mary owen Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 The more I think about what is being said about JPL needing more time to understand the "complexities" of this Offense, the more ridiculous it sounds to me. Think about Ben R in Pitt. Aren't they running pretty much the same offense? I doubt Wisenhunt changed much from what MM was doing. BR got thrust into the starting role, so he was even less prepared to grasp the Offense. The Bills put this O in because it was "easier" for QB's and WR's. Fewer reads, fewer options, etc. (That's another thing that re-affirms my feeling on Bledsoe the Vet being hopeless....he should have kicked major a$$ in this O...but that's a topic that has it's own thread space all over this board ) I realise that Pitt's O-line is better than ours, but JP can't be that far behind BR, or is he? After all, they keep saying he needs time to learn the Offense, nothing about the actual play of the Line. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 The bigger issue, and I'm not an insider but this has been metioned in most of the articles I've read, is his mechanics. I hope that JP can comprehend the offense, and yes there is a learning curve to everything but by this point if he's not getting it I would be alarmed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 but JP can't be that far behind BR, or is he? 201803[/snapback] I think he probably is. Remember, Ben is doing things that no other rookie QB has ever done. It's not that JP is necessarily stupid or slow, it could be just that Ben is a once in a generation type talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 They simplified the offense for BenR. They aren't asking him to put up 300+ yards passing. Next year the offense will be built for BenR's strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 As soon as our OLine plays as well as theirs, your premise will be more likely. The stat I pay the most attention to with BR is number of attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 absolutely... Whether or not the Bills want to admit it or not, the offense was "dumbed down because of Bledsoe's limitations... not because the o line couldn't protect him. I know of no O-line on the planet that can protect Bledsoe. Granted, the O line has some problems... OK, but let's be honest here, if Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, or Donavan McNabb were standing behind center, no one would be bitching about the poor job that the offensive line was doing... same group of O-linemen, different QB and different results. So, keeping the same dumbed down offense and inserting JP into the lineup will make a difference. The stupid sacks and holding penalties that Bledsoe causes by not getting rid of the ball on time causes the offense to constantly be in long yardage situations and will be reduced with JP in there because he can make plays with his legs. The interception issue between JP in Bledsoe will probably be about the same because of JP's inexperience. JP's not used to facing NFL defenses, but then again, NFL defenses haven't faced him, so they really don't have a "book" on him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneida Lake Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 As soon as our OLine plays as well as theirs, your premise will be more likely. The stat I pay the most attention to with BR is number of attempts. 201835[/snapback] Pitt is generally regarded as the best offensive line in football. This works for the running game and obviously in the QB protection scheme. Working behind that offensive line with a Staley/Bettis duo of backs would help any rookie QB. I lean towards Bledsoe as the starter next year. But, I would like to see a competition in camp for the QB spot. My opinion is that Bledsoe would win such a competition, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 What do we know at this point about BR and JPL? BR: 1) He is a good football player. 2) He lasted for the better part of a season. 3) He was selected ahead of JPL. JPL: 1) The Bills traded 1st round picks and lost 7 spots for him. They also forfeited a 2 and a 5. 2) Someone brushed up against him and he was practically crippled for the better part of a season. He still counted against the salary cap. What did I omit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Tom Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Losman will be hurt by week 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeRay Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Pitt is generally regarded as the best offensive line in football. NOT!! I defy anyone to find a better O line in football than the Chiefs have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Losman will be hurt by week 4. 201867[/snapback] And that is if he is NOT the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 NOT!! I defy anyone to find a better O line in football than the Chiefs have. 201871[/snapback] Are the chiefs as deep as Pitt? They lost Tait at RT last year, and I dont know who they put there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJBrown Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I am a Bledsoe fan. I am a JP fan.....Im other words I am a BILLS fan. The debate on the quality and potential of our QB position has merit and there are a lot of good points on both sides...but one thing annoys the piss out of me: WHY DOES EVERYONE ASSUME JP IS FRAGILE???????? He does not have a history of that, even playing behind arguably the worst line in major college football. He had one FREAK injury, it could have happened to anyone and some of us are labeling him the next RJ???? I hope he does well when he gets his chance but lets give him a break on the china doll label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I am a Bledsoe fan. I am a JP fan.....Im other words I am a BILLS fan. The debate on the quality and potential of our QB position has merit and there are a lot of good points on both sides...but one thing annoys the piss out of me: WHY DOES EVERYONE ASSUME JP IS FRAGILE???????? He does not have a history of that, even playing behind arguably the worst line in major college football. He had one FREAK injury, it could have happened to anyone and some of us are labeling him the next RJ???? I hope he does well when he gets his chance but lets give him a break on the china doll label. 201966[/snapback] When a player costs the Bills cap space, costs a fortune to obtain in terms of draft picks, then bumps into someone and is all but an invalid for months, there is reason to be disappointed. Wait....posters are likening him to Brett favre in his prime! Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJBrown Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 When a player costs the Bills cap space, costs a fortune to obtain in terms of draft picks, then bumps into someone and is all but an invalid for months, there is reason to be disappointed. Wait....posters are likening him to Brett favre in his prime! Never mind. 201984[/snapback] Bill, injuries are unpredictable and an unfortunate part of the game...his was a freak occurance.....landed on his leg in a weird way.....if he had a history ala RJ of this type of thing then I'd agree with you.... As far as cap/cost to obtain that is unrelated to his physical state.... For the record I am not trying to argue with you, i actually agree with 90% of your posts..just not this one! Go Bills 2005.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think it would be a big mistake in trying to understand the game, predict future Losman performance or to set expectations for JPs performance using RoboQBs performance as a yardstick. First off using one player as a yardstick for another is difficult and quite likely to be the wrong approach anyway as individuals are individuals and quite different. Comparisons are legit and what sports is all about anyway, but know that these comparisons are going to start off as somewhat tortured and get worse the more detail and specificity you require. Speed of development is an example where these comparisons fall apart. Eric Moulds simply sucked in first year production and it paled next to that of a WE drafted that year such as Eddie Kennison. Would you make any legitimate claims about their quality as players or who is better based on a comparison of the first year stats of these two? Second, if you are looking to compare production between players, as Steve Young was saying this weekend, pro football is the ultimate team game in many ways. The production of an individual player is so tied to the production of his teammates that mrely comparing one year's performance to another is going to resyult in some oddities and inaccuracies. In the end comparisons of careers versus careers is so much more relevant and accurate for drawing conclusions about a particular player it ain't even funny. Third, RoboQB has really experienced some extraordinary production of W/L compared to all players at QB in their first year. A comparison of the two is find if you are looking for evidence that JP is not the best QB ever, but it falls a part a bit after that. It would be like insisting that any b-ball player who did not put up Michael Jordan numbers was some how a bust and even worst you decide to use MJ's best year as a yardstick. Why not use Philip Rivers or Eli Manning as your yardstick, this is just as legit as using RoboQB. JP has some specific limitations and benefits that are his case and the best analysis strikes me as an exploration of that rather than comparing him to someone who has done well and saying that he has been developed improperly or is a bust or comparing him to someone who sucks and declaring him a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 What do we know at this point about BR and JPL? BR: 1) He is a good football player. 2) He lasted for the better part of a season. 3) He was selected ahead of JPL. JPL: 1) The Bills traded 1st round picks and lost 7 spots for him. They also forfeited a 2 and a 5. 2) Someone brushed up against him and he was practically crippled for the better part of a season. He still counted against the salary cap. What did I omit? 201861[/snapback] Uh oh, here comes 'Negative Bill' rearing his ugly head again......... Bill, Dan Marino ruptured his achilles tendon simply by dropping back after the snap......nobody even touched him. Sometimes freak things happen. I think you're being a bit overdramatic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think a point that nobody really seems to bring up about JP and Big Ben is the impact that Ben's success likely has had on JPs mentality. JP went out of his way before the draft to tell anyone who would listen that he was as good of a prospect as any of the other big three. JP's college years were marked by a playmaking ability, despite having very little talent around him - most notably a horrible offensive line. The guy has a huge chip on his shoulder and his upside is huge. Whether or not he ever puts it all together and develops into a top pro remains to be seen. But any Bills fan who is not excited about this guy is missing the boat. Chances are, you're the same type of person who called TD stupid for picking McGahee or drafting Lee Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary owen Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think ....King James Version.........Dallas Phone Book.....declaring him a god. 202018[/snapback] i was only speaking of the learning of this specific style of offense (Pittsburgh conection), not the actual play of BR and JPL. JPL has yet to have the opp that BR has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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