. As the Brad Pitt characters says in a recent movie, "If you live in America now, you're on your own." I disagree with you because as a parent of a 7 and 10 year old I have a different perspective. Sports are turning much more into a regimented development, squeezing out the spontaneous street and casual games of years ago. Gordio's post on page 3 also gives a pretty good perspective on what sports is like for kids these days. I'm 43 and when I was a kid neighborhood contests along with recreational league games were the norm. We played a lot of different sports in the neighborhood, 1 maybe 2 in a league. There were also some travel teams but that was about it. Kids sports these days are much more structured with recreational leagues, step up to select or travel teams, and finally pay $1000+/year to have your kid on a club team. Coaching at the rec league generally sucks and the rec leagues have taken the place of the neighborhood contests, just for fun with little pressure to win. Select/travel puts the emphasis to win with better coaching but not quite the commitment of a club team. Club teams pay their coaches and are very rigorous on the kids, not much about fun at this level. Any decent coach at the rec league level generally goes to select or club. Parents shuttle their kids to 1-6 sports and it's very taxing. Parents hire personal coaches (hitting, pitching) or go to sports camps if their kid has an interest. Sports these days is all about having your kids experience them in an organized rec league and develop them up the ladder if they show the interest and ability. Youth sports is becoming a money industry and will only get bigger as many parents such as myself feel that sports help develop kids for real life. There are even track teams and meets for grade school kids! I limit my kids to one sport at a time so they can play 3 different ones in a year, but other parents can be much more demanding. Coaches of travel and club teams all tell the parents that all the high school players came through their system and if you want your kid to play high school/college you'd better sign up. As a parent, it's great to be able to find a large number of organized sports for your child to try. It's also good to know I can find the organizations and expertise to develop my child if they really have an interest/ability in a particular sport. But it is sad that a lot of the spontaneity, curiosity, and bonding that comes from kids teaching each other sports on the street has been mostly lost. But make no mistake: youth sports has become a business that will only keep expanding for now and I highly doubt that pro sports will be dying even in the next 40 years.
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Lol Lem Barney already apologized for saying this. Guess he realized how crazy what he said was. Edited June 17, 2013 by EJ3
CodeMonkey Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I disagree with you because as a parent of a 7 and 10 year old I have a different perspective. Sports are turning much more into a regimented development, squeezing out the spontaneous street and casual games of years ago. Gordio's post on page 3 also gives a pretty good perspective on what sports is like for kids these days. I'm 43 and when I was a kid neighborhood contests along with recreational league games were the norm. We played a lot of different sports in the neighborhood, 1 maybe 2 in a league. There were also some travel teams but that was about it. Kids sports these days are much more structured with recreational leagues, step up to select or travel teams, and finally pay $1000+/year to have your kid on a club team. Coaching at the rec league generally sucks and the rec leagues have taken the place of the neighborhood contests, just for fun with little pressure to win. Select/travel puts the emphasis to win with better coaching but not quite the commitment of a club team. Club teams pay their coaches and are very rigorous on the kids, not much about fun at this level. Any decent coach at the rec league level generally goes to select or club. Parents shuttle their kids to 1-6 sports and it's very taxing. Parents hire personal coaches (hitting, pitching) or go to sports camps if their kid has an interest. Sports these days is all about having your kids experience them in an organized rec league and develop them up the ladder if they show the interest and ability. Youth sports is becoming a money industry and will only get bigger as many parents such as myself feel that sports help develop kids for real life. There are even track teams and meets for grade school kids! I limit my kids to one sport at a time so they can play 3 different ones in a year, but other parents can be much more demanding. Coaches of travel and club teams all tell the parents that all the high school players came through their system and if you want your kid to play high school/college you'd better sign up. As a parent, it's great to be able to find a large number of organized sports for your child to try. It's also good to know I can find the organizations and expertise to develop my child if they really have an interest/ability in a particular sport. But it is sad that a lot of the spontaneity, curiosity, and bonding that comes from kids teaching each other sports on the street has been mostly lost. But make no mistake: youth sports has become a business that will only keep expanding for now and I highly doubt that pro sports will be dying even in the next 40 years. Very well stated. My 6th grade daughter has a gift when it comes to basketball. The high school coaches noticed her at the start of this years travel season, the JV coach has been working with her individually and the varsity coach invited her to play on his 8/9/10 grade AAU (similar to the club teams you mention) this past Spring. Now that she is playing at this level doors are opening and I am seeing numerous opportunities for her that I never even knew existed before. It is very easy to get caught up in it all and forget that she is still only 12 years old. We are limiting her summer basketball to *only* 2 camps and 2 summer leagues. It is amazing how much is out there. I agree with you that kids sports have changed over the years. The top kids programs have cuts as young as 4th or even 3rd grade now. If you don't start them playing practically at birth any more they are at a big disadvantage. And coaches tend to discourage participation in other sports if your child wants to play at an advanced level in their sport, as early as 4th or 5th grade. My daughter has been skiing with her mother from about the time she could stand. She loves it. You should see the looks on the basketball coaches faces when that subject comes up ... priceless Kids, here at least, still play pick up sports. The local basketball courts are generally well used, kids also play street hockey, lacrosse, and soccer for example. We used to play street football when I was a kid but I don't see kids in my neighborhood at least playing that. I think if there are enough kids of roughly the same age in an area, they are still likely to play pick up sports of some kind. The trick a lot of the time is getting them together and having some place to play.
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Don't think people understand how popular football is in the south and inner city. All that matters for NFL talent. Most of these suburb kids will never make it out of highschool football. Edited June 17, 2013 by EJ3
CodeMonkey Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Don't think people understand how popular football is in the south and inner city. In the south it is insane. I was in a town in Texas some years back and people on Friday told me if I wanted to eat dinner that night I would probably need to go to the high school stadium (and yes indeed it was a stadium). Not much else was open during a home game. It is crazy popular down south.
thewildrabbit Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I highly doubt the most popular sport in America is going to go away anytime soon. Two sports are even more physically damaging then Football are hockey and boxing. With the latter having a primary goal of beating the hell out of your opponent. Racing is a deadly sport where a crash can cause death, and to not only the driver. I don't see the USA changing its ways in 10-20 years, Sorry Lem.
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I highly doubt the most popular sport in America is going to go away anytime soon. Two sports are even more physically damaging then Football are hockey and boxing. With the latter having a primary goal of beating the hell out of your opponent. Racing is a deadly sport where a crash can cause death, and to not only the driver. I don't see the USA changing its ways in 10-20 years, Sorry Lem. Lem already retracted and apologized for saying this lol
Mr. WEO Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Lol Lem Barney already apologized for saying this. Guess he realized how crazy what he said was. Lem already retracted and apologized for saying this lol No he didn't. "Barney, an NFL Hall of Fame cornerback with the Detroit Lions, stood by his words, but said that the camp setting may not have been appropriate." http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/6/17/4437566/lem-barney-apology-nfl-unsafe-future
AKA Bigdog Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 well they'll be doing bills fans a favor then i suppose
Mr. WEO Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 It's hard to take what an elder says about future of something since the elderly are the least to see change in the future. Oh my...this has sig written all through it.
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Oh my...this has sig written all through it. Sure go ahead...
Mr. WEO Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Sure go ahead... Wait...I apologize, Miss Utah. http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/06/17/miss-utah-bombs-during-pageant-qa/2430093/
Gordio Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 A sign of a good father I agree that is how it is today. Not to say it will be that way in the future. I think it will change. Of course my crystal ball is not always accurate. Thanks, I appreciate that.
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Wait...I apologize, Miss Utah. http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2013/06/17/miss-utah-bombs-during-pageant-qa/2430093/ I accept your apology.
B-Large Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I heard Schopp and the Bulldog talk about this, and now I see it on the front page of espn.com. I do have to wonder what is going to happen with this lawsuit and also with insurance companies insuring high school and little league teams, etc. It's going to be something big financially that might bring the decline of football. I'd like to what others think: http://espn.go.com/c...all-10-20-years I don't understand the issue here. If you run into 250 pound human beings full speed and get up seeing stars, year after year, why would you expect there not to be long-term health consequences with that? Its just like smokers who got lung ailments and sued tabacco companies... did they honestly believe that inhaling smoke in lungs was long-term a safe thing to do? If the issue is the NFL knew the long-term study evidence and buried it, then maybe I see the point. But people love football, and the players have a chance to make huge bucks and never have to worry about money again if they play it right... they know the risks, they follow the money.... its not hurting fans or other is society...
GaryPinC Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Very well stated. My 6th grade daughter has a gift when it comes to basketball. The high school coaches noticed her at the start of this years travel season, the JV coach has been working with her individually and the varsity coach invited her to play on his 8/9/10 grade AAU (similar to the club teams you mention) this past Spring. Now that she is playing at this level doors are opening and I am seeing numerous opportunities for her that I never even knew existed before. It is very easy to get caught up in it all and forget that she is still only 12 years old. We are limiting her summer basketball to *only* 2 camps and 2 summer leagues. It is amazing how much is out there. I agree with you that kids sports have changed over the years. The top kids programs have cuts as young as 4th or even 3rd grade now. If you don't start them playing practically at birth any more they are at a big disadvantage. And coaches tend to discourage participation in other sports if your child wants to play at an advanced level in their sport, as early as 4th or 5th grade. My daughter has been skiing with her mother from about the time she could stand. She loves it. You should see the looks on the basketball coaches faces when that subject comes up ... priceless Kids, here at least, still play pick up sports. The local basketball courts are generally well used, kids also play street hockey, lacrosse, and soccer for example. We used to play street football when I was a kid but I don't see kids in my neighborhood at least playing that. I think if there are enough kids of roughly the same age in an area, they are still likely to play pick up sports of some kind. The trick a lot of the time is getting them together and having some place to play. Well stated yourself in filling out the rest of the story. Congrats on your daughter and basketball. My girl is 10 and athletic at a lot of things so I get a lot of eyerolls also . My son is 7 and is a total middle linebacker, if he gets the football he gives it to someone else and then proceeds to tackle them. Just signed him up for tackle football, never bothered with flag because he would have been too upset not being allowed to hit anyone. But kids deserve to have experiences and choices so I ignore the coaches/eyerolls.
bbb Posted June 17, 2013 Author Posted June 17, 2013 Minor sport? Don't get outside the US much I gather Uh, we're talking about the US. Pro soccer has been around for several decades in the US and it still has no significant following. Showing English Premier games will change nothing, as has the World Cup telecasts. Soccer is a kid's participation sport and nothing more for the vast majority of Americans. It's perfect for the kids who can't play baseball. The spotlight is never on you so you can suck under the radar. I agree that is how it is today. Not to say it will be that way in the future. I think it will change. Of course my crystal ball is not always accurate. They've been saying this since I was a kid in the 70s. Soccer is America's "fastest growing sport" for 40 years now. Just wait till all these kids playing become adults! - Those kids are middle age now!
CodeMonkey Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Well stated yourself in filling out the rest of the story. Congrats on your daughter and basketball. My girl is 10 and athletic at a lot of things so I get a lot of eyerolls also . My son is 7 and is a total middle linebacker, if he gets the football he gives it to someone else and then proceeds to tackle them. Just signed him up for tackle football, never bothered with flag because he would have been too upset not being allowed to hit anyone. But kids deserve to have experiences and choices so I ignore the coaches/eyerolls. Yeah, sometimes you have to remember that they are still kids and they probably want to do more than one sport when they are that young! My daughter is not playing fall ball and is instead going to try cross country. This gives her a nice break and at the same time gets her very fit for the school basketball season Tell your son to hurry up and age. The Bills need a good tough MLB They've been saying this since I was a kid in the 70s. Soccer is America's "fastest growing sport" for 40 years now. Just wait till all these kids playing become adults! - Those kids are middle age now! Agreed. Culture change is almost always a slow process. But with soccer in the US it seems to be glacial. Edited June 17, 2013 by CodeMonkey
GaryPinC Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I don't understand the issue here. If you run into 250 pound human beings full speed and get up seeing stars, year after year, why would you expect there not to be long-term health consequences with that? Its just like smokers who got lung ailments and sued tabacco companies... did they honestly believe that inhaling smoke in lungs was long-term a safe thing to do? If the issue is the NFL knew the long-term study evidence and buried it, then maybe I see the point. But people love football, and the players have a chance to make huge bucks and never have to worry about money again if they play it right... they know the risks, they follow the money.... its not hurting fans or other is society... I think the issue will be if/when the NFL knew of the danger of concussions and covered it up, as the tobacco industry did with their own internal studies. When did the NFL have conclusive evidence and when did they first start warning and taking safety steps? From my reading the true danger isn't the concussion but the vulnerability of the brain to permanent injury while still recovering from a concussion. It seems to me this evidence hasn't been known for very long (5, maybe 10 years?). I just don't think the players from 10+ years ago will get an award here, but if the NFL covered stuff up then maybe.
yungmack Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 I disagree with you because as a parent of a 7 and 10 year old I have a different perspective. Sports are turning much more into a regimented development, squeezing out the spontaneous street and casual games of years ago. Gordio's post on page 3 also gives a pretty good perspective on what sports is like for kids these days. I'm 43 and when I was a kid neighborhood contests along with recreational league games were the norm. We played a lot of different sports in the neighborhood, 1 maybe 2 in a league. There were also some travel teams but that was about it. Kids sports these days are much more structured with recreational leagues, step up to select or travel teams, and finally pay $1000+/year to have your kid on a club team. Coaching at the rec league generally sucks and the rec leagues have taken the place of the neighborhood contests, just for fun with little pressure to win. Select/travel puts the emphasis to win with better coaching but not quite the commitment of a club team. Club teams pay their coaches and are very rigorous on the kids, not much about fun at this level. Any decent coach at the rec league level generally goes to select or club. Parents shuttle their kids to 1-6 sports and it's very taxing. Parents hire personal coaches (hitting, pitching) or go to sports camps if their kid has an interest. Sports these days is all about having your kids experience them in an organized rec league and develop them up the ladder if they show the interest and ability. Youth sports is becoming a money industry and will only get bigger as many parents such as myself feel that sports help develop kids for real life. There are even track teams and meets for grade school kids! I limit my kids to one sport at a time so they can play 3 different ones in a year, but other parents can be much more demanding. Coaches of travel and club teams all tell the parents that all the high school players came through their system and if you want your kid to play high school/college you'd better sign up. As a parent, it's great to be able to find a large number of organized sports for your child to try. It's also good to know I can find the organizations and expertise to develop my child if they really have an interest/ability in a particular sport. But it is sad that a lot of the spontaneity, curiosity, and bonding that comes from kids teaching each other sports on the street has been mostly lost. But make no mistake: youth sports has become a business that will only keep expanding for now and I highly doubt that pro sports will be dying even in the next 40 years. I don't think you disagree with me at all. In fact you make my case that kids aren't playing games on their own, and that the sports they play are driven by their parents enthusiasm. Which is why I think participation in those sports is in decline because it's an artificial situation in which it is the PARENTS enthusiasm that's driving it. Watch those same kids and see how many of them are still playing in high school, and how often they choose, on their own, to watch the major teams on television. Those are surer signs of where things will be in another generation. Let me also reiterate that I don't think those sports are in any danger of disappearing altogether. Hell, some people still play royal court tennis, squash and hurling.
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