Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 And to think all this Tebow debacle started when a HC reached for him. Poor kid should have been a 4+ round pick.
Garranimal Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Anyone see when you say Tebow is a bad QB people bring up his college career "has nothing to do with NFL lol" and one pass in a playoff game. It reminds me of when Fitz did well for a few games and he got a huge contract. so how exactly is it that you think EJ will be good?
Gene Frenkle Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 so how exactly is it that you think EJ will be good? I guarantee that if EJ is not good he will not have legions of fans across the country zealously supporting him regardless of which team he plays for or how badly he plays. How any of you can be so in love with a former Jet and current frigging *Patriot is beyond me. This is a Bills fan site and you are supposedly Bills fans. Time to reevaluate.
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 so how exactly is it that you think EJ will be good? How did this become a EJ thread? What does this have to do with the conversations? Please elaborate...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 Why is it every time when somebody defends DF you can count on 2 things: DF's won-loss record and a comparison to RJ. The comparison to RJ is irrelevant, meaningless, and proves nothing. Ok, DF was better than a crappy QB. That does automatically propel DF into "Good" or "Great" status. He was a mediocre QB in the NFL. I won't bother too much with the main thrust of your post which was a criticism of his 3 INT performance. Any QB who's had any kind of career in the NFL has had similar games. Was Flutie overly-sensitive and did he sometimes pass blame to others? Yes. Marino was an a-hole too. We weren't talking about personalities. The reason the won-loss record and Rob Johnson always comes up is because every time someone mentions Flutie's won-loss record, it's explained away with the "great defense" rebuttal. The point is that you need more than a great defense to win games and that there was another QB who had the benefit of that same great defense and he was very good at losing games. As to your last sentence, we'll continue to disagree. Flutie was 38-28 as an NFL starter, playing for mostly bad teams, before and after his prime. He wasn't pretty to watch and he didn't put up big stats but like the Celtics famed 6th man KC Jones, when he was in the game the team played better. Flutie was not mediocre and I'm done on the subject.
Cowgirl Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 I guarantee that if EJ is not good he will not have legions of fans across the country zealously supporting him regardless of which team he plays for or how badly he plays. How any of you can be so in love with a former Jet and current frigging *Patriot is beyond me. This is a Bills fan site and you are supposedly Bills fans. Time to reevaluate. Dude! Take a breath! The thread is about the Pats signing Tebow.....so folks are commenting about the guy. I don't think anyone is 'in love with him' or guilty of losin' their Bills fan card. You're funny.............. Anyone see when you say Tebow is a bad QB people bring up his college career "has nothing to do with NFL lol" and one pass in a playoff game. It reminds me of when Fitz did well for a few games and he got a huge contract. Of course people bring up his College career 'cause it demonstrates what he's capable of. He has only played about one season in the NFL and yeah, he (and his team) won a Playoff game. I'm just sayin' no one knows what he's capable of in the NFL because he hasn't really played since his brief time in Denver! Geez............. Flutie definitely had "it" and I don't think that can be taught. bbb, EXACTLY!!! Some guys just have 'it'!! You're so right!! I swear, John Elway was the only guy in third and long that I KNEW without a doubt, would pick up a first down!! Once it was 3rd and 26, in the snow, and Elway threw a bomb and they moved the chains!! He was automatic!! Man, he was fun to watch!! Flutie totally had 'it'!! My Mom is not nor has she ever been an NFL fan but when I would ask her to watch a play Doug Flutie made, she would rush to the TV!! I think that says something!! A person who wasn't even a football fan could appreciate Doug Flutie!!
Ralph W. Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 Guess everyone should be happy. Look at what the Tebow Curse is doing to the Pats. Gronk Surgery (Yea I know was inevitable but funny to add in) Kraft loses ring Hernandez "kills" a man (not official... Yet) Kraft starts hanging out with Jay-z Never have the Pays had so much bad publicity before. Welcome Tebow Curse fester in that organization.
Rob's House Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) We'll have to agree to disagree then. The Chargers added LaDanian Tomlinson, a HOF'er, in that 2001 draft and he by himself out-rushed the entire 2000 Chargers' team by 183 yards and 2 TD's. He also caught 59 passes which was 2nd most on the team. I'd say he was a large factor in those 4 extra wins. And the Bills' 2001 team was a mess, after even more talent (than after 1999) started to leave, and Cowart went down. And you start playing a dangerous game when you qualify wins and losses. Case in point, RJ left the field with the lead in the Titans playoff game, only to see a (bogus) KR, lose the game. Perhaps Tebow should take Flutie's cue and go the CFL route for awhile, and then try and make a comeback? No offense Doc, but you're way off on this one. You sound like you're desperately clinging to your irrational hatred of Flutie. Go back & look over that Charger unit. That team absolutely sucked. The offensive line was a joke, and their #1 receiver was Curtis Conway (who?). Hell, Tomlinson only averaged something like 3.5 ypc behind that line, and IIRC the receiving corps led the league in drops that year. It was only Flutie's ability to improvise that kept them competitive that year. And as far as W's and L's, I agree with you to a point, but Flutie has a sizable sample with a consistent history of coming through in the clutch. I prefer a guy who plays ball control & pulls it out in the clutch to a guy who puts up numbers but loses. And stop using the "RJ was winning when he left the game" line. That was 1 game and if that pos had played even at a mediocre level the game should have been out of reach (I guarantee Flutie doesn't take that safety). The best thing about RJ is that he serves as a contrast to help people to see & appreciate what Flutie brought to the table. A part of me thinks the Bills organization (and half the fans for that matter) deserve the Flutie curse for not appreciating him and casting him aside like a used rubber. Edited June 21, 2013 by Rob's House
Doc Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 No offense Doc, but you're way off on this one. You sound like you're desperately clinging to your irrational hatred of Flutie. Go back & look over that Charger unit. That team absolutely sucked. The offensive line was a joke, and their #1 receiver was Curtis Conway (who?). Hell, Tomlinson only averaged something like 3.5 ypc behind that line, and IIRC the receiving corps led the league in drops that year. It was only Flutie's ability to improvise that kept them competitive that year. And as far as W's and L's, I agree with you to a point, but Flutie has a sizable sample with a consistent history of coming through in the clutch. I prefer a guy who plays ball control & pulls it out in the clutch to a guy who puts up numbers but loses. And stop using the "RJ was winning when he left the game" line. That was 1 game and if that pos had played even at a mediocre level the game should have been out of reach (I guarantee Flutie doesn't take that safety). The best thing about RJ is that he serves as a contrast to help people to see & appreciate what Flutie brought to the table. A part of me thinks the Bills organization (and half the fans for that matter) deserve the Flutie curse for not appreciating him and casting him aside like a used rubber. Look Rob, making excuses for one player and not the other is disingenuous at best. Flutie won with the Bills because they had a good team. The Chargers did not, therefore he lost.
Rob's House Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Look Rob, making excuses for one player and not the other is disingenuous at best. Flutie won with the Bills because they had a good team. The Chargers did not, therefore he lost. I agree with your second and third sentences, but I don't understand the first. Edited June 21, 2013 by Rob's House
Doc Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 I agree with your second and third sentences, but I don't understand the first. Okay, for example, you were talking about Flutie's OL with the Chargers. In that Titans playoff game, RJ was getting killed behind an injury-riddled OL if you recall. And again left the field with the lead, only to see the ST's lose it. Would more points have helped? Of course. Would Flutie have gotten them? Based on the way he was playing in the second half of 1999, doubtful, but still possible.
Rob's House Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Okay, for example, you were talking about Flutie's OL with the Chargers. In that Titans playoff game, RJ was getting killed behind an injury-riddled OL if you recall. And again left the field with the lead, only to see the ST's lose it. Would more points have helped? Of course. Would Flutie have gotten them? Based on the way he was playing in the second half of 1999, doubtful, but still possible. Flutie played behind the same oline that was getting RJ destroyed and went from a sack every 4 +/- drop backs to a sack every 15+ drop backs. That comparison was between 2 guys on the same team. The reference to the Chargers line was just part of pointing out the entire offensive unit was devoid of talent, yet Flutie still led them to great improvements from their previous two seasons, and there was a drop off when Brees came in. Since RJ never played for the Chargers I don't see the inconsistency.
Doc Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Flutie played behind the same oline that was getting RJ destroyed and went from a sack every 4 +/- drop backs to a sack every 15+ drop backs. That comparison was between 2 guys on the same team. The reference to the Chargers line was just part of pointing out the entire offensive unit was devoid of talent, yet Flutie still led them to great improvements from their previous two seasons, and there was a drop off when Brees came in. Since RJ never played for the Chargers I don't see the inconsistency. You're making an argument that Flutie was better than RJ. I'd agree. But you're also making excuses for his poor record in SD, when I'm trying to say that he wasn't going to have sustained success, and the same goes for Tebow. No other team wanted to give Tebow a chance except for the Pats, and they haven't been able to develop a QB at all, so they're no experts.
12Kachy Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Who is Tebow??? I want to hear more about the Hernandez. I guess the Pats found a way to ensure Tebow will not be a distraction.
Cowgirl Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Rob's House.......I agree with everything you're saying. I love when that happens! I especially like this line: ''I prefer a guy who plays ball control & pulls it out in the clutch to a guy who puts up numbers but loses'' My first thought when reading that was Drew Bledsoe!! He put up numbers...lots of bright shiny numbers but in the clutch he was worthless. I spent most of Drew's career screaming 'Get rid of the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!' He was maddening! He held onto the ball longer than anyone I can remember then he'd get sacked....over and over again........Ugh........... When Flutie lined up behind Center, I just believed he could win. More importantly, Doug believed! He was confident and fearless. Man, watching him was a treat! Edited June 21, 2013 by Cowgirl
Rob's House Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Rob's House.......I agree with everything you're saying. I love when that happens! I especially like this line: ''I prefer a guy who plays ball control & pulls it out in the clutch to a guy who puts up numbers but loses'' My first thought when reading that was Drew Bledsoe!! He put up numbers...lots of bright shiny numbers but in the clutch he was worthless. I spent most of Drew's career screaming 'Get rid of the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!' He was maddening! He held onto the ball longer than anyone I can remember then he'd get sacked....over and over again........Ugh........... When Flutie lined up behind Center, I just believed he could win. More importantly, Doug believed! He was confident and fearless. Man, watching him was a treat!
CSBill Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 When Flutie lined up behind Center, I just believed he could win. More importantly, Doug believed! He was confident and fearless. Man, watching him was a treat! yuuup! the last time it was fun to be a BIlls fan
Tcali Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Or, more likely his limitations were never going to allow him to be a good player in the NFL, but his skill set matched the Canadian game extremely well which allowed him to dominate up there. he was a good player in the nfl--and woulda probably been a very good one if he had the chance. Of course you are correct about his game/skill set being taylor made for the CFL. So great CFL player...good to very good NFL player. Look Rob, making excuses for one player and not the other is disingenuous at best. Flutie won with the Bills because they had a good team. The Chargers did not, therefore he lost. of course has nothing to do with the fact that he was 40 yrs old w the chargers
Cowgirl Posted June 22, 2013 Posted June 22, 2013 yuuup! the last time it was fun to be a BIlls fan Totally agree CS!! My husband and I fought about Doug Flutie the very first day we met over 13 years ago!! It was our first argument and we continue to have the same argument at least twice a year! I call it our 'Bi-annual Flutie Fight'!! He hates Doug Flutie and I LOVE Doug so it gets ugly!!! It's so futile to even discuss but somehow.....we get into out of the blue............sigh............. But for me, A Cowboys fan, I never took notice of the Bills until Doug Flutie started playing. I became an NFL fan during the 1994 Superbowl. The Bills last one...........sorry! I started watching the Bills when Doug took over at QB. I learned about him via 'Sportscenter' and then started watching the Bills. I met my husband in 2000 so, as I say, I became a 'Bills fan by proxy.' I pull hard for them and the only NFL game I've ever attended was the Cincy game with the HUGE comeback win!! I had the best time!! Anyway, my husband HATES the Cowboys........I kinda understand that.....I love my Boys first and foremost but I pull for the Buffalo Bills and cry when they suffer those unbelievable gut wrenching losses!!! My guy just tanks...............it's bleak. I always have a fall back team to cheer for, even though they haven't done that well for years, I still love Romo and watching them play. But my guy lives and dies with the Bills. I swear they have aged him!!!! They break his heart every year but he loves them, as do all Bills fans. But I agree with you........the last time they were 'fun' to watch was when Flutie was behind Center. Since then..........ooooohhhhh some agonizing seasons!!! For me personally, Trent Edwards was by far the WORST QB I've seen for the Bills since DF. He was unwatchable!!! I was thrilled when they cut him. The QB position remains a huge question mark to this day. I have no idea what to expect this season. But I'm very nervous.......... Kevin Kolb???? Ugh................ GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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